Was It Worth It?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

The OP is right

This team isn't making the playoffs. What the hell has this team shown to suggest that they're capable of running the table to even have a chance at a wildcard?

7-9 or 8-8 doesn't get us anywhere.

All it does is take us out of position to draft a bluechip prospect and buy guys like Sanchez, Rex and Tanny more time.

I'm thinking longterm. We aren't doing sh*t this year. Face it. Accept it.

It'll save you the heartache. If you're honestly expecting us to go on a run and make the playoffs then you have no one but yourself to blame when you're inevitably disappointed.

Untouchable, I have a question for you :


Do you honestly believe that even if the Jets had a Top-10 pick, you think that with the bumbling IDIOTS we have in the Front-Office, they would choose WISELY?

[fidelioion]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Mediocre teams stay mediocre b.c they don't get the blue chips at the top of the draft.

It pays to suck in this league IF you have competent people picking the players.

So, either way we are phucked.

So why do good teams stay good?

While drafting high is always better there are just as many high impact players found at 11-30 as their are 1-10.

Play to win and cheer for your team. This idea that we should hope for losses with a 4-6 where 9 wins gets in the playoffs is absurd.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by fidelioion

So why do good teams stay good?

While drafting high is always better there are just as many high impact players found at 11-30 as their are 1-10.

Play to win and cheer for your team. This idea that we should hope for losses with a 4-6 where 9 wins gets in the playoffs is absurd.

The good teams stay good because they have elite QB's.

And to get that elite QB, most of the time you have to suck for a year or two.

Look at the teams around the league who consistently contend for the Superbowl. The Pats, the Steelers, the Giants, the Saints, the Colts during the Manning days...they all have elite QB's.

Throughout history it is the exact same way. Why in the hell would anyone want to mimick the 2000 Ravens or the 2002 Bucs? They were flashes in the pan who needed everything to come together perfectly.

You need an elite QB to contend year after year in this league.

You think Colts or Skins fans are crying over terrible seasons last year? Hell no. They're set up for the next 10+ years because of it.

[fidelioion]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

The good teams stay good because they have elite QB's.

And to get that elite QB, most of the time you have to suck for a year or two.

Look at the teams around the league who consistently contend for the Superbowl. The Pats, the Steelers, the Giants, the Saints, the Colts during the Manning days...they all have elite QB's.

Throughout history it is the exact same way. Why in the hell would anyone want to mimick the 2000 Ravens or the 2002 Bucs? They were flashes in the pan who needed everything to come together perfectly.

You need an elite QB to contend year after year in this league.

You think Colts or Skins fans are crying over terrible seasons last year? Hell no. They're set up for the next 10+ years because of it.

Fair enough, so it's not about the Blue Chip prospects as you mentioned but about getting a QB. With which I completely agree.

But...By almost all accounts there is NOT a blue chip prospect QB in this years draft and even with the number 1 pick it's unlikely we would select a QB...

So let's play to win.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

The good teams stay good because they have elite QB's.

And to get that elite QB, most of the time you have to suck for a year or two.

Look at the teams around the league who consistently contend for the Superbowl. The Pats, the Steelers, the Giants, the Saints, the Colts during the Manning days...they all have elite QB's.

Throughout history it is the exact same way. Why in the hell would anyone want to mimick the 2000 Ravens or the 2002 Bucs? They were flashes in the pan who needed everything to come together perfectly.

You need an elite QB to contend year after year in this league.

You think Colts or Skins fans are crying over terrible seasons last year? Hell no. They're set up for the next 10+ years because of it.

The Pats and Saints didnt get their QBs by tanking a season.

Washington didnt tank their season, and they still had to trade a ton of picks to get where they are. The Colts sucked period. They didnt have to tank the season, they had the worst HC in the league and Curtis Painter at QB.

There is being bad and then there is intentionally losing games for draft picks.

[fidelioion]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

The Pats and Saints didnt get their QBs by tanking a season.

Washington didnt tank their season, and they still had to trade a ton of picks to get where they are. The Colts sucked period. They didnt have to tank the season, they had the worst HC in the league and Curtis Painter at QB.

There is being bad and then there is intentionally losing games for draft picks.

You could add into that the Packers and Steelers

I don't believe either Ben (11) or Rodgers (24) was a top 10 pick...

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

Just curious, if you feel that way, then why did you go round and round with me one day about how you would have cut Sanchez after last season? I argued those same points you stated in bold, and I believe you accused me of being a homer in the realms of sg3 and Ray Ray....LOL.

Yes, I was exaggerating my stance because I was pissed at the performance (if you want to call it that) Sanchez had just put up.

