Is Bellichek losing his genius status? - Page 4 - Jets Insider.com Forums

CleatMarks · 11-21-2012, 08:19 AM

Why does anyone care about BB's status? It's like a bunch of high school kids jockeying to be the coolest. Who cares?

southparkcpa · 11-21-2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotReign

You do realize it's not easy to get to a SB let alone win one? The flaw in your logic is that the Tyree and Manningham miracle catches are more of a factor than spygate about why the Pats beinng 5-0.

The Pats went 18-1 post spygate in 2007 however teams are rightly viewed by the winning championships as close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. However in the context of spygate it had no bearing on two miracle catches (or the Welker drop).

Yep..... when you are right, you are right. LUCK has ver little to do with it. BB develops players and develops a team around THEIR unique skills. THAT is coaching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotReign

Don't care if BB is considered overrated, don't care if people think Rodgers is better than Brady. I only care about whether the Pats are a SB contender.

The fans who obsess over a coach or player being viewed as the best (or a genius) are into hero worshipping. Its like some of the Jets fans with Revis who will likley be considered one of the GOAT when all is said and done. Given the choice they'd rather have a mediorcre team with Revis than a winning one without him.

Interestingly...nobody can name a loser in a SB after a few years but Jets fans relish in 2 AFC Champ losses where we were under prepared and mortgaged from a player standpoint. I fully enjoyed it but the 2010 draft was a "WHO? from WHERE? draft that showed the new colors of the JETS FO abd coaching staff.

Im ready to release Mevis. I like the team without him. Him and Holmes.

Happy Holidays!

124 · 11-21-2012, 08:47 AM

All I need to look at is Belichick's pre-Brady record vs. his post-Brady record.

It isn't even close who the real genius is in New England. It's the Quarterback.

Still a very, very good coach though.

jetster · 11-21-2012, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotReign

You do realize it's not easy to get to a SB let alone win one? The flaw in your logic is that the Tyree and Manningham miracle catches are more of a factor than spygate about why the Pats beinng 5-0.

The Pats went 18-1 post spygate in 2007 however teams are rightly viewed by the winning championships as close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. However in the context of spygate it had no bearing on two miracle catches (or the Welker drop).

More to the point of what people are saying is the fact that you have a franchise QB that is head & shoulders better than anyone else in the AFC East, & the fact that the rule changes have benefited these QBs & their respective offences and made it even easier for the Patriots to continue winning the division going away & allowing them a bye in the playoffs.

That's how you get to the Superbowl more often than not.

Would the Patriots be as good in the NFC east? Not sure.
The Bills & Fins have been awful for years now & the only time the Pats did not win the division was when Brady got hurt & the Fins had Pennington. The Jets in the ONLY year they actually had TALENT on offense won a playoff game @ Gillette.

The fact remains that the Pats have had the easiest path to the Superbowl by virtue of the competition in their division but still haven't won a Bowl since Spygate so if it goes to 8 years after this season...yes, that's news worthy.

Rob0729 · 11-21-2012, 09:24 AM

Now I can see why you guys complain about the NY media. I don't have problem with a NY paper questioning Belichick's genius status, but to do it based on him playing Gronk on a PAT attempt is pretty stupid.

As Tom Jackson pointed out, teams do not have a PAT team depth chart and most teams still play starters on those plays even after they pull starters in a blowout. Teams only have 45 man active roster, and of those 45 players, only 10-12 guys (at most) are suited to block on the PAT team. They ain't putting Danny Woodhead on the line to block.

Also, when was the last time anyone got seriously injured blocking a PAT attempt especially in a blowout? Someone gets a significant injury on PAT attempts every 5-10 years. Gronk wasn't much more likely to get injured on that play than tripping on his shoe laces on the sidelines. It was a fluke injury.

You can question him playing on the play before that when he scored the TD, but most coaches would have played Gronk on the PAT because they had no other players to do it. You need 9 big bodies who can block on the line on PAT attempts.

I really don't care if Belichick is considered a genius or not. It doesn't do anything to affect the play on the field. But at least come up with a decent argument which is based in some football reality.

