Is Bellichek losing his genius status?

[endgameeugenics]

Originally Posted by Redrew

Former defensive genius.....pre passer friendly league
Current offensive genius.....2007 highest scoring team in history, 2012...on pace to be second highest scoring team ever

Genius plus......how many of the "genius" coaches in NFL history adapted and thrived better than Belichick. Hate him all you want. Who does it better?

Win a post spygate superbowl and holla at me

[jetsfan1983]

Belichick is just a solid coach who happened to luck into Brady.

He's no better than the likes of Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher. Both of those guys would've done the exact same thing if they happened to get Brady as well.


He's not a trash coach, he's just not as good as someone like Jim Harbaugh.

[CanadaSteve]

Bellicheck is completely overrated as a coach. He was 36-44 with one playoff appearance in 5 years at the reigns in Cleveland. His first season in New England he was 5-11, and the team was 1-3 (if I remember correctly) when Mo Lewis changed the course of NFL history.
Without that hit, Brady never sees the field for possibly years, if ever, as a Patriot.
When Brady goes, so will Belly....he is smart enough to know when the gravy train ends.

[LSJF]

Originally Posted by Tai Mai Shu

Yay! Another Patriots thread.

We are playing them in a few days, at least it's not another slaughter the pig thread.

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by BigDaddy

Actually, the D hasnt been the same since McGinest left; he was the guy that used to be the most difficult to account for.

There is plenty to criticize on draft picks, FA's, coordinators, etc., and Spygate was a joke, but the Pats have won more games with less talent than they had in the first part of the decade. He was clearly outcoached by Coughlin in the first game, and the Giants were a clearly better team the second time around. Giants fans don't be-labor their championship by lamenting how they lost brainfart games to the Redskins (twice), Eagles and Jaguars last year. It's not Belichik's fault the Giants were 9-7 when they should have been 13-3.

Who's responsible for the talent level?

[McGinley]

Originally Posted by JETS2417

This. Bill's a good coach, but without Brady he wouldn't have a single ring.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that.

[McGinley]

Belichick is, obviously, one of the finest Head Coaches in history. Not taking anything away from that fact. However, it is very common to overrate a legend's present because of their past. I think that's the reason why (some) people have such a hard time putting Aaron Rodgers ahead of Brady right now. We naturally gravitate and favor the things of which we are familiar with.

It's only natural that as time goes by you move further away from your prime, whether that be physically or mentally. I'm not saying he's stupid or anything like that; he's not. What I'm saying is that he's not at his peak anymore, and his career is enjoying a very pleasant decline.

Nothing at all wrong with that. That's just the way things work.

[leftturn3]

Originally Posted by BigDaddy

How do you average 12 wins per year in a league that strives for parity and not be somewhat smart, if not a genius? The Pats always have to draft at the bottom of each round, they have to play the divisional winners from the previous year, but they somehow keep on truckin'. No one in New England expected them to go 13-3 last year, let alone be a couple of minutes away from winning a Super Bowl. They had lots of issues personnel-wise last year, and the same is true this year.

Why shouldn't we trust Belichek's judgement?

If the Pats lose to the Jets Thursday night, and the Jets, as they did in the last matchup against the Patriots, and as they did against the Rams, if the Jets show what they are capable of in a season they may have squandered already, who has the smarter coaches? Why does this discussion event matter?

Lets break it down.
12 wins per year, Brady, Welker, Gronk, Hernandez just to name a few, all made to look exceptional by Brady. not taking away, good players, but Brady adds the extra boost.

Bottom of the draft, he has Brady with a solid Offense, can concentrate on Defense, and that has been questionable over the years.

Almost won SB, key word "Almost", basically NE was the first loser. with Brady and company you can come close, but once again, close does not cut it.

I do not want to take anything away from BB, I would like for the Jets to be the first loser and go 13-3, but we are talking about just how good BB is and is he a football genius. All indications point that without Brady and the cheating the team could convincingly have never taken the three titles. Bottom line, they have Brady and three rings, so cheating aside, I would say BB is a pretty good coach, and he listens to Stern, so he has that going for him.

[DDNYjets]

If the Giants do not make 2 miraculous plays . . .

he is the undisputed GOAT.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by CraigFL

“He is my All-Pro tight end and my quarterback’s favorite receiver. I would get him off the field,” an NFL source said Monday. “Don’t expose him any more than he has to. Belichick can be second-guessed for that. I would. If it was a game-changing situation and we need to lock down the game, then use him. But what he did is not smart. It’s not good business.”

