Is Bellichek losing his genius status?

[AFCEastFan]

Originally Posted by jetster

Not gonna take anything away from the fact that Belichick is a very good coach but it would be azzinine to believe that he could have the record he has WITHOUT TB12.
While its true that Brady started as a game manager, Belichick saw something in him in practice that made him realize he was much better than Bledsoe.

Belichick is more of a rules stretcher than any other coach I've ever seen. Early in his Pats career he figured out that refs were told to keep the flags in heir pockets so as to not disrupt the game.

So, he won his 1st Superbowl by doing two things that were illegal but for that reason refs were not making the calls. The 1st was to have his ends on defense grab & hold Marshall Faulk so he was unable to get into the flat or between the LBs where he does his damage.
The other thing he had his secondary do was grab & hold a lot, and in the Superbowl vs the Rams he had players "hitting" the Rams receivers whether they caught the ball or not, & they also hit them when they gave themselves up and went to the turf.
As every football fan knows both of these strategies don't work today because the league is now "enforcing" the rules that Belichick 1st took advantage of.

In fact BB kept getting away with his interpretation of the rules until Bill Polian sent film to the league office asking why the Patriots were not being called for holding after the 5 yard marker, which happened more than 14 times on tape in the Colts loss to the Pats in the snow.

The Superbowl win vs the Rams could not even be duplicated in the NFL in 2012, the Pats would have had so many personal foul late hit calls, & hitting defenseless receivers that they probably would have had players tossed from the game.

As everyone knows now, it was the playoff games vs the Colts that preempted the changes & enforcement of the 5 yard rule.

So, if you want to tell me that without Brady, Belichick would be as successful as he has been I would say BS.
If you ask me if BB is a very good coach, manipulator, always looking to stretch the rules, & would pretty much do anything to win a game. I have to answer yes. I wish he never walked away from NY.

Excellent post. Not much to disagree with here, at least for this Patriots fan.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by child please

Losing his genius?

He never was one, complete media fabrication. He's a known cheater and he'd be Mike Mularkey without Brady.

Charlatan.

Child Please

[MCBNY]

The inferiority complex is sad.

[ASG0531]

No rational person thinks Belichick would be as successful without Brady. Almost by definition that's impossible. Would Bill Walsh be as successful without Montana? Tom Landry without Roger Staubach? There are very few legendary coaches who didn't have a legendary quarterback. It's a symbiotic relationship and it's idiotic to attempt to isolate the effect of one on another.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

Please elaborate. If you are talking about clock management, 4th down decisions, halftime adjustments, etc. there have been some poor decisions this season but overall I can't think of any coach who is a better in-game tactician. Maybe Sean Payton. Seriously, like 25-30 NFL head coaches are awful at it. Belichick isn't one of them, which immediately gives him a leg up in that area. Belichick is going to run circles around Gary Kubiak who is one of those 25-30 idiots.

All of those things you mentioned outside of maybe halftime adjustments. Just notably this season, he threw away the Cards game by getting conservative and refusing to try to advance the ball closer for a FG at the end of regulation. It was a strategy Herm Edwards similarly employed in the 2004 AFC Divisional round game that started the beginning of the end for him. In sum, terrible coaching. Sorry, you never settle for a 45 yarder when you have sufficient time to advance the ball, even more egregious when you have Brady who finally heated up in the 4th quarter under center for you. When the Pats don't have a bye this season, you can probably thank that move by Bill. He's very much been in your pack of 25-30 idiots for years now when it comes to that stuff.

[detjetsfan]

No, not substituting your All-Pro TE out of a PAT formation when you're up 28 points in the 4th qtr is the most intelligentest move EVAH. Mike Fatcesa told me and it had nothing to do with the fact dat he's had his tongue stitched into Belichick's ass for over 10 years now.

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by CanadaSteve

Bellicheck is completely overrated as a coach. He was 36-44 with one playoff appearance in 5 years at the reigns in Cleveland. His first season in New England he was 5-11, and the team was 1-3 (if I remember correctly) when Mo Lewis changed the course of NFL history.
Without that hit, Brady never sees the field for possibly years, if ever, as a Patriot.
When Brady goes, so will Belly....he is smart enough to know when the gravy train ends.

