No fear for Jobs, no consequence for poor performance

[ASH_1962]

This is the main problem with the Rex Ryan regime imo. Each and every player on this team is comfortable and content with his position at this time. They know full well that there is no chance that Rex will cut anyone (Bart Slow) or bench anyone (Benny Hill Jr. aka Bozo the clown-our QB) so they can perform however they want and (not) prepare however they want and if it goes poorly like it did in the Thanksgiving Evening Nationally televised "Embarrassment Bowl", well, so be it. Nobody over there cares. Imagine a large Corporation (J&J perhaps???) allowing it's employees to do whatever they want with no fear of job loss. That Company would be out of business in no time flat.

For all of you that think Rex is a good HC and should be brought back I beg you to think again. Look at the big picture. He hired Tony Sparano to be his OC after interviewing Todd Haley for example. Sparano was a loser at Miami, his players were and are losers, yet he and some of them wound up here as well. How? Why? We listened to, and rode on the Bulls*it Express all Summer during a TD'less, 0-4 embarassment of a pre season about how they were keeping this new offensive strategy under wraps until the Regular Season began. What a load of crap. They have demonstrated that they have no idea WTF they are doing. The pre season is garbage, everyone knows it, yet this team managed to make garbage football that nobody cares about embarassing. Quite a feat if you ask me.

Now Fireman Ed up & quits Jet Fandom. LOL j/k...

Seriously though, this is not the SOJ.

It is worse.

[SlickBri481]

The lack of accountability is bad at this point. Does Rex ever bench underperforming guys? It seems as if he rarely does. Sanchez is the most glaring example. He can go out, have a horrendous game, then blame it on bad luck and take no responsibility. Rex doesn't seem to care about his comments or attitude, he "gives us the best chance to win." Why? Because Rex thinks so. The Sparano hiring was a terrible decision by Rex and shows how out of touch he is on offense. There were better names out there, guys who had better credentials, but Rex went with a former HC willing to buy into his antequated "ground and pound" scheme

[ASH_1962]

to me, this is the main reason why we need a house cleaning. A Leopard does not change his spots, and Rex will, unfotunately, never be a good administrator.

[Nike]

clean house hire a new gm and let him build the coaching staff and then evaluate all the players let the new head coach cut whoever he feels should go even if it includes sanchez and we take the hit financially.

[eaglenj]

If woody actually has a clue and wants this organization to be successful, all he needs to do is ask himself, what exactly does rex do well?

Personnel?
Clock/game management?
Leadership?
Team Management - selecting coaches, having 53 guys play as 1
Xs and Os?
Ability to adapt to the game?
"Running the ship"

If he is honest with himself, he will find the following answers.

Rex is a good defensive coach, who was probably overrated due to coaching a team with Ray Lewis, Ed reed and suggs. He has no offensive accumen at all and cannot manage timeouts or the clock.

He stuck with schotty for too long, kept cavanaugh for no reason and selected a poor OC in sparano. (also had mark carrier, a former DB coach the defensive line)

His lockerroom is a sideshow - between anonymous quotes, players not supporting each other, strength coaches tripping players during the game, and he himself openly fueding with other nfl players (channign crowder etc).

He has remained stubbornly loyal to players that simply are not talented enough to be on the field anymore while shunning the development of the young players on the roster (demario davis and blial powell to name 2).

None of the above is my opinion. Those are all facts from his HC career. Looking at that, how could you possibly look at what has transpired here the past 2 seasons and think that Rex should continue to be an NFL head coach?

[Nike]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

If woody actually has a clue and wants this organization to be successful, all he needs to do is ask himself, what exactly does rex do well?

Personnel?
Clock/game management?
Leadership?
Team Management - selecting coaches, having 53 guys play as 1
Xs and Os?
Ability to adapt to the game?
"Running the ship"

If he is honest with himself, he will find the following answers.

Rex is a good defensive coach, who was probably overrated due to coaching a team with Ray Lewis, Ed reed and suggs. He has no offensive accumen at all and cannot manage timeouts or the clock.