Truth is, I said after last season that I very much wanted to see Sanchez succeed. I didn't want the team to have to go through growing pains with a young QB all over again. But I was on board with seeing it through. Besides, as I said already the cost of cutting him would have been prohibitive as I recall even before Tanny committed to the extension.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

Just curious, if you feel that way, then why did you go round and round with me one day about how you would have cut Sanchez after last season? I argued those same points you stated in bold, and I believe you accused me of being a homer in the realms of sg3 and Ray Ray....LOL.

I've also figured out since that day that you are NOT one of them. Ray Ray and SG3 are such homers that I find it hard to respect them. Especially when they attack other posters because they believe it's derogatory toward the team.

My feeling is, if you truly love your team, be truthful about it. Don't lie to yourself. That way you know what you're looking at season in and out.

[Mohegangreen]

Originally Posted by Santonio

Shut up, really man




I agree with the OP. I feel exactly the same about the team
as I did on Sunday morning. The organization needs to be gutted

As long as they keep your selfish ass, right Holmes?

[Vin]

Okay....since Untouchable has decided to pretend I don't exist, let me pose this question to anyone who can answer :


"Do you honestly believe that even if the Jets had a Top-10 pick, you think that with the bumbling IDIOTS we have in the Front-Office, they would choose WISELY? "

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

I've also figured out since that day that you are NOT one of them. Ray Ray and SG3 are such homers that I find it hard to respect them. Especially when they attack other posters because they believe it's derogatory toward the team.

My feeling is, if you truly love your team, be truthful about it. Don't lie to yourself. That way you know what you're looking at season in and out.

Its all good. I think the play of Mark has really tested even his most ardent supporters lately. Most of us here are the most passionate of the fan base, therefore we tend to be the most reactionary.

[Mohegangreen]

Originally Posted by Vin

Okay....since Untouchable has decided to pretend I don't exist, let me pose this question to anyone who can answer :


"Do you honestly believe that even if the Jets had a Top-10 pick, you think that with the bumbling IDIOTS we have in the Front-Office, they would choose WISELY? "

Anything is possible

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by Vin

Untouchable, I have a question for you :


Do you honestly believe that even if the Jets had a Top-10 pick, you think that with the bumbling IDIOTS we have in the Front-Office, they would choose WISELY?

This is just another reason why we're best served in the longterm by the team folding this year.

If this team finishes 4-12 or 5-11, things will get shaken up, no question.

Rex may be back and Sanchez may be back, but you can bet your ass that the glorified accountant we have masquerading as a GM will be shown the door.

And maybe the new GM brings in a new coach. Or he at least brings in a solid veteran QB or drafts a young gun and makes it be known that Sanchez won't once again be handed the starting job on a silver platter just because of his contract situation.

It's not about being a "same old Jets fan" or being "fair weather". It's about realizing that drastic changes need to be made for this team to move forward.

Who wants to witness another year of this sh*t? Getting ourselves amped up all offseason just to witness the same damn thing next year. Once again duping ourselves into believing that Sanchez only needs another receiver or two to transform into the player we drafted him to be?

Who wants to witness another year of Sparano's inept offense?

8-8 or 9-7 assures that will happen.

No playoffs. No postseason glory. Just mediocre enough to ensure that we tread water for at least another year.

[JamesR]

Open question to all the fans that support a "tank the season" approach - how do you think it would actaully work???

Do you believe that the GM / coaches / players care more about us as fans than they do about their own careers? Would Rexy stand up in front of the locker room of players and say "Hey guys, let's lose this game, and the next one and the next one, so that most of us get fired / cut at season's end and probably never get a chance to coach / play again, because the fans out there deserve better than us"?

It simply doesn't / won't ever happen, IMHO. So doesn't that make the whole discussion pointless?

Thoughts???

[JaxSuzy]

Originally Posted by JamesR

Open question to all the fans that support a "tank the season" approach - how do you think it would actaully work???

Do you believe that the GM / coaches / players care more about us as fans than they do about their own careers? Would Rexy stand up in front of the locker room of players and say "Hey guys, let's lose this game, and the next one and the next one, so that most of us get fired / cut at season's end and probably never get a chance to coach / play again, because the fans out there deserve better than us"?

It simply doesn't / won't ever happen, IMHO. So doesn't that make the whole discussion pointless?

Thoughts???

Wow - that's a very good way to put it. Nobody's going to fall on their sword and lose their job for for "the greater good". I'm completely against tanking games to move up in the draft, anyway, and your point of view further illustrates the stupidity of the argument.

[124]

Originally Posted by JamesR

Open question to all the fans that support a "tank the season" approach - how do you think it would actaully work???

Do you believe that the GM / coaches / players care more about us as fans than they do about their own careers? Would Rexy stand up in front of the locker room of players and say "Hey guys, let's lose this game, and the next one and the next one, so that most of us get fired / cut at season's end and probably never get a chance to coach / play again, because the fans out there deserve better than us"?

It simply doesn't / won't ever happen, IMHO. So doesn't that make the whole discussion pointless?

Thoughts???

I don't think anyone's naive enough to believe a coach, player, general manager or owner would say such words. What those who would rather see a 5-11 season than a 8-8 season are saying is that they'd rather see the team lose. Of course everyone in the organization is going to try to win every single game to save their own ass, but as a fan we have no control over the outcome and therefore it is your choice as a fan to root for a possible Wild Card berth or falling short of a Wild Card berth that would keep the "Big Three" of Sanchez, Ryan and Tannenbaum intact vs. a 5-11, 6-10 season that would bring upon change in the organization.

Basically it comes down to this: Are you happy with 7-9 win seasons and Wild Card appearances, or do you want to see this team win a Super Bowl?

Choice is yours.

(Que the "Giants have won it as a Wild Card" responses -- show me our consistent pass rush and our Eli Manning, please)

I'm one of those who would rather see 5-11, 6-10 than 8-8. However, if by some crazy nature we pull off a win on Thursday night, my attitude will change because at 5-6, we're back in the Wild Card race. At 4-7 though, we're all but done and I'll be hoping for loses.

[Untouchable]

Who said anything about tanking?

Do I want the Jets to intentionally throw games? No.

I'm simply saying that it's in our best interest longterm if we play the way we did against Miami and Seattle over the next 5-6 weeks.

If you think retaining guys like Sanchez, Sparano and Tannenbaum for another year is a smart move, then by all means, lets go ahead and win a couple more meaningless games and still be left out of the playoff picture regardless.

[MDL_JET]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Who said anything about tanking?

Do I want the Jets to intentionally throw games? No.

I'm simply saying that it's in our best interest longterm if we play the way we did against Miami and Seattle over the next 5-6 weeks.

If you think retaining guys like Sanchez, Sparano and Tannenbaum for another year is a smart move, then by all means, lets go ahead and win a couple more meaningless games and still be left out of the playoff picture regardless.

What does that even mean?? It's in their best interest to play poorly? Sooo....basically, tanking.

If the Jets truly suck, they'll end up with a top 10 pick. But they don't enough to lose to even worse teams like the Rams. Not much you can do as a fan, except sit back and enjoy and hope they make the playoffs and if not hope they make changes regardless of their progress by the end of the season.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by MDL_JET

What does that even mean?? It's in their best interest to play poorly? Sooo....basically, tanking.

If the Jets truly suck, they'll end up with a top 10 pick. But they don't enough to lose to even worse teams like the Rams. Not much you can do as a fan, except sit back and enjoy and hope they make the playoffs and if not hope they make changes regardless of their progress by the end of the season.

So do you honestly think that this team has the ability to put together a 6-0 or 5-1 run the rest of the way? Because that's the only way that we're even going to have a remote shot at the playoffs.

I don't see it. I don't see it at all. Sorry.

If we're going to miss the playoffs anyway, then I'd rather do it at 5-11 or 6-10 to ensure that we'll pick in the Top 10 of the draft and increase the odds that major changes are made.

All 7-9 or 8-8 does is ensure that we have to witness the same old song and dance again next year. Sanchez will be back, Sparano will be back, Tannenbaum will be back and Rex will be back.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

This is just another reason why we're best served in the longterm by the team folding this year.

Except the team won't fold. A few players might, but the team won't. it does not serve each of theri interests to fold or be seen as folding. All wants to keep their jobs, or find new jobs down the road.

So "the team should fold" is a fantasy. They may lose, but professional NFL teams do not "fold" for draft picks, and certainly not with 6 games to go.

If this team finishes 4-12 or 5-11, things will get shaken up, no question.

I disagree. Woody will still own, Tanny and Rex will get one (last year) almost certainly, and Sanchez will not be benched nor moved for 2013, he is the starter.

So the big fan-fantasy of "a shakeup" that fixes everything is just that, a fantasy.

Rex may be back and Sanchez may be back, but you can bet your ass that the glorified accountant we have masquerading as a GM will be shown the door.

I wouldn't bet YOUR ass, much less my ass, on that being such a sure thing.

And maybe the new GM brings in a new coach. Or he at least brings in a solid veteran QB or drafts a young gun and makes it be known that Sanchez won't once again be handed the starting job on a silver platter just because of his contract situation.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. And "maybe" none of that will happen, he'll bring in the next Kotite, who will bring in the next Boomer Esiason, and proceed to go 2-14 then 1-15 then 3-13 before being fired in 2017.

It's important to not be projectionist or fantasy-based on this stuff. Just because you WANT these changes to happen does not makle them a sure-thing success in any form, nor does moving the old guys mean they could not succeed if given another year or more.