Rex Draft Input

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

Why do people keep listing those Smiths as if they were great picks? Harris doesn't count twice, and he isn't that great as evidenced by his subpar play this year with Pouha, and Ellis hurting. They let Vilma walk for nothing. Coples, Ellis, and Wilkerson, are all going to be great players.

Vilma didn't fit Mangini's 3-4 system, was coming off knee surgery and about to be a FA. There wasn't much leverage in the trade market.

[cant wait]

Originally Posted by C Mart

What? He wanted Sanchez. Said it to Tanny during Sanchez's pro day.

The Greene selection as has been posted a million times was Bradway and Clinkscales pleading with Tanny to trade up to get him. The Jets had a 1st round grade on Greene Tanny resisted initially not wanting to give up extra picks. But Clinkscales and Bradway persisted. Rex was reported to have said during this discussion that Ozzie Newsome always said "take the best player". Tanny finally made the trade with Detroit to select Greene

I'm not sure rex was the guy that made the decision to trade for sanchez though. I'm sure he was on board with the idea with tanny when he signed with the team. I really don't know how to feel about sanchez... I'm disappointed that he's been so bad this year but the last three seasons really made you think that the kid had something special, he wasn't great by any means but he stepped up in big moments and played his a$$ off in road playoff games against great teams. flash forward to this year where we pair sanchez with our NCAA WR's and poor pass protection and we've got a real mess of an offense. I still think there's a chance sanchez can be fixed but we damn well better get some more talent there on offense

[barkus]

Originally Posted by cant wait

I actually remember hearing the interview with coples on sirius NFL right before the draft where he said that rex had told him that the jets would take him at #16, but it was reported somewhere like a month ago that he wanted to draft jones but was overruled. either way the jury is still out on coples... I think he's progressing okay for a guy coming to a system and being asked to play 5-technique. I think rex ryan knows a little bit about D-Lineman, so wouldn't you want his input when it comes to those players?

Rex wanted Coples and personally worked him out. The jets scouts liked jones more but Rex felt he was too light and wouldn't hold up vs the run. Coples had a bigger body and he felt he would fit his D better.

It was also reported that bradway loved Russell Wilson but I'm not sure if or where he was on our draft board. Rex also personally picked Connor who is now out the NFL. The point is Rex is terrible at evaluating talent, you combine that with Tanny who sucks too, and there is the problem.

Rex also handpicked Tony Morono so his ability to put together a coaching staff is up for debate too.

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by C Mart

Vilma didn't fit Mangini's 3-4 system, was coming off knee surgery and about to be a FA. There wasn't much leverage in the trade market.

I've got to tell you that Harris doesn't get off blocks any better than Vilma. The difference is that Vilma didn't have a Jenkins, or an emerging Pouha, along with Bart Scott to take on the blockers. You can see that this year with Pouha, and Ellis hurt, along with Bart being old.

[Vinny Testaverde's Niece]

Originally Posted by cant wait

don't forget woody having the team surrender a 4th and a 6th round pick in exchange for tim tebow™

How can I ?

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by cant wait

I really don't know how to feel about sanchez... I'm disappointed that he's been so bad this year but the last three seasons really made you think that the kid had something special, he wasn't great by any means but he stepped up in big moments and played his a$$ off in road playoff games against great teams. flash forward to this year where we pair sanchez with our NCAA WR's and poor pass protection and we've got a real mess of an offense. I still think there's a chance sanchez can be fixed but we damn well better get some more talent there on offense

Better coaching will make more of a difference and improvement out of the RT and OG positions.

[pcola]

Regardless of who gives their input, the draft, good or bad is a reflection of the GM. What no one talks about is that the GM has gone against the scouting department's recommendation on more than one occasion. This includes taking Coples over Ingram and Jones.

Its not the GMs job to follows orders of the HC. Its his job to listen to the scouting Dept. and the HC and then mediate a consensus on a pick. At least with the first rounder.

The biggest indictment on Tanny is the fact that we as an organization, have no depth, yet we cut half our draft class before their first NFL game this year.

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by barkus

Rex wanted Coples and personally worked him out. The jets scouts liked jones more but Rex felt he was too light and wouldn't hold up vs the run. Coples had a bigger body and he felt he would fit his D better.

It was also reported that bradway loved Russell Wilson but I'm not sure if or where he was on our draft board. Rex also personally picked Connor who is now out the NFL. The point is Rex is terrible at evaluating talent, you combine that with Tanny who sucks too, and there is the problem.

Rex also handpicked Tony Morono so his ability to put together a coaching staff is up for debate too.

They play completely different positions. In fact Coples plays 3 different positions, and Jones hasn't kept up the pace from early in the season, as Coples has kept improving. Coples will be the better pick. Would be great with a Jones next to him, and a Wilfork too for that matter, or a healthy Ellis.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by pcola

Regardless of who gives their input, the draft, good or bad is a reflection of the GM. What no one talks about is that the GM has gone against the scouting department's recommendation on more than one occasion. This includes taking Coples over Ingram and Jones.

