Rex Draft Input

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by Conkboy

We have seen very few players improve under Rex's tenure... The only area where we see decent coaching has been with the DBs. We have developed any offensive lineman. We have not been able to pressure the QB in forever. We draft one dimensional players all the time. We missed with two top 5 picks in Gholston and Sanchez... All these things set a franchise back a long way.

Rex is a great Coordinator but not a good head coach, Just like Norv Turner, Wade Phillips, and his father Buddy. Nobody is developing and teaching our players. I thought the lockout set us back last year with a couple of guys but I see little improvement this year.

It is time to clean house and give a new regime a fighting chance with some of the perceived talent we have...

Well said!

[section314]

[QUOTE=Conkboy;4699272]We have seen very few players improve under Rex's tenure... The only area where we see decent coaching has been with the DBs. We have developed any offensive lineman. We have not been able to pressure the QB in forever. We draft one dimensional players all the time. We missed with two top 5 picks in Gholston and Sanchez... All these things set a franchise back a long way.

Rex is a great Coordinator but not a good head coach, Just like Norv Turner, Wade Phillips, and his father Buddy. Nobody is developing and teaching our players. I thought the lockout set us back last year with a couple of guys but I see little improvement this year.

It is time to clean house and give a new regime a fighting chance with some of the perceived talent we have...[/QUOTE
I totally agree with you, and have thought this for years. Our coaching staff does not seem to make the players better. As far as the two top 6 picks go....missing on Gholston was bad, but he was not expected to be our franchise player for years. The Sanchez pick is a disaster, and should be the end of Rex and Tanny.

[Long Suffering Jets Fan]

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

I am the first one to agree that Tannenbaum is a horrible evaluator of talent. Actually I think it goes deeper than that in the fact that he always wants to make big splash moves so the GM gets some headlines...this is due to the fact that he is arrogant and ego driven ( just look at Hardknocks ). Doing this hurts the team because it never builds any continuity due to all the turnover on the roster...

However, people keep giving Rex a pass on these drafts which is dead wrong. He has had some picks that he made personally ( ie. John Connor and Coples to name a few)..John Connor is a complete bust and Coples we were told was the Jets version of JPP..how is that working out ??!!...so he can't coach and also can't evaluate talent...it really doesn't matter though because if Tanny goes Rex is going...I hear people on these talk shows saying they need a new GM but they would keep Rex..are these people clueless ??!...when has a new GM EVER come in and not picked his own coach ??....

Paragraph 1, wholeheartedly agree. Waste draft picks and go for the big splash, which killed our depth on both sides of the ball, particularly the offense. We've had 25 draft picks to the Pats 45 in the last 5 years. I would also add signing Holmes to a huge contract was a complete waste. Could have brought in talent on both sides of the ball for what we paid for him.

Paragraph 2. Mostly agree, Conner was a 4th round pick those don't always work out, but we've done a horrible job getting blockers at the TE and RB position overall. Regarding Rex going if Tannenbaum goes, can't agree more.

[pcola]

Originally Posted by C Mart

Jets Recap Round 1 News Conf

General Manager Mike Tannenbaum, Vice President of College Scouting Joey Clinkscales and Coach Rex Ryan recap the first round pick of UNC DE Quinton Coples.

http://www.newyorkjets.com/photos-an...6-7369d6c66a9a


Coach Ryan Delivers a Scouting Report on Coples

http://www.newyorkjets.com/photos-an...5-2d47b4e5ad1e

Obviously they are going to come out and give the perception of a unified decision. The report that I was speaking of, was most likely quoting someone from the scouting department that was pissed because of all the work they put in over the year was dismissed by Tany and/or Rex.

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by C Mart

Faneca was done as evidenced by his play and retirement in AZ. Woody sucked his last yr. he was out of shape, couldn't move and was getting hurt.

The issue isn't that they let go of players that went on and play well. In fact, if there has been an inkling of sound GM'ing from Tannenbaum in the last two years, it's that we haven't hung on to declining veterans (unless our hands our tied behind our backs due to salary reasons a la Bart Scott). The issue is that we have done such a poor job replacing the veterans via the draft. The young rising stars we had during 2008-2009 like Mangold, D'Brick, Revis, Harris, etc. are now the veterans. We have almost no rising stars besides Wilkerson.

I don't even want to get into the crap he did with the receivers in 2011. It wasn't that he let Edwards go, it's that he did such an awful job replacing the departures of Edwards and Cotchery. Subbing in a 34 year old who just got out of 18 months in the pen and a 37 year old on his last legs? Awful. That's when I first started to doubt Tanny.

Originally Posted by C Mart

Who defines "project"? And anyone expecting 1st yr players to come in and become all pros isnt being realistic.

Besides 7 months ago when they were selected people here were saying how the Jets stole Hill and drooling over Davis

A project is someone who either is defined as "raw" by draft scouts or played at a small FBS school or played at an FCS school. As I pointed out in my prior post, in the last three drafts, we have taken six projects all in the first three rounds (Wilson, Ducasse, Wilkerson, Ellis, Hill, Davis).