He stuck with schotty for too long, kept cavanaugh for no reason and selected a poor OC in sparano. (also had mark carrier, a former DB coach the defensive line)

His lockerroom is a sideshow - between anonymous quotes, players not supporting each other, strength coaches tripping players during the game, and he himself openly fueding with other nfl players (channign crowder etc).

He has remained stubbornly loyal to players that simply are not talented enough to be on the field anymore while shunning the development of the young players on the roster (demario davis and blial powell to name 2).

None of the above is my opinion. Those are all facts from his HC career. Looking at that, how could you possibly look at what has transpired here the past 2 seasons and think that Rex should continue to be an NFL head coach?

great post.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

If woody actually has a clue and wants this organization to be successful, all he needs to do is ask himself, what exactly does rex do well?

Personnel?
Clock/game management?
Leadership?
Team Management - selecting coaches, having 53 guys play as 1
Xs and Os?
Ability to adapt to the game?
"Running the ship"

If he is honest with himself, he will find the following answers.

Rex is a good defensive coach, who was probably overrated due to coaching a team with Ray Lewis, Ed reed and suggs. He has no offensive accumen at all and cannot manage timeouts or the clock.

He stuck with schotty for too long, kept cavanaugh for no reason and selected a poor OC in sparano. (also had mark carrier, a former DB coach the defensive line)

His lockerroom is a sideshow - between anonymous quotes, players not supporting each other, strength coaches tripping players during the game, and he himself openly fueding with other nfl players (channign crowder etc).

He has remained stubbornly loyal to players that simply are not talented enough to be on the field anymore while shunning the development of the young players on the roster (demario davis and blial powell to name 2).

None of the above is my opinion. Those are all facts from his HC career. Looking at that, how could you possibly look at what has transpired here the past 2 seasons and think that Rex should continue to be an NFL head coach?

Unde the theory that what else is out there to coach the team could be far, far worse. Let's not forget that Rex has had success and he's had a lot of it while never having a top-ter QB. The list of head coaches around the league that can say that is very small. Conversely, the list of assistant coaches and former college coaches who get a chance to coach in the NFL and never achieve anything close to what Rex has done is very high. It's just such a risk bringing in someone new. We've seen plenty of failures here already. At least Rex has a track record of success and puts a good D on the field (usually). The alternatives could be far, far worse. Nothing you said is incorrect, but every team that is 4-7 (or worse) right now has a similar laundry list of complaints against the present coach but mostly without the previous success by that regime.

[sect313]

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

The lack of accountability is bad at this point. Does Rex ever bench underperforming guys? It seems as if he rarely does. Sanchez is the most glaring example. He can go out, have a horrendous game, then blame it on bad luck and take no responsibility. Rex doesn't seem to care about his comments or attitude, he "gives us the best chance to win." Why? Because Rex thinks so. The Sparano hiring was a terrible decision by Rex and shows how out of touch he is on offense. There were better names out there, guys who had better credentials, but Rex went with a former HC willing to buy into his antequated "ground and pound" scheme

finally took out Bart Scott on some plays. but thats about it.

most telling example is Eric Smith

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by ASH_1962

This is the main problem with the Rex Ryan regime imo. Each and every player on this team is comfortable and content with his position at this time. They know full well that there is no chance that Rex will cut anyone (Bart Slow) or bench anyone (Benny Hill Jr. aka Bozo the clown-our QB) so they can perform however they want and (not) prepare however they want and if it goes poorly like it did in the Thanksgiving Evening Nationally televised "Embarrassment Bowl", well, so be it. Nobody over there cares. Imagine a large Corporation (J&J perhaps???) allowing it's employees to do whatever they want with no fear of job loss. That Company would be out of business in no time flat.

For all of you that think Rex is a good HC and should be brought back I beg you to think again. Look at the big picture. He hired Tony Sparano to be his OC after interviewing Todd Haley for example. Sparano was a loser at Miami, his players were and are losers, yet he and some of them wound up here as well. How? Why? We listened to, and rode on the Bulls*it Express all Summer during a TD'less, 0-4 embarassment of a pre season about how they were keeping this new offensive strategy under wraps until the Regular Season began. What a load of crap. They have demonstrated that they have no idea WTF they are doing. The pre season is garbage, everyone knows it, yet this team managed to make garbage football that nobody cares about embarassing. Quite a feat if you ask me.

