What has happened to the Jets' Special Teams?

[nuu faaola]

Ironically, we are getting better kicking and punting than we have in a long time.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by RoadFan

Then please enlighten me. I could use a good laugh. How exactly is a fake punt not based on the element of surprise? By your logic, it would be a reasonable strategy to send the field goal team out there to pick up a 3rd and 6 against the base defense.... Maybe Nick Folk can throw a pass to the holder....

Tell ya what, instead of me giving you my opinion, how about we see what Mike Westhoff has to say about the matter. Would you agree that he's well regarded league wide as one of the best, and most knowledgeable ST coaches in the game ?


http://blog.newyorkjets.com/2012/10/...ust-execution/

STS*: Fake Punts Are No Trickery, Just Execution
Posted by Randy Lange on October 20, 2012 – 12:14 pm

If the Jets execute a fake punt every other game, does it no longer qualify as a fake?

As special teams coordinator Mike Westhoff said this week in response: “I’d rather execute than trick. That’s me as a coach. I don’t think we really tricked anybody.”

''



Oh, and as for running fakes against base defenses ???

From the same linked piece:

But then as Westhoff reminded reporters on Thursday, “I’d run more of ‘em than that if we could. We have them up all the time. Many times on fakes you catch someone totally unprepared. That really has not happened too much with us, especially after we’ve run them, because people now know and they’re going to gear up for it.

“But we still think we can do it.”

Here's quotes from Rex and Westhoff:



http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/...p8O8H6X72FMetL

Ryan and Westhoff aren’t worried opposing teams will start game-planning for the fake punts. They try to use as many different and unique formations as they can to mask the fakes.

“We still think we can do it,” Westoff said.

Or, as Ryan said, if teams start going to their base defense, “You still have to stop it.”

Lastly, I'd point out that not only have our coaches said that we will indeed run fake punts against base defenses, WE'VE ALREADY DONE IT. The fake punt against the Texans was against their "base defense".

[McGinley]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Tell ya what, instead of me giving you my opinion, how about we see what Mike Westhoff has to say about the matter. Would you agree that he's well regarded league wide as one of the best, and most knowledgeable ST coaches in the game ?


http://blog.newyorkjets.com/2012/10/...ust-execution/


''



Oh, and as for running fakes against base defenses ???

From the same linked piece:



Here's quotes from Rex and Westhoff:



http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/...p8O8H6X72FMetL






Lastly, I'd point out that not only have our coaches said that we will indeed run fake punts against base defenses, WE'VE ALREADY DONE IT. The fake punt against the Texans was against their "base defense".

You just KNOW that when you see a long post by Demos, he's going hard in the paint.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by nuu faaola

Ironically, we are getting better kicking and punting than we have in a long time.

Exactly, so there is some reason to feel confident in the unit overall when your kicker has been on and your punter keeps booming them.

I imagine we would feel far worse if we had a kicking situation like Packers do right now where Crosby is missing everything and they are standing by him. And that's a team with serious SB aspirations.

[fidelioion]

Originally Posted by McGinley

Did I not just say that Westy is partially to blame? Sorry, I didn't know that Westhoff was out on the field missing tackles/arm tackling.

It's common sense that when a player ****s up, that's on him. A coach can only do so much, you know?

How come Rex is a bad coach then? How come Sparano is a bad coach?

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by fidelioion

How come Rex is a bad coach then? How come Sparano is a bad coach?

For Sparano, it would be because the design of the running game / blocking schemes completely sucks, he doesn't know **** about the WC apparently, he can't figure out how or when to use Tebow correctly, and some of his play calling just leaves you shaking your head and asking WTF ? Have to give him some props on designing and calling some nice chunk passing plays though.


For Rex (and Tanny), it would be a question of player evaluation, coach selection (Sparano and DeGugliamo), and wholesale lack of attention to the fundamentals of football.

On this last point, best example would be that if one guy misses a block or tackle, that's on him. If the entire team seemingly can't block or tackle, that's on the coaching staff.

With Westhoff, things get skewed by sample size since STs are involved in such a small percentage of plays.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by McGinley

You just KNOW that when you see a long post by Demos, he's going hard in the paint.

Hard into the paint and to the rim with with a slam dunk

[Ruby2]

When you have no depth this is what happens.