First DOWN! · 11-21-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mainejet

AGREED.

The article is right. He hasn't won a f*cking thing since spygate was uncovered.

But everyone still likes to think of the Patriots as this great team. They're not. They win a sh*tload of regular season games and then they ALWAYS sh*t the bed during the playoffs.

And like you said, the very second Brady retires, he is exposed for the glorified defensive coordinator he's always been.

I would LOVE for the Jets to sh!t the bed in the playoffs and make it to the SB twice. Just once. Maybe in my lifetime.

Jet Nut · 11-21-2012, 10:22 AM

He never was a genius, he's a good coach with as great QB. And a cheating program. Love that the same press that is too quick to make someone into a genius then can't wait to knock someone off that mantle.

thebigragu · 11-21-2012, 10:23 AM

No and the Jets still suck. Next

FF2® · 11-21-2012, 10:37 AM

Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein.

Bonhomme Richard · 11-21-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadaSteve

Bellicheck is completely overrated as a coach. He was 36-44 with one playoff appearance in 5 years at the reigns in Cleveland. His first season in New England he was 5-11, and the team was 1-3 (if I remember correctly) when Mo Lewis changed the course of NFL history.
Without that hit, Brady never sees the field for possibly years, if ever, as a Patriot.
When Brady goes, so will Belly....he is smart enough to know when the gravy train ends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

If the Giants do not make 2 miraculous plays . . .

he is the undisputed GOAT.

I think this is the most fascinating part of this discussion. IMO, both of these statements are completely accurate. So I guess that means that while it takes talent to be great, it also requires an incredible amount of luck and good timing.

JonEJet · 11-21-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

Im ready to release Mevis. I like the team without him. Him and Holmes.

I read a lot of your BS, but this one is pure stooooopidity

You can't stand this team...each and every week you *****, whether they win or lose

Now you want the team to "release" their best two players?

Seriously, how old are you. Should I bother rationalizing with a child?

southparkcpa · 11-21-2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEJet

I read a lot of your BS, but this one is pure stooooopidity

You can't stand this team...each and every week you *****, whether they win or lose

Now you want the team to "release" their best two players?

Seriously, how old are you. Should I bother rationalizing with a child?

I was not addressing you nor responding to anything related to you.

Dont like it...GFY.

Put me on ignore douchebag.

sg3 · 11-21-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEJet

I read a lot of your BS, but this one is pure stooooopidity

You can't stand this team...each and every week you *****, whether they win or lose

Now you want the team to "release" their best two players?

Seriously, how old are you. Should I bother rationalizing with a child?

+1

Pretty funny really...when you think about..

SOJFs whine that Tanny is a bad GM because he is a "beancounter"

And now this SOJF who really IS A BEAN COUNTER is pretending to be a GM and calling for two incredibly bad football transactions for the Jets

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

JonEJet · 11-21-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

I was not addressing you nor responding to anything related to you.

Dont like it...GFY.

Put me on ignore douchebag.

Nah, I enjoy the comedy, friend

Happy Thanksgiving

southparkcpa · 11-21-2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sg3

+1

Pretty funny really...when you think about..

SOJFs whine that Tanny is a bad GM because he is a "beancounter"

And now this SOJF who really IS A BEAN COUNTER is pretending to be a GM and calling for two incredibly bad football transactions for the Jets

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

hey knucklehead ...what I said was that I like this team without MEVIS and HOLMES.

MEVIS..a GREAT player, is selfish. His demands limit the TEAM. His holdout will be a short year away.

Even a homer like you can understand that. You know TEAM. I apologize for wanting to win. You and JON E Homer would root for a JET if they murdered someone.

And yes...the HOLMES contract was ridiculous.

I let Tannys GM skills speak for themselves. ince 2010....our FO moves are no better than average.

southparkcpa · 11-21-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEJet

Nah, I enjoy the comedy, friend

Happy Thanksgiving

OK...you too.

BTW...for the record, I have us beating the PATS.