Its not the GMs job to follows orders of the HC. Its his job to listen to the scouting Dept. and the HC and then mediate a consensus on a pick. At least with the first rounder.

The biggest indictment on Tanny is the fact that we as an organization, have no depth, yet we cut half our draft class before their first NFL game this year.

So you prescribe to the theory that the players entering the NFL are a finished product.

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by pcola

Regardless of who gives their input, the draft, good or bad is a reflection of the GM. What no one talks about is that the GM has gone against the scouting department's recommendation on more than one occasion. This includes taking Coples over Ingram and Jones.

Its not the GMs job to follows orders of the HC. Its his job to listen to the scouting Dept. and the HC and then mediate a consensus on a pick. At least with the first rounder.

The biggest indictment on Tanny is the fact that we as an organization, have no depth, yet we cut half our draft class before their first NFL game this year.

Yes it seems as if Rex needs to be the GM as well as the HC here, and he is really not suited to that. He needs to be left to focus on coaching, and being with the players, not be a part of management. We need a GM with a plan.

[cant wait]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

Yes it seems as if Rex needs to be the GM as well as the HC here, and he is really not suited to that. He needs to be left to focus on coaching, and being with the players, not be a part of management. We need a GM with a plan.

yeah I'm inclined to agree. tanny's responsibility is to get the talent and there isn't enough of that on this team right now. I think he's good with the cap but irresponsible with picks at times

[pcola]

Originally Posted by C Mart

So you prescribe to the theory that the players entering the NFL are a finished product.

Not sure what you are referring to? In fact my post states the opposite. Cutting our half of our draft class, is a desperate, short-sighted act by an insecure front office.

A lower round draft pick has to meet one of two criteria, come in and play a role, or sit and learn to provide some depth down the road. if you can determine that the player won't fulfill either than cut him. Its OK to miss on a pick, but giving up on 4 picks before they play their first meaningful game is a failure on the front office. Cutting them and bouncing them back and forth on the practice squad is just puzzling.

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by cant wait

yeah I'm inclined to agree. tanny's responsibility is to get the talent and there isn't enough of that on this team right now. I think he's good with the cap but irresponsible with picks at times

I don't know that it is his responsibility, but I know Rex spends way too much of his time doing things that a real GM should be doing, and he's a players coach. Terrible combination, and coaches normally don't get involved in management so they can avoid alienating the players.There's also been talk of him not developing players. Well he doesn't spend enough time doing that. He needs to coach, and let a real GM develop a plan to make an overall balanced team, and make the tough decisions on letting go of aging, or talentless popular players, and taking the heat off of the coaches.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by pcola

Not sure what you are referring to? In fact my post states the opposite. Cutting our half of our draft class, is a desperate, short-sighted act by an insecure front office.

A lower round draft pick has to meet one of two criteria, come in and play a role, or sit and learn to provide some depth down the road. if you can determine that the player won't fulfill either than cut him. Its OK to miss on a pick, but giving up on 4 picks before they play their first meaningful game is a failure on the front office. Cutting them and bouncing them back and forth on the practice squad is just puzzling.

Those four picks were approx #202, 203, 242 and 244 out of approx 250 picks. We're not talking about picks in the top 100 or even 150

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by pcola

Not sure what you are referring to? In fact my post states the opposite. Cutting our half of our draft class, is a desperate, short-sighted act by an insecure front office.

A lower round draft pick has to meet one of two criteria, come in and play a role, or sit and learn to provide some depth down the road. if you can determine that the player won't fulfill either than cut him. Its OK to miss on a pick, but giving up on 4 picks before they play their first meaningful game is a failure on the front office. Cutting them and bouncing them back and forth on the practice squad is just puzzling.

Every team cuts half it's draft picks. We have one of the highest rates in the league of draft picks playing. Belicheck cuts 3/4th of his picks every year.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

I don't know that it is his responsibility, but I know Rex spends way too much of his time doing things that a real GM should be doing, and he's a players coach. Terrible combination, and coaches normally don't get involved in management so they can avoid alienating the players.There's also been talk of him not developing players. Well he doesn't spend enough time doing that. He needs to coach, and let a real GM develop a plan to make an overall balanced team, and make the tough decisions on letting go of aging, or talentless popular players, and taking the heat off of the coaches.

What is he doing that a GM should be doing? Please explain.

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by C Mart

You guys make it seem like the guy picked will be the same player for 10 yrs in the NFL. The player selection is just the beginning of their NFL career. How that player progresses or regresses is dependent on many factors with one major factor being how he is taught, coached, instilled with discipline, developed, and used by the coaching staff.

Overall, it's quite evident under Rex's watch the Jets players have underperformed and in many cases regressed.