Of those six players, only two played at FBS schools. Here is what Tony Pauline said of Hill:

"He offers the size, athleticism and the pass-catching ability to be a productive number one receiver at the next level, but he's still raw and must get acclimated to playing in a disciplined NFL offense."

That's a project.

FWIW, I actually like some of the picks and think certain guys have a good amount of upside like Hill and Davis. I also did not have high expectations for them this year. I posted numerous times how I'd be shocked if Hill put up 40 catches this year and there was a logjam ahead of Davis at ILB.

The issue, however, and why Tanny deserves the most blame is because we contractually put all our eggs in the uncapped 2010 season and paired it with a horrible draft. Even if Wilson and/or Ducasse emerge as starters, it's too little too late. The Jets needed an immediate contributor on the offensive line, or at the very least one who could contribute by 2011. Even if Ducasse emerges as a starter in 2013, he'll be in the last year of his rookie deal.

Originally Posted by C Mart

All those picks you mentioned were selected in the rounds (give or take a round) where the pre draft experts had them graded. If they were coached properly instead of being at Club Rex there's a chance they'd be further along.

The draft isn't just Tanny. I've posted the process a million times. It's Bradways/Clinkscales (b4 he left) along with Tanny and Rex. If there isn't a consensus on the pick then Tanny has final say

All position coaches review and grade the prospective players within their positions. Not to mention all the college scouts and their reports.

It's all loaded into a database and a draft able round grade is assigned

Tanny has said he goes into each round with 5-6 players they've deemed are their guys for their pick. When the '11 5th round evolved the only player left of the 5-6 they wanted was Kerley so they traded up to ensure they got him.

I'd like to hear from the NFL scouts their take on the difference between a 6th/7th rounder and an UDFA. I bet it isn't much.

But the football side of things all rolls up under Tanny. So he does deserve blame for the crap product we are seeing. But no way in hell does Rex get any pass. The blade falls on him too.

They were drafted where they were because their biggest drawbacks were either lack of competition level or raw athleticism with little polish. If they had polish, they would've been drafted much higher. The issue with drafting projects, is that they aren't ready to contribute off the bat, if ever. Like with every draft pick, there is risk. The risk is that they might not ever "get it" and come close to the upside they were originally praised for. Ultimately some of that falls on the coaching staff, but I think you're attributing too much blame in that department. Tanny's fault is that he bought too many lottery tickets and didn't balance that with immediate meat and potatoes contributors that might not have All-Pro upside.

As for the second bolded part, that's the problem with Tanny. If you're not a guy with a football background, you can over rely on your resources because you're not informed enough to grab it by the balls and make the right call.

[jets31]

Two words Terry Bradway! I think people are forgetting him. Rex and Tanny especially dont do this alone. Its a group effort.

The reason they kept Bradway was because Tanny is more of a money guy then anything else. I believe Bradway plays a huge part in the talent brought in.


Now with that being said I think many of you are all wrong on this evaluation. We are looking at each pick and expecting a home run. We need to compare out drafts to the rest of the league and especially to the teams at the top.

We cant hit on every pick, nobody can. Mangini had some great drafts but he also had probably the worst one. Most of the Rex era is still developing.

Yes there has been issues with the lack of picks but we cant say that for the last two years. They have done better with that.

They took a risk when going up to get Sanchez but if you think a guy is going to be your franchise QB then you do what you have to do to go get him. Just look at the Redskins with RGIII. He looks great now but so did Cam N. last year. If RGIII doesnt work out that teams is in trouble for years to come.

Fact is they took a risk with Sanchez and thats something I believe most any GM should and would do to get there franchise guy. Now right now its not looking so good but thats the chance you take.

Overall I dont think they have done that bad with the drafts. I havent agreed with every pick but I never will. Jury is still out on the last few years though.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by jets31

Two words Terry Bradway! I think people are forgetting him. Rex and Tanny especially dont do this alone. Its a group effort.

The reason they kept Bradway was because Tanny is more of a money guy then anything else. I believe Bradway plays a huge part in the talent brought in.


Now with that being said I think many of you are all wrong on this evaluation. We are looking at each pick and expecting a home run. We need to compare out drafts to the rest of the league and especially to the teams at the top.

We cant hit on every pick, nobody can. Mangini had some great drafts but he also had probably the worst one. Most of the Rex era is still developing.

Yes there has been issues with the lack of picks but we cant say that for the last two years. They have done better with that.

They took a risk when going up to get Sanchez but if you think a guy is going to be your franchise QB then you do what you have to do to go get him. Just look at the Redskins with RGIII. He looks great now but so did Cam N. last year. If RGIII doesnt work out that teams is in trouble for years to come.

Fact is they took a risk with Sanchez and thats something I believe most any GM should and would do to get there franchise guy. Now right now its not looking so good but thats the chance you take.

Overall I dont think they have done that bad with the drafts. I havent agreed with every pick but I never will. Jury is still out on the last few years though.

As I've mentioned a million times, Bradway and Clinkscales (before he left) and those that roll up under them, it's their job!!!!!