Now Fireman Ed up & quits Jet Fandom. LOL j/k...

Seriously though, this is not the SOJ.

It is worse.

Ash, I agree with you on all of this. This is the height of emabrrassment. It is worse than anything I've seen recently, and as any Jet fan can tell you there are a lot of embarrassing moments in the organization's history.

But I keep on thinking about simply reacting to this could be a knee jerk reaction. I'm not going to try and tell you that Rex doesn't leave some things to be desired. There are areas for improvement.

I just believe what's lost in this is the good things he did for our organization. He took us to two consecutive AFC Championships and that's a feat that NO other Jets HC including Parcells has ever done.

The duration of your coaching tenure should be lengthened when you do good things for the organization. Rex has done good things for the organization. So I believe giving him another season is the right thing to do.

It takes a long time to find a decent HC and it seems, at least to me, that the Jets have finally found it. So simply blowing it up without giving it much thought because you are embarrassed is a rash decision.

I say that being just as, if not more disgusted with the team and it's coaching staff and front office.

I mean who is to say if Rex is totally responsible for this? I can definitely see Tanny playing a major role in this. In fact, I believe he is the main culprit. He's the guy that puts the players on the team that Rex is allowed to coach. If you see a lack of talent on the team, which I certainly do, that falls on Tanny.

Give the tandem one more season to get things right. They were on the right track for a while. It may have derailed now, but where they got close once before, odds are they could do it again.

[Winstonbiggs]

Originally Posted by ASH_1962

This is the main problem with the Rex Ryan regime imo. Each and every player on this team is comfortable and content with his position at this time. They know full well that there is no chance that Rex will cut anyone (Bart Slow) or bench anyone (Benny Hill Jr. aka Bozo the clown-our QB) so they can perform however they want and (not) prepare however they want and if it goes poorly like it did in the Thanksgiving Evening Nationally televised "Embarrassment Bowl", well, so be it. Nobody over there cares. Imagine a large Corporation (J&J perhaps???) allowing it's employees to do whatever they want with no fear of job loss. That Company would be out of business in no time flat.

For all of you that think Rex is a good HC and should be brought back I beg you to think again. Look at the big picture. He hired Tony Sparano to be his OC after interviewing Todd Haley for example. Sparano was a loser at Miami, his players were and are losers, yet he and some of them wound up here as well. How? Why? We listened to, and rode on the Bulls*it Express all Summer during a TD'less, 0-4 embarassment of a pre season about how they were keeping this new offensive strategy under wraps until the Regular Season began. What a load of crap. They have demonstrated that they have no idea WTF they are doing. The pre season is garbage, everyone knows it, yet this team managed to make garbage football that nobody cares about embarassing. Quite a feat if you ask me.

Now Fireman Ed up & quits Jet Fandom. LOL j/k...

Seriously though, this is not the SOJ.

It is worse.

What makes you think Rex had anything to do with or any choice over the hire of Sparono? What makes you think Rex has any control over personal or coaches with the exception of the D?

I have seen nothing about Rex or Tanny that makes me think they are anything more then taking orders to drive sales.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by ASH_1962

This is the main problem with the Rex Ryan regime imo. Each and every player on this team is comfortable and content with his position at this time. They know full well that there is no chance that Rex will cut anyone (Bart Slow) or bench anyone (Benny Hill Jr. aka Bozo the clown-our QB) so they can perform however they want and (not) prepare however they want and if it goes poorly like it did in the Thanksgiving Evening Nationally televised "Embarrassment Bowl", well, so be it. Nobody over there cares. Imagine a large Corporation (J&J perhaps???) allowing it's employees to do whatever they want with no fear of job loss. That Company would be out of business in no time flat.

