Just in Time

[Soberphobia]

Originally Posted by Axil

So if only 1/3rd are willing human shields (essentially Hamas combatants), what is the excuse of the other 2/3rds staying there and jeopardizing their families.

And there is a stark contrast between making sense of the death of a child by believing they are with God, and believing they were martyred.



Partially responsible? It's not only what Hamas expected it's what Hamas intended, the deaths of Palestinian children is the best result Hamas can hope for, as it aids them in vilifying Israel. Israel took the time to drop leaflets letting people know they needed to get the ***k out or be in harms way. Explain to me how Israel bears any responsibility for the children killed there? It seems to me the blame is shared between Hamas and the parents who decided to keep their children in a war zone.

Israel bears responsibility because they dropped bombs on kids? Those bombs are Israeli bombs that Israel dropped - what an absurd twist of logic to wholy blame the parents of dead children for this situation. Some parents have no choice but to stay in Gaza - its not as if you can up and move from country to country at will, especially if you have no money.

Look I think Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, but I also think that about the Palestinians, and whatever way you look at it Israel was formed on what used to be Palestine, and since Israel was formed it has been gobbling up as much of the rest of Palestine that it can get its hands on. The list of Jewish crimes against the Palestinians is a long one and to describe them as vermin or whatever as some posters have above falls into the same trap the Jews themselves suffered during the run up to World War Two in Germany. How tragically ironic it is that just generations ago the Jews were being treated in a somewhat similar manner to how they are treating the Palestinians now. All we need next is Palestinians being fed into gas ovens and the circle will be complete.

[Axil]

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

The same can be said about Israel.

I would have moved. A desert just isn't worth being killed over by goat herders.

But then they'd lose the wall to bang their heads on.

If i had the means i would move out of Israel too. However where exactly are they supposed to go? Every surrounding country hates Israel. It's a hell of a lot easier for a family in Gaza to get into Egypt. To get your family out of Israel into a safer place, you need plane tickets.

Also let's not pretend that killing civilians that are standing next to rocket launchers is the same as launching rockets randomly into a civilian population. It's just not the same.

Lastly, it's the Palestinian families that are at far greater risk. I grabbed this from an article posted 3 hours ago

Growing civilian toll

Overall, the offensive that began Wednesday killed 100 Palestinians, including 53 civilians, and wounded some 840 people, including 225 children, Gaza heath official Ashraf al-Kidra said.

On the Israeli side, three civilians have died from Palestinian rocket fire and dozens have been wounded. A rocket-defence system has intercepted hundreds of rockets bound for populated areas.

Google says there are 1,657,155 people living in Gaza. And 7,765,700 living in Israel. That means a civilian in Gaza is 156+ times more likely to be killed in Gaza than in Israel ( (100+/1,657,155) / (3/7,765,700) ).

I don't understand how you can equate the two.

[Ruby2]

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

Israel bears responsibility because they dropped bombs on kids? Those bombs are Israeli bombs that Israel dropped - what an absurd twist of logic to wholy blame the parents of dead children for this situation. Some parents have no choice but to stay in Gaza - its not as if you can up and move from country to country at will, especially if you have no money.

Look I think Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, but I also think that about the Palestinians, and whatever way you look at it Israel was formed on what used to be Palestine, and since Israel was formed it has been gobbling up as much of the rest of Palestine that it can get its hands on. The list of Jewish crimes against the Palestinians is a long one and to describe them as vermin or whatever as some posters have above falls into the same trap the Jews themselves suffered during the run up to World War Two in Germany. How tragically ironic it is that just generations ago the Jews were being treated in a somewhat similar manner to how they are treating the Palestinians now. All we need next is Palestinians being fed into gas ovens and the circle will be complete.

Over react much?