Belichick will run out of New England the day Brady retires. By that time Coughlin will probably be retiring and the Giants job will be his golden parachute. That said, he is one of the best coaches in the NFL. He just made a negligent move using Gronk to block in on a PAT while trying to run up the score in the 4th quarter.


It's hilarious listening to these Bill Belichick penis suckers pretend like there was nothing wrong with it.

[scottyM]

God this thread is borderline unreadable.

BB is amongst the best coaches in the NFL. End of story. I don't think any of his peers, whether it be pro or college, head coach or personnel man, would dispute this.

Has he made some questionable decisions? Sure- what coach hasn't? But the fact that some of you are adhering to an argument that he is a highly over-rated coach is a joke. Hey, at least its better than writing an entire article about it in order to generate web hits (Gary Meyers).

[GuidoYaztremski]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

No, not substituting your All-Pro TE out of a PAT formation when you're up 28 points in the 4th qtr is the most intelligentest move EVAH. Mike Fatcesa told me and it had nothing to do with the fact dat he's had his tongue stitched into Belichick's ass for over 10 years now.

Rex Ryan: It’s “ridiculous” to blame Belichick for Gronkowski injury

“Absolutely ridiculous,” Ryan said, via Tom Curran of CSNNE.com. “[Gronkowski] is on an extra point. He’s probably done it 100 times this year for the simple fact that’s how many points they score. You never see that. Every single team in the league, we have D’Brickashaw Ferguson there.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...kowski-injury/

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

All of those things you mentioned outside of maybe halftime adjustments. Just notably this season, he threw away the Cards game by getting conservative and refusing to try to advance the ball closer for a FG at the end of regulation. It was a strategy Herm Edwards similarly employed in the 2004 AFC Divisional round game that started the beginning of the end for him. In sum, terrible coaching. Sorry, you never settle for a 45 yarder when you have sufficient time to advance the ball, even more egregious when you have Brady who finally heated up in the 4th quarter under center for you. When the Pats don't have a bye this season, you can probably thank that move by Bill. He's very much been in your pack of 25-30 idiots for years now when it comes to that stuff.

As I mentioned, there have been some bad decisions made this season. I'm not sure why. But I'm not going to put a tremendous stock into a 10-game sample size compared to his overall coaching data points, in which Belichick has proven superior to his coaching opponents.

Go ahead and provide some more points where Belichick has been an "idiot" as an in-game coach over the past several years.

Seriously, hating on Belichick is simply laughable. Rex Ryan makes more in-game errors in a single game than Belichick usually makes in a year. There's no one even close in the league at managing games.

[scottyM]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

Belichick will run out of New England the day Brady retires. By that time Coughlin will probably be retiring and the Giants job will be his golden parachute. That said, he is one of the best coaches in the NFL. He just made a negligent move using Gronk to block in on a PAT while trying to run up the score in the 4th quarter.


It's hilarious listening to these Bill Belichick penis suckers pretend like there was nothing wrong with it.

What are you failing to comprehend here? Every single team in the league uses starters on PAT tries. It's a matter of pure numbers and having enough big bodies. It's a matter of safety for your kicker and punter. Most importantly, its how its practiced in an effort to be perfect for when the games really matter.

If anyone really wanted to take the time to look I'm sure there are videos on NFL.com where mangold and brick are in blocking with the game well out of hand. Heck, Andrew Luck was in slinging the ball with 2 minutes left in the game, down 30. Ohhh the outrage.

[CanadaSteve]

Originally Posted by scottyM

God this thread is borderline unreadable.

BB is amongst the best coaches in the NFL. End of story. I don't think any of his peers, whether it be pro or college, head coach or personnel man, would dispute this.

Has he made some questionable decisions? Sure- what coach hasn't? But the fact that some of you are adhering to an argument that he is a highly over-rated coach is a joke. Hey, at least its better than writing an entire article about it in order to generate web hits (Gary Meyers).

Yeah, he sure was one brilliant coach before that hit......

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by jetsfan1983

Belichick is just a solid coach who happened to luck into Brady.

He's no better than the likes of Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher. Both of those guys would've done the exact same thing if they happened to get Brady as well.


He's not a trash coach, he's just not as good as someone like Jim Harbaugh.