For all of you that think Rex is a good HC and should be brought back I beg you to think again. Look at the big picture. He hired Tony Sparano to be his OC after interviewing Todd Haley for example. Sparano was a loser at Miami, his players were and are losers, yet he and some of them wound up here as well. How? Why? We listened to, and rode on the Bulls*it Express all Summer during a TD'less, 0-4 embarassment of a pre season about how they were keeping this new offensive strategy under wraps until the Regular Season began. What a load of crap. They have demonstrated that they have no idea WTF they are doing. The pre season is garbage, everyone knows it, yet this team managed to make garbage football that nobody cares about embarassing. Quite a feat if you ask me.

Now Fireman Ed up & quits Jet Fandom. LOL j/k...

Seriously though, this is not the SOJ.

It is worse.

You'd have to lay forth a case, with evidence, that we have players and talent sitting that have earned a chance to play over those who are playing now.

It's not enough to say "where is the accountabillity" if the player behind the failing player is a clear downgrade.

For example, playing McElroy. He's not going to get a chance, because to the staff he's a massive downgrade from even the pathetic that is Sanchez.

By the way, if you "rode the bull**** express", you're a moron. As is anyone who actually takes a single word of Coachspeak seriously, from any coach, of any NFL team, ever. You get what you deserve if you're that gullible.

So have at it, make the case that we have starter-level talent better than our current starters who should eb played, and hence accountabillity provided to those starters.

If you don't or can't, then the accountabillity will be post-season when players are cut, salaries re-neg'd and/or not picked up around the league.

Asking for mid-season accountabillity is silly generally, as starters are starters because even if they're doing poorly, they're still much better than the JAG's behind them on the chart.

Simply playing the JAG just to have "accountabillity" is nothing to be happy about.

Of course we fans aren;t happy......that does not warrant self-immolation of playing third stringers for ****s and giggles.

Your comparison to Business is worse, as the Jets are clearly doing just fine playing badly, same as the Redskins always did. In the NFL, wins =/= fiscal success. IN fiscal terms, somethign like Tebow is a brilliant move everywhere but on the field.

[ASH_1962]

Originally Posted by Warfish

You'd have to lay forth a case, with evidence, that we have players and talent sitting that have earned a chance to play over those who are playing now.

It's not enough to say "where is the accountabillity" if the player behind the failing player is a clear downgrade.

For example, playing McElroy. He's not going to get a chance, because to the staff he's a massive downgrade from even the pathetic that is Sanchez.

By the way, if you "rode the bull**** express", you're a moron. As is anyone who actually takes a single word of Coachspeak seriously, from any coach, of any NFL team, ever. You get what you deserve if you're that gullible.

So have at it, make the case that we have starter-level talent better than our current starters who should eb played, and hence accountabillity provided to those starters.

If you don't or can't, then the accountabillity will be post-season when players are cut, salaries re-neg'd and/or not picked up around the league.

Asking for mid-season accountabillity is silly generally, as starters are starters because even if they're doing poorly, they're still much better than the JAG's behind them on the chart.

Simply playing the JAG just to have "accountabillity" is nothing to be happy about.

Of course we fans aren;t happy......that does not warrant self-immolation of playing third stringers for ****s and giggles.

Your comparison to Business is worse, as the Jets are clearly doing just fine playing badly, same as the Redskins always did. In the NFL, wins =/= fiscal success. IN fiscal terms, somethign like Tebow is a brilliant move everywhere but on the field.

Thanks for the insult I appreciate it. If you can't see the value in sitting players down, regardless of whether or not you think the back ups are better, well then you are the moron because with zero acountability you get zero quality, and zero quality control, all equaling zero success. Oh but you probably already knew that. My comparison to a business was spot on because I was not talking about revenue generation, hell, we all know Woody is about making money and nothing else, no, what I was talking about was quality of the product produced by the said Corporation. Genuises like yourself would probably love to have someones finger in your french fries, or someones toe nails in your box of raisin bran all due to lack of quality control. Well that is what we are seeing here, a complete lack of quality control and a complete lack of consequences for the lack of performance(s).

[ASH_1962]

Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs

What makes you think Rex had anything to do with or any choice over the hire of Sparono? What makes you think Rex has any control over personal or coaches with the exception of the D?

I have seen nothing about Rex or Tanny that makes me think they are anything more then taking orders to drive sales.