Hey now, I refuse to trust an article with "anonymous sources!"

The author of this article has an agenda and is making all of it up!

[CraigFL]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

Hey now, I refuse to trust an article with "anonymous sources!"

The author of this article has an agenda and is making all of it up!

It doesn't matter who said it but what was said, and there is some merit to the statement.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by CraigFL

It doesn't matter who said it but what was said, and there is some merit to the statement.

Belichick and Brady, since they started up, have more wins, division titles, conference titles, and super bowl titles than any other mofos on the planet. But he's losing his "genius status." Oh boo hoo.

PS Gary Meyers has been ragged on repeatedly on this board for some of his articles about the Jets. Now all of a sudden he's a respected columnist whose opinions have "merit." What a garbage article... he's made a lot of Jet fans happy in the pants today, though, so he did his job.

[CraigFL]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

Belichick and Brady, since they started up, have more wins, division titles, conference titles, and super bowl titles than any other mofos on the planet. But he's losing his "genius status." Oh boo hoo.

PS Gary Meyers has been ragged on repeatedly on this board for some of his articles about the Jets. Now all of a sudden he's a respected columnist whose opinions have "merit." What a garbage article... he's made a lot of Jet fans happy in the pants today, though, so he did his job.

Dude what's the problem? Yes Myers is a hack, yes anonymous sources are suspect. Most of all YES it's stupid to leave your starting TE (head and shoulders above most) in on special teams when you're up 48 to 24. Anyone, including Gary Myers, can see that. I feel bad for you if you can't see such simplistic logic.

[Redrew]

Always interesting to read some of the insightful wisdom these threads cough up.
Just curious why Belichick never gets credit for creating the QB that Brady has become.
Brady was no more than a game manager in '01 managing a dink and dunk offense that depended on field position to get scoring opportunities. Check out Brady's stats in '01 and realize how unimpressive they were. Brady's greatest asset at that time was avoiding the negative play....a Bledsoe deficiency. Throwing the ball away and avoiding the sack was rule #1. Rule #2....dink it to Troy Brown.
Even through 2004, those Pats teams were so balanced that rarely was Brady expected to carry the day. He evolved as did Belichick. And when the league decided that it wanted a passing game first and foremost, Belichick then supplied Brady the weapons that created scoring records for league, team, QB, WR, and TE.
Keep in mind, we are not talking about Peyton Manning imposing his will on the roster, in the game plan, and on the field. We are talking Tom Brady who faithfully carries out his coaches marching orders.
Imagine if Brady landed on a team coached by a dinosaur like Marty Schottenheimer. Or the modern ground pound mental midgets of today. And the roster build can't be ignored. Back when defense ruled, Belichick built teams from the D line on out. Back in the day, the O line was built in the midrounds. Not now. Back in the day, Brady's WRs were low rounders and castoffs. Not now. The money has been thrown around big time on the offensive side of the ball....all to enhance Brady.....and its worked in record setting fashion.
Bottom line....Brady and Belichick have evolved together....but the underlying theme is the flexibility of the coach and his ability to be two steps ahead of the league....the scoreboard don't lie.

[SlickBri481]

I think his game management has been questionable for years, but it's hard to argue with his offensive systems and how well he gets the team to play in the 2nd half of seasons the last few years. As a personnel guy drafting defense? Pretty poor track record of late. The playoffs since their last SB have probably been a bit of a disappointment, but they were a couple of "fluke" type plays away from having two more rings, especially in 07.

He's still easily a top 5 coach in the league. But then again, there's probably only about 10-15 coaches in this league that would be considered "good" and way less than that that would be considered "great."

[jetster]

Not gonna take anything away from the fact that Belichick is a very good coach but it would be azzinine to believe that he could have the record he has WITHOUT TB12.
While its true that Brady started as a game manager, Belichick saw something in him in practice that made him realize he was much better than Bledsoe.

Belichick is more of a rules stretcher than any other coach I've ever seen. Early in his Pats career he figured out that refs were told to keep the flags in heir pockets so as to not disrupt the game.