Gimme a break.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

Give me a break. The Palestinians bring all of their problems onto themselves. Jerusalem has been a majority Jewish city going back as far as the early 1800's. When Hertzel and the Zionists started moving back there in the late 1800 there were less than 200,000 people living on the land in total. Among them were Jews Christians and Muslims. Most of what you call Palestinians were migrants from Egypt and other neighboring countries that went to work for Jewish settlers there in the late 1800's. Arafat himself was born in Cairo. Spare me your moral relativism. The children dead in your photograph have their parents and political leaders to blame for their deaths. The Palestinians have the chance at peace every day. The Israelis want it. They want to exist in a peaceful country. You and your ilk are the problem. Referring to Israel as occupied land is exactly the problem with the Palestinian point of view. They should accept that Israel isn't going away. They will never succeed in eradicating the land of the Jewish majority. Only when they come to accept that fact will they be ready for a real peace. In the meantime they can suffer the consequences of their actions and the actions of their freely elected Hamas government.

I commend you for going to Gaza to do your mission work. I suggest that now is a good time to go back there and help out. They are going to need you there.

The Israelis don't want peace at all, though compulsory military service might have a tendency to do that to a society. They voted for a murderous, chauvinist right-wing government, they support them overwhelmingly, and they knew just what they were getting into - and yes, Hamas won clean elections as well, the Palestinians aren't much better. The problem is that the normal people on both sides have come to hate each other enough to vote for monsters who want to keep the war going for as long as possible. If there is a real solution, it will come from either the United States or the Israeli left, not from the likes of Netanyahu.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...same-side.html

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

Israel was formed on what used to be Palestine, and since Israel was formed it has been gobbling up as much of the rest of Palestine that it can get its hands on.

Ummmm... Not even close...

[PlumberKhan]

Originally Posted by Axil

If i had the means i would move out of Israel too. However where exactly are they supposed to go?

Don't care.

Stop killing each other over pieces of the ground.

It's dumb. The rest of the world is tired of the crap.


Sent from my 8.6 acre property with 4 bedroom house with waterfront views and low utility costs because of the gas well on my property using fireworks...

[DDNYjets]

Sooner or later the reset button will be pressed. Hoping Israel presses it first and sends those savages to the afterlife.

[adb280z]

Originally Posted by Axil

If i had the means i would move out of Israel too. However where exactly are they supposed to go? Every surrounding country hates Israel. It's a hell of a lot easier for a family in Gaza to get into Egypt. To get your family out of Israel into a safer place, you need plane tickets.
.

Invite them all to move to the US, cut off a tiny piece of a state like Montana, name it New Israel and call it the 51st state.

[sunmou]

Every year, the United States gives 3.5 billion in aid to Israel, in addition to
whatever loan agreements (which will later be forgiven). When Regan was in
office, some loans were withheld, because the Israeli government does
whatever they want because they know they have the political cover in this
country. After the loans were finally released the United States, the America
Tax player had to pay the "interest" on this loans, for the duration they were
withheld. The United States also gives aid to Egypt and Jordan, so that they
play nice, don't rock the boat, and help the Israeli government play prison guard. Reading many of the posts I wonder if some of the posters are just
mill informed, zombies, or have the megaphone app. Keep fighting the good fight. Israel will either go the way of South Africa, or they will commit genocide.
Regardless, the population demographics will come into play in 30 years, if Israel does not commit genocide, secular Israeli's will not be thrilled when the country majority population is "Arab" and Orthodox Jews (who I would hope by then are not on the dole and chasing people down the street for wearing shorts). Good luck and god bless.

[Soberphobia]

Originally Posted by AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite

Ummmm... Not even close...

[Soberphobia]

Originally Posted by Ruby2

Over react much?

Gimme a break.

If you think there is much of a difference between the way the Palestinians are being currently treated and the way the Jewish population of Germany was treated from around 1931-37, you are sadly mistaken.

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

Where are Egypt, Syria and Jordan... Or are they Palestine in your eyes...

What is Palestine...

Why do they have a right to the land over others...

Who determined that right...

You live in a box, clearly...

[21st Amendment]

While there are differences, like most Catholics from Northern Ireland I'm pretty sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, but that's not why I decided to post in here.

I really don't understand the political dynamics here in the U.S on this issue. Why is it that the American Republican party are so aligned with Israel? And why do American Jews largely support Democrats.