Good question. I can definitely see the GM hiring an OC without the blessing of his HC, absolutely, especially since TS is such a heralded OC

[ASH_1962]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

Ash, I agree with you on all of this. This is the height of emabrrassment. It is worse than anything I've seen recently, and as any Jet fan can tell you there are a lot of embarrassing moments in the organization's history.

But I keep on thinking about simply reacting to this could be a knee jerk reaction. I'm not going to try and tell you that Rex doesn't leave some things to be desired. There are areas for improvement.

I just believe what's lost in this is the good things he did for our organization. He took us to two consecutive AFC Championships and that's a feat that NO other Jets HC including Parcells has ever done.

The duration of your coaching tenure should be lengthened when you do good things for the organization. Rex has done good things for the organization. So I believe giving him another season is the right thing to do.

It takes a long time to find a decent HC and it seems, at least to me, that the Jets have finally found it. So simply blowing it up without giving it much thought because you are embarrassed is a rash decision.

I say that being just as, if not more disgusted with the team and it's coaching staff and front office.

I mean who is to say if Rex is totally responsible for this? I can definitely see Tanny playing a major role in this. In fact, I believe he is the main culprit. He's the guy that puts the players on the team that Rex is allowed to coach. If you see a lack of talent on the team, which I certainly do, that falls on Tanny.

Give the tandem one more season to get things right. They were on the right track for a while. It may have derailed now, but where they got close once before, odds are they could do it again.

Knee Jerk reaction? No my friend, a knee jerk reaction is calling for Rex' head after SF which I did not. A semi knee jerk reaction would have been calling for Rex head after Mia which I did not. After the bang-zoom Sanchez play Thursday night and Rex sitting there telling me that Mark gives him the best chance to win is proof enough that Rex has no clue. I personally have had enough, you do not have to agree with me and that is fine, I myself like you have been around and I think I know when it is time to change regimes, and this is definitely it, unless of course, everyone is OK with 8-8 every year then Rex here is your guy.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by ASH_1962

Thanks for the insult I appreciate it.

It's only an insult if you're of such limited imtelligence that you naively believe without question the coachspeak you hear.

I assumed you were smarter than that. if you're not, I'm sorry you believed "best team ever" rhetoric of an NFL Coach.

If you can't see the value in sitting players down, regardless of whether or not you think the back ups are better, well then you are the moron because with zero acountability you get zero quality, and zero quality control, all equaling zero success.

Right, and when you sit down a poorly playing starter for a barely in the NFL 2nd or third stringer, and he plays worse, what then? Accountabillity at any cost of a chance for victory is like shooting yourself in the face so you don't have to blow your nose. Real accountabillity is not mid-season, it's off season, when coaches lose jobs, and players become unemployed or underpaid.

No coach in the NFL is going to play a clearly worse player for any length of time over a better player just for "accountabillity" when the whole team is playing poorly.

So lets stop these broad generalizations, if you please.

Who, specificly, should be benched and whos pecificly should be given a shot to play aghead of them that Rex and Co. has not already done. Till you provide thatm, we have no basis for serious discussion because "like, just bench some people, :accountabilltiy!:, is not a real position, it's empty generalization.

I'll give an example, the worst player most responsible for our problems is the QB, Mark Sanchez. His #2 is Tim Tebow. Should Sanchez be benched, and Tebow started?

My comparison to a business ia spot on because I was not talking about revenue generation, I was talking about quality of the product produced by the said Corporation.

Quality of product is definied by revenue generation in the entertainment field. If you're not entertained, and you are a reasonable person, you'd stop partaking of their no-longer-entertaining-or-enjoyable product.

Well that is what we are seeing here, a complete lack of quality control and a complete lack of consequences for the lack of performance(s).

No, we have a fan who unrealisticly wants mass firings, benchings and cuts and the third stringers starting left and right just to appease his understandable dissapointment and anger. Thats not accountabillity, as the staff and players are not, in fact, accountable to you or me. They are accountable only to the owner.

End of the day, it's his pleasure or displeasure Rex faces, not ours. And Owners, unlike Fans, generally handle accountabillity in the more reasonable off-season time, rather that mid-season, where it rarely serves any purpose other than ensuring additional losses and embarassment.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by Warfish

You'd have to lay forth a case, with evidence, that we have players and talent sitting that have earned a chance to play over those who are playing now.