I like Kerley, Coples, Wilk , Cro etc. I think we are close. Guys stepping outnof the shadow of MEVIS holdout and Holmes is refreshing.

detjetsfan · 11-21-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Nut

He never was a genius, he's a good coach with as great QB. And a cheating program. Love that the same press that is too quick to make someone into a genius then can't wait to knock someone off that mantle.

I agree with this.

Give any half-way decent NFL Head Coach Tom Brady his entire career and they'll look amazing too. Belichick will be running out of New England the day Brady retires.

Spectre · 11-21-2012, 03:04 PM

Not sure why anyone here would think BB would retire with Brady. If he's as much of an egotistical coach as most here think he is, he'll stick around to bring the Pats to another title.

Be prepared for another 3 or 4 years more of Brady at QB. His successor probably isn't on the Pats roster as of now.

CanadaSteve · 11-21-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funaz

I think Bill sticks around a few years after Brady retires to prove that BRADY was the reason they won.

Fixed.

ASG0531 · 11-21-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectre

Not sure why anyone here would think BB would retire with Brady. If he's as much of an egotistical coach as most here think he is, he'll stick around to bring the Pats to another title.

Be prepared for another 3 or 4 years more of Brady at QB. His successor probably isn't on the Pats roster as of now.

If Belichick cared as much about his legacy or image as some people think he does, he'd have done a press conference, wrote a book or done something in the wake of Spygate. But he didn't Because he just. doesn't. give. a. ****. Dude's been coaching for 37 years, I don't think he's tying his life to Brady. He'll leave whenever he decides to leave.

11-21-2012, 08:19 AM	#61
CleatMarks All League Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,608	Why does anyone care about BB's status? It's like a bunch of high school kids jockeying to be the coolest. Who cares?

11-21-2012, 08:47 AM	#63
124 There's NO reason to delay the process. Start Geno Smith. All Pro Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,970	All I need to look at is Belichick's pre-Brady record vs. his post-Brady record. It isn't even close who the real genius is in New England. It's the Quarterback. Still a very, very good coach though.

11-21-2012, 09:24 AM	#65
Rob0729 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,306	Now I can see why you guys complain about the NY media. I don't have problem with a NY paper questioning Belichick's genius status, but to do it based on him playing Gronk on a PAT attempt is pretty stupid. As Tom Jackson pointed out, teams do not have a PAT team depth chart and most teams still play starters on those plays even after they pull starters in a blowout. Teams only have 45 man active roster, and of those 45 players, only 10-12 guys (at most) are suited to block on the PAT team. They ain't putting Danny Woodhead on the line to block. Also, when was the last time anyone got seriously injured blocking a PAT attempt especially in a blowout? Someone gets a significant injury on PAT attempts every 5-10 years. Gronk wasn't much more likely to get injured on that play than tripping on his shoe laces on the sidelines. It was a fluke injury. You can question him playing on the play before that when he scored the TD, but most coaches would have played Gronk on the PAT because they had no other players to do it. You need 9 big bodies who can block on the line on PAT attempts. I really don't care if Belichick is considered a genius or not. It doesn't do anything to affect the play on the field. But at least come up with a decent argument which is based in some football reality.

11-21-2012, 10:22 AM	#67
Jet Nut Wise madness is better than foolish sanity.... Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Manalapan Posts: 11,125	He never was a genius, he's a good coach with as great QB. And a cheating program. Love that the same press that is too quick to make someone into a genius then can't wait to knock someone off that mantle.

11-21-2012, 10:23 AM	#68
thebigragu Downright Brilliant All Pro Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Staten Island Posts: 7,828	No and the Jets still suck. Next

11-21-2012, 10:37 AM	#69
FF2® Believes Sloppy Guy was involved JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 46,221	Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein.

11-21-2012, 03:04 PM	#78
Spectre N40 48.79182 W74 4.48859 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 572	Not sure why anyone here would think BB would retire with Brady. If he's as much of an egotistical coach as most here think he is, he'll stick around to bring the Pats to another title. Be prepared for another 3 or 4 years more of Brady at QB. His successor probably isn't on the Pats roster as of now.