You raise an interesting point, but you neglect to point out these two truths that reflect poorer on the GM than HC:

1) We have had less draft picks than every other team in the last 5 years. This forces the Jets to load up on UDFA's and play in the bargain bin for post-camp cuts. For every Mike DeVito, you have 10 Donovan Warrens and Caleb Schlauderaffs.

2) We have drafted more "project" picks than nearly other team, whether they were raw coming out of college or played at a small school: Kyle Wilson, Vlad Ducasse, Muhammad Wilkerson, Kenrick Ellis, Stephen Hill, Demario Davis. All of these guys were drafted in the first three rounds!! This is borderline absurd. Sure, some pan out and have high upside, but when you draft so many of these guys, you're going to have a high percentage of busts.


These two truths prove that Tannenbaum does a horrible job of playing the percentages and weighing risk/reward and floor/ceiling. Expecting Rex to turn all these projects, way more than any team has, is a little unrealistic and foolish IMO.

And I haven't even addressed his fecklessness when it comes to replacing aging productive offensive players. High priced Faneca and Woody were surrounded by upcoming stars on the cheap like D'Brick and Mangold. Now we have high priced D'Brick and Mangold surrounded by a 6th round JAG in Slauson and another team's UDFA in Austin Howard. That blade falls on Tanny's head, not Rex's.

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by C Mart

What is he doing that a GM should be doing? Please explain.

I'm just assuming that he's responsible for the roster. Everyone knows that Tanny is not a football man. Some coaches love to have all that responsibility, but I think Rex is ill suited for that role, and it's sapping the life out of him, and the team. He needs a GM that can take as much of the focus off Rex as possible. Preferable a rigid, organized disciplinarian in a suit, and not cargo shorts, and sandals with socks. If it's Tanny making the personnel decisions then it's no wonder we're in the state we're in.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

You raise an interesting point, but you neglect to point out these two truths that reflect poorer on the GM than HC:

1) We have had less draft picks than every other team in the last 5 years. This forces the Jets to load up on UDFA's and play in the bargain bin for post-camp cuts. For every Mike DeVito, you have 10 Donovan Warrens and Caleb Schlauderaffs.

2) We have drafted more "project" picks than nearly other team, whether they were raw coming out of college or played at a small school: Kyle Wilson, Vlad Ducasse, Muhammad Wilkerson, Kenrick Ellis, Stephen Hill, Demario Davis. All of these guys were drafted in the first three rounds!! This is borderline absurd. Sure, some pan out and have high upside, but when you draft so many of these guys, you're going to have a high percentage of busts.


These two truths prove that Tannenbaum does a horrible job of playing the percentages and weighing risk/reward and floor/ceiling. Expecting Rex to turn all these projects, way more than any team has, is a little unrealistic and foolish IMO.

And I haven't even addressed his fecklessness when it comes to replacing aging productive offensive players. High priced Faneca and Woody were surrounded by upcoming stars on the cheap like D'Brick and Mangold. Now we have high priced D'Brick and Mangold surrounded by a 6th round JAG in Slauson and another team's UDFA in Austin Howard. That blade falls on Tanny's head, not Rex's.

Faneca was done as evidenced by his play and retirement in AZ. Woody sucked his last yr. he was out of shape, couldn't move and was getting hurt.

Who defines "project"? And anyone expecting 1st yr players to come in and become all pros isnt being realistic.

Besides 7 months ago when they were selected people here were saying how the Jets stole Hill and drooling over Davis

All those picks you mentioned were selected in the rounds (give or take a round) where the pre draft experts had them graded. If they were coached properly instead of being at Club Rex there's a chance they'd be further along.

The draft isn't just Tanny. I've posted the process a million times. It's Bradways/Clinkscales (b4 he left) along with Tanny and Rex. If there isn't a consensus on the pick then Tanny has final say

All position coaches review and grade the prospective players within their positions. Not to mention all the college scouts and their reports.

It's all loaded into a database and a draft able round grade is assigned

Tanny has said he goes into each round with 5-6 players they've deemed are their guys for their pick. When the '11 5th round evolved the only player left of the 5-6 they wanted was Kerley so they traded up to ensure they got him.

I'd like to hear from the NFL scouts their take on the difference between a 6th/7th rounder and an UDFA. I bet it isn't much.

But the football side of things all rolls up under Tanny. So he does deserve blame for the crap product we are seeing. But no way in hell does Rex get any pass. The blade falls on him too.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

I'm just assuming that he's responsible for the roster. Everyone knows that Tanny is not a football man. Some coaches love to have all that responsibility, but I think Rex is ill suited for that role, and it's sapping the life out of him, and the team. He needs a GM that can take as much of the focus off Rex as possible. Preferable a rigid, organized disciplinarian in a suit, and not cargo shorts, and sandals with socks. If it's Tanny making the personnel decisions then it's no wonder we're in the state we're in.

He's taking the input from Bradway, Cohen and the other FO guys and in consultation with Rex making decisions.

Are you saying you don't want the HCs input?