It's not enough to say "where is the accountabillity" if the player behind the failing player is a clear downgrade.

For example, playing McElroy. He's not going to get a chance, because to the staff he's a massive downgrade from even the pathetic that is Sanchez.

By the way, if you "rode the bull**** express", you're a moron. As is anyone who actually takes a single word of Coachspeak seriously, from any coach, of any NFL team, ever. You get what you deserve if you're that gullible.

So have at it, make the case that we have starter-level talent better than our current starters who should eb played, and hence accountabillity provided to those starters.

If you don't or can't, then the accountabillity will be post-season when players are cut, salaries re-neg'd and/or not picked up around the league.

Asking for mid-season accountabillity is silly generally, as starters are starters because even if they're doing poorly, they're still much better than the JAG's behind them on the chart.

Simply playing the JAG just to have "accountabillity" is nothing to be happy about.

Of course we fans aren;t happy......that does not warrant self-immolation of playing third stringers for ****s and giggles.

Your comparison to Business is worse, as the Jets are clearly doing just fine playing badly, same as the Redskins always did. In the NFL, wins =/= fiscal success. IN fiscal terms, somethign like Tebow is a brilliant move everywhere but on the field.

Warfish, this is not one of your better posts.

Everyone, including you, KNOWS that in a situation like this changes must be made. When you have a terrible dynamic like the Jets at this time, you must take action. Sometimes certain players, while looking worse than starters in practice actually play better when you combine with a team of trained professionals. When you have underperforming starters, sometimes you get more out of there understudy. It's a chemistry thing. It's also something you would never know unless you are willing to tool around with the roster.

Fear, can sometimes create the best of competition out of everyone. The proof is also here from Rex Ryan's past. Remember Sherry Rhodes? He wasn't cutting it and it made Rex upset enough knowing he had the potential to play better that he opted to bench him in favor of Eric Smith. That's when everyone knew Eric Smith was a clear downgrade from Sherry.

Yet, the tactic brought out the best in BOTH of them as Eric Smith played admirably in Sherry's place. Sherry also came on strong in the late season and into the playoffs. He was instrumental in the Jets getting to the AFC Championship.

And if you want name replacements for current starters? I'll throw out three:

1) Greg McElroy for Mark Sanchez. Sometimes a move of this nature is addition by subtraction. That's what it would be in this case. All of the players know that Sanchez is a dead man walking. They even said as much after last season. Remember when one anonymous player said Sanchez has never been given any legitimate competition? That's basically also saying that player does not believe Sanchez is the answer.

We also do not know what McElroy has to offer unless you put him on the field and give him a legitimate shot. You do not know it. I do not know it. The Players do not know it. The CS does not know it. No one knows, and that is why in a season where we are out of playoff contention, we should see what works for this team.

2) Demario Davis for Bart Scott. You hear everyone calling for Bart's head, right? He's clearly declined in a big way since 2010. Demario Davis is a guy who always flashes when he actually gets playing time. When we KNOW Bart Scott isn't working out, and the team gave Scott permission to seek a trade during the offseason (in other words, the team doesn't even believe in Scott), then why not give the kid a shot?

3) Bilal Powell for Shonn Greene. This has already happened once earlier this season and it should be made permanent. Bilal Powell was the guy who performed the best during training camp. He won the competition with Joe McKnight hands down, and with Greene being such a disappointment, why not give the kid a shot?

Once again, we are 4-7 right now and that means change is necessary. Sometimes simple changes alone is what can spark the team. Sometimes FEAR can be a Head Coaches best friend.

[parafly]

Rex is a good defensive mind, but as far as being a Head Coach, I'm tired of the following:

Ground and Pound
Complete lack of accountability for his players
Subpar talent evaluation
Lost locker rooms
Clown show

Time to move on!

[SizzleBear287]

Rex should go into comedy or sportscasting once he loses his job- don't laugh, he's a very dynamic personality but that isn't always the best formula for a great NFL head coach.