I've read all the posts here and this one is as close to what I believe. But...he's better than the above and his record shows it. He develops players, develops plays to match his players talents. He has won under multiple DC and OCs .... I hate the guy but he is an excellent HC.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

I've read all the posts here and this one is as close to what I believe. But...he's better than the above and his record shows it. He develops players, develops plays to match his players talents. He has won under multiple DC and OCs .... I hate the guy but he is an excellent HC.

Andy Reid blows timeouts and makes bad decisions to kick field goals in hilarious fashion every single week. He's a complete dumbass, and will be fired in the offseason. Fisher has nowhere near the aggressiveness that Belichick has. It's a complete joke to compare those fools to BB. I can't even believe some people on here think Brady is the only difference between these coaches. Keep hating, I guess.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

He will lose his genius status the second Brady retires.

AGREED.

The article is right. He hasn't won a f*cking thing since spygate was uncovered.

But everyone still likes to think of the Patriots as this great team. They're not. They win a sh*tload of regular season games and then they ALWAYS sh*t the bed during the playoffs.

And like you said, the very second Brady retires, he is exposed for the glorified defensive coordinator he's always been.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

Andy Reid blows timeouts and makes bad decisions to kick field goals in hilarious fashion every single week. He's a complete dumbass, and will be fired in the offseason. Fisher has nowhere near the aggressiveness that Belichick has. It's a complete joke to compare those fools to BB. I can't even believe some people on here think Brady is the only difference between these coaches. Keep hating, I guess.

You talkin to me???? If so..go back to middle school for reading comprehension.
If not Happy Thanksgiving...actually Happy Thanksgiving anyway.

I said he was an excellent head coach. What did you miss?

[jetster]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

And the league has never been the same since. Polian ruined the league just as much as Goodell did. Chuck it up, get a flag. First and goal.

Actually Belichick is the one to blame. Had he not abused the rules & the fact the NFL was making it a point to try & not slow the game down by calling every time a receiver was " bumped" into, he took it to another level that was so blatant there is a you tube video of all the holding that went on in that game.
Polian had a right to be upset with all the non calls & it was starting to look like the Patriots were getting preferential treatment, something the league knew would not go over well with fans all over the country.

Of course like everything the NFL office does, it's tipped it way over to the offensive side, which has had an adverse affect on the teams that do not have "franchise QBs".

Thus, as Brady has moved into the upper echelon of franchise QBs the rule changes have actually benefitted the Patriots in a huge way since they now are an offensive juggernaut with a crappy defense.

[GuidoYaztremski]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

AGREED.

The article is right. He hasn't won a f*cking thing since spygate was uncovered.

But everyone still likes to think of the Patriots as this great team. They're not. They win a sh*tload of regular season games and then they ALWAYS sh*t the bed during the playoffs.

And like you said, the very second Brady retires, he is exposed for the glorified defensive coordinator he's always been.

How is getting to SB TWICE since spygate sh*tting the bed, yet losing 2 AFCCGs a huge accomplishment for Rex?

You DO have to win playoff games to get to the SB you know.

[PatriotReign]

Don't care if BB is considered overrated, don't care if people think Rodgers is better than Brady. I only care about whether the Pats are a SB contender.

The fans who obsess over a coach or player being viewed as the best (or a genius) are into hero worshipping. Its like some of the Jets fans with Revis who will likley be considered one of the GOAT when all is said and done. Given the choice they'd rather have a mediorcre team with Revis than a winning one without him.

[PatriotReign]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

AGREED.

The article is right. He hasn't won a f*cking thing since spygate was uncovered.

But everyone still likes to think of the Patriots as this great team. They're not. They win a sh*tload of regular season games and then they ALWAYS sh*t the bed during the playoffs.

And like you said, the very second Brady retires, he is exposed for the glorified defensive coordinator he's always been.

You do realize it's not easy to get to a SB let alone win one? The flaw in your logic is that the Tyree and Manningham miracle catches are more of a factor than spygate about why the Pats beinng 5-0.

The Pats went 18-1 post spygate in 2007 however teams are rightly viewed by the winning championships as close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. However in the context of spygate it had no bearing on two miracle catches (or the Welker drop).