[shakin318]

Hmmm, gee, what happened in the past few weeks that emboldened Hamas to start shooting rockets into Israel?

[Ruby2]

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

If you think there is much of a difference between the way the Palestinians are being currently treated and the way the Jewish population of Germany was treated from around 1931-37, you are sadly mistaken.

I can't even respond to this, it is just too absurd.

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

Originally Posted by Ruby2

I can't even respond to this, it is just too absurd.

+1

I stopped reading the post I quoted too early apparently...

[Soberphobia]

Originally Posted by AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite

Where are Egypt, Syria and Jordan... Or are they Palestine in your eyes...

What is Palestine...

Why do they have a right to the land over others...

Who determined that right...

You live in a box, clearly...

So obviously you are saying the Jews have a mandate to take over Palestine? Because the Palestinians can move elsewhere?

You could easily make an argument that the Israelis could move elsewhere or is it acceptable to you for the Palestinians to have their land taken just because its Israel and just because they have some sort of mandate written in a thousands year old religious book?

Look, I think the Jews have a right to their own homeland, but since that's been granted they've taken it upon themselves to absorb as much of Palestine as possible.

[Soberphobia]

Originally Posted by Ruby2

I can't even respond to this, it is just too absurd.

If you knew anything about history of the Reich, especially through Richard J Evans superlative histories, I don't really think you would be saying that - there isn't really that much difference in that specific time period up until 1937.

But anyway, regardless don't let my specific opinion on that deter you from addressing some of the other issues raised in the thread.

[Axil]

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

Israel bears responsibility because they dropped bombs on kids? Those bombs are Israeli bombs that Israel dropped - what an absurd twist of logic to wholy blame the parents of dead children for this situation. Some parents have no choice but to stay in Gaza - its not as if you can up and move from country to country at will, especially if you have no money.

Israel dropped pamphlets over the homes those children resided in first telling the residents to leave before they were destroyed. Yes, i believe the parents and Hamas are solely to blame for the lives of children lost in those areas. The Palestinians absolutely have a choice to leave the area, poor or not.

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

Look I think Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, but I also think that about the Palestinians, and whatever way you look at it Israel was formed on what used to be Palestine, and since Israel was formed it has been gobbling up as much of the rest of Palestine that it can get its hands on.

Please explain to me how the Palestinian action can be construed as defensive.

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

The list of Jewish crimes against the Palestinians is a long one

Rattle off the top 5 for me, because the common refrain seems to be.
"Well, we want Israel to defend itself, but if they kill any 'civilians' in the process it's a war crime"

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

and to describe them as vermin or whatever as some posters have above falls into the same trap the Jews themselves suffered during the run up to World War Two in Germany.

I agree that characterizing all Palestinians as "vermin", is unfair. However i believe that a large number of Palestinians are willing to sacrifice there lives and the lives of their children in order to cause Israel political difficulty. These people are reprehensible, and ought to be viewed as the lowest form of human being. I feel a tremendous amount of regret for the children lost in these attacks, but nothing but disgust for the parents that allowed them to remain there. They are not at all worthy of your sympathy.

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

How tragically ironic it is that just generations ago the Jews were being treated in a somewhat similar manner to how they are treating the Palestinians now. All we need next is Palestinians being fed into gas ovens and the circle will be complete.

How are these things the same? Palestinians are being killed for launching, or standing near those who are launching rockets at a civilian population. The Jews were tortured and killed for political gain. This is like comparing the assassination of MLK to that of Osama bin Laden because: "well, they both got shot by people who didn't like them!"

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

Originally Posted by Soberphobia

So obviously you are saying the Jews have a mandate to take over Palestine? Because the Palestinians can move elsewhere?

You could easily make an argument that the Israelis could move elsewhere or is it acceptable to you for the Palestinians to have their land taken just because its Israel and just because they have some sort of mandate written in a thousands year old religious book?

Look, I think the Jews have a right to their own homeland, but since that's been granted they've taken it upon themselves to absorb as much of Palestine as possible.

What is Palestine and how did Israel 'absorb' this land... When/why was the land 'absorbed' and from who was it 'absorbed' from?