[McGinley]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Hard into the paint and to the rim with with a slam dunk

[JaxSuzy]

Originally Posted by McGinley

LEARN. TO. ****ING. READ. If I'm on ST and I mess up my assignment and end up missing a block that gets the punt blocked or whatever scenario we're in, you couldn't just go "WOW! **** YOU, WESTHOFF! STUPID ****ING COACH! WHY DID YOU MAKE MCGINLEY MISS HIS ASSIGNMENT!? STUPID ASS! MCDAWG, YOU DA BESS! I'M SORRY YOUR COACH IS AN IDIOT AND MADE YOU SCREW UP!". You see how that works?

Boom!

[McGinley]

Originally Posted by JaxSuzy

Boom!

The gloves.......have come off...

[DDNYjets]

Westy and Rex are blowing smoke, as usual.

Lets see how many more fake punts we run against base defenses. That will be the proof.

[LockeJET]

As bad as it's been it's still our best unit. Sad but true!

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Westy and Rex are blowing smoke, as usual.

Lets see how many more fake punts we run against base defenses. That will be the proof.

You willing to place a bet on that ?

[DDNYjets]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

You willing to place a bet on that ?

No.

I just realized how dumb we are and we MIGHT actually do it again.

[detjetsfan]

If only we had an all-pro Tight End to use on Extra Points.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Not sure how you can arrive at this result other than affection for Tebow.

They were in their base defense. And the MLB you reference is one of the smartest and instinctive MLBs in the NFL. He was not going to get fooled there. We have run multiple fakes this year. STL was not going to get caught off guard.

There was no missed block b.c that play is not designed to run against a base defense.

What the heck, why not.....

Here's the alignment of the "base defense" at the snap of the ball. This is when you'd make the PSR, or pre-snap read.




Here would be the play scheme (based on watching it unfold).





As you can see, at the onset of the play, the MLB was about 3 yards to the left of the ball. He was between the hashmarks, slightly shaded to the right. Play was designed to go a couple yards to the right of the hashmark.


It's important to remember that this play flows to the right and that the defense reacts accordingly. That is, they flow to the right as well. Center has blue X over him. He's supposed to come out and block the MLB who is about 4 yards off the line, and 3 yards to the left of the ball. Demario Davis (56) is supposed to down block his man to the inside. Eric Smith (33) drifts out and down to the right, taking the OLB with him as he would be an eligible receiver coming out of the backfield. He then executes a seal block. The DE is circled with dashes. He is being Optioned on. If he comes down to cover Hilliard (36), then Tebow (15) keeps the ball and goes through the hole. If the DE comes to stop Tebow, then Tebow executes a shovel pass to Hilliard. This one is purely about position. IF the other blocks are made, there is no need to block the DE as he takes himself out of the play.

The reason this play didn't work is that the center didn't get a block on the MLB.


Here's Purdum trying to get to his block, but missing it. The red arrow on the right points to him, the red arrow on the left points to the MLB, who he was supposed to block:




Here's the MLB, Laurinaitis, the guy Purdum was supposed to block, standing in the middle of a BIG ASSED HOLE that Hilliard would have run through to get the first down.






Like I said, it doesn't matter that they were in their base defense. The play was perfect for the alignment the defense was in. Purdum just has to make that block.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

No.

I just realized how dumb we are and we MIGHT actually do it again.

DDNY, it's not dumb. Think about this. Offense comes to the line and some passing play is called. Sanchez sees that the D is in a 2 deep zone, and that on our strong side, they are aligned in a Wide 9 with the DE outside our TE. There's a big gaping hole there on the right. What should Sanchez do ? He should audible to a running play right through that gap.

On punts, it's no different.

[detjetsfan]

Tebow has sucked on special teams. Tebow sucks on regular offensive plays. Tebow just sucks in general. I don't even blame him I blame the coaching staff for setting him up to fail.

Only time Tebow should ever see the football field again this season is if Mark Sanchez goes down with an injury. THAT'S IT.

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by nuu faaola

Ironically, we are getting better kicking and punting than we have in a long time.

Nick Folk was excellent last Sunday. Tebow is whatever. His job on ST is to not be noticed. If you do notice him it's because he's missing a blocking assignment and our punt was blocked.


I could care less about Tebow not converting a fake punt. Fake Punts are always very risky if you're 4th and 2 or more you might as well just run a conventional play on 4th down.