And with Clinkscales leaving I now see the draft is all Bradway's now:

http://www.newyorkjets.com/ms/media-...ay,-Terry.html

And this guy replaced Clinkscales

http://www.newyorkjets.com/ms/media-...uer,-Jeff.html

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by Vinny Testaverde's Niece

Isn't it a bit early to be declaring Coples a bust?

My thoughts exactly. It's way too early to be calling Coples a bust. Rex doesn't play him enough and when he does play, he normally flashes. He had pretty monster games in the preseason also, albeit against inferior competition. But at least we know the talent is there.

DL lineman normally take a little while to develop. Ease up on the criticism.

[DDNYjets]

Coples will end up being a bust. We have a terrible DL and he still doesn't see the field.

And if Vlad starts next year it wont be b.c he deserves to. It will be b.c we have no cap room to sign anyone else.

When you miss at the top of the draft, as we did two years in a row, it will set you back for years. We didn't pay the price right away b.c our two drafts prior were strong and we combined that with good FA signings (2006-2008). That is what allowed us to postpone the effects. But the chickens have come home to roost.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Coples will end up being a bust. We have a terrible DL and he still doesn't see the field.

And if Vlad starts next year it wont be b.c he deserves to. It will be b.c we have no cap room to sign anyone else.

When you miss at the top of the draft, as we did two years in a row, it will set you back for years. We didn't pay the price right away b.c our two drafts prior were strong and we combined that with good FA signings (2006-2008). That is what allowed us to postpone the effects. But the chickens have come home to roost.

What games have you been watching? Coples is playing a lot

[DDNYjets]

Originally Posted by C Mart

What games have you been watching? Coples is playing a lot

Apologies.

Haven't really noticed him since he facemasked Luck over a month ago.

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Coples will end up being a bust. We have a terrible DL and he still doesn't see the field.

And if Vlad starts next year it wont be b.c he deserves to. It will be b.c we have no cap room to sign anyone else.

When you miss at the top of the draft, as we did two years in a row, it will set you back for years. We didn't pay the price right away b.c our two drafts prior were strong and we combined that with good FA signings (2006-2008). That is what allowed us to postpone the effects. But the chickens have come home to roost.

I actually think the 2012 draft will end up being pretty good. Coples and Hill are both going to be very good players. 2011 draft we got Wilkerson who's an arguable pro bowler this season and Kerley who is a pretty good slot receiver.


Tanny's really had one awful draft as the GM and that was 2010. His real mistake is not making good mid-level free agent signings especially at the skill positions which is why you're seeing the Chaz Schilenses, Shonn Greenes and Joe McKnights making horrible season-ending fumbles.


And btw, the Tebow trade was also a fireable offense for any GM.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

And btw, the Tebow trade was also a fireable offense for any GM.

The Tebow trade was at the direction of the owner.

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by C Mart

The Tebow trade was at the direction of the owner.

If Tanny had any integrity or balls he would have put his foot down. What is this the military? GM's and Coaches piss off owners all the time.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

If Tanny had any integrity or balls he would have put his foot down. What is this the military? GM's and Coaches piss off owners all the time.

LOL. Yeah OK. I guess you always let your boss know every time you disagree with them and refuse to do what you are instructed to do.

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by C Mart

LOL. Yeah OK. I guess you always let your boss know every time you disagree with them and refuse to do what you are instructed to do.

If it's something that's totally stupid, inept and would ruin everything I would totally put my foot down and I have. That's what good middle management does. They bring the echelon above reality boys back into reality when they're off in lala land like Woody was when Tebow became available.

If Tanny is this great GM you people make him out to be he would have had a job 5 minutes after getting fired by Woody for refusing to trade for God-boy. At very least he deserves demotion back to Capologist.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

If it's something that's totally stupid, inept and would ruin everything I would totally put my foot down and I have. That's what good middle management does. They bring the echelon above reality boys back into reality when they're off in lala land like Woody was when Tebow became available.

If Tanny is this great GM you people make him out to be he would have a job 5 minutes after getting fired by Woody for refusing to trade for God-boy.

Who's saying he's a great GM?

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Apologies.

Haven't really noticed him since he facemasked Luck over a month ago.

Um, he also had 2 sacks and forced an intentional grounding that game. Oh, and he has 5 TFL this year.

Our defensive line is one of the few positives on our team going forward

[sameoldjets]

who ever said tannenbaum is a talent evaluator? he's a general manager who has delegated the evaluation process to his scouting department and rex. tanny does the contracts and makes sure there's cap space. bradway is the main evaluator and up to last season they had clinkscales. prior to that dick haley did the scouting.

what people have said is that the jets need to have a football guy manage the football aspects of the team and then keep tanny as the contracts guy. the jets need someone who can build the team and determine the right players to draft and keep and launch to keep the team moving. the guy needs to craft the overall strategy of the team. will it be pass first? will it be ground and pound? will it devote its talent to a killer defense? this is where they've fallen down by not necessarily drafting the right people or position by round. this in spite of getting guys like revis and even sanchez. but they also cost because it required the jets trade up.

imo, woody needs to bring in a group of former, successful, gm's to evaluate the jets team from top to bottom so he can better assess