So, he won his 1st Superbowl by doing two things that were illegal but for that reason refs were not making the calls. The 1st was to have his ends on defense grab & hold Marshall Faulk so he was unable to get into the flat or between the LBs where he does his damage.
The other thing he had his secondary do was grab & hold a lot, and in the Superbowl vs the Rams he had players "hitting" the Rams receivers whether they caught the ball or not, & they also hit them when they gave themselves up and went to the turf.
As every football fan knows both of these strategies don't work today because the league is now "enforcing" the rules that Belichick 1st took advantage of.

In fact BB kept getting away with his interpretation of the rules until Bill Polian sent film to the league office asking why the Patriots were not being called for holding after the 5 yard marker, which happened more than 14 times on tape in the Colts loss to the Pats in the snow.

The Superbowl win vs the Rams could not even be duplicated in the NFL in 2012, the Pats would have had so many personal foul late hit calls, & hitting defenseless receivers that they probably would have had players tossed from the game.

As everyone knows now, it was the playoff games vs the Colts that preempted the changes & enforcement of the 5 yard rule.

So, if you want to tell me that without Brady, Belichick would be as successful as he has been I would say BS.
If you ask me if BB is a very good coach, manipulator, always looking to stretch the rules, & would pretty much do anything to win a game. I have to answer yes. I wish he never walked away from NY.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

I think his game management has been questionable for years, but it's hard to argue with his offensive systems and how well he gets the team to play in the 2nd half of seasons the last few years. As a personnel guy drafting defense? Pretty poor track record of late. The playoffs since their last SB have probably been a bit of a disappointment, but they were a couple of "fluke" type plays away from having two more rings, especially in 07.

He's still easily a top 5 coach in the league. But then again, there's probably only about 10-15 coaches in this league that would be considered "good" and way less than that that would be considered "great."

Please elaborate. If you are talking about clock management, 4th down decisions, halftime adjustments, etc. there have been some poor decisions this season but overall I can't think of any coach who is a better in-game tactician. Maybe Sean Payton. Seriously, like 25-30 NFL head coaches are awful at it. Belichick isn't one of them, which immediately gives him a leg up in that area. Belichick is going to run circles around Gary Kubiak who is one of those 25-30 idiots.

[Spectre]

If he beats the Jets on Thursday, I think BB ties Dan Reeves at #5 for most wins by a coach. (200 wins)

Bad coaches don't win that many games.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by jetster

Not gonna take anything away from the fact that Belichick is a very good coach but it would be azzinine to believe that he could have the record he has WITHOUT TB12.
While its true that Brady started as a game manager, Belichick saw something in him in practice that made him realize he was much better than Bledsoe.

Belichick is more of a rules stretcher than any other coach I've ever seen. Early in his Pats career he figured out that refs were told to keep the flags in heir pockets so as to not disrupt the game.

So, he won his 1st Superbowl by doing two things that were illegal but for that reason refs were not making the calls. The 1st was to have his ends on defense grab & hold Marshall Faulk so he was unable to get into the flat or between the LBs where he does his damage.
The other thing he had his secondary do was grab & hold a lot, and in the Superbowl vs the Rams he had players "hitting" the Rams receivers whether they caught the ball or not, & they also hit them when they gave themselves up and went to the turf.
As every football fan knows both of these strategies don't work today because the league is now "enforcing" the rules that Belichick 1st took advantage of.

In fact BB kept getting away with his interpretation of the rules until Bill Polian sent film to the league office asking why the Patriots were not being called for holding after the 5 yard marker, which happened more than 14 times on tape in the Colts loss to the Pats in the snow.

The Superbowl win vs the Rams could not even be duplicated in the NFL in 2012, the Pats would have had so many personal foul late hit calls, & hitting defenseless receivers that they probably would have had players tossed from the game.

As everyone knows now, it was the playoff games vs the Colts that preempted the changes & enforcement of the 5 yard rule.

So, if you want to tell me that without Brady, Belichick would be as successful as he has been I would say BS.
If you ask me if BB is a very good coach, manipulator, always looking to stretch the rules, & would pretty much do anything to win a game. I have to answer yes. I wish he never walked away from NY.

And the league has never been the same since. Polian ruined the league just as much as Goodell did. Chuck it up, get a flag. First and goal.

[child please]

Losing his genius?

He never was one, complete media fabrication. He's a known cheater and he'd be Mike Mularkey without Brady.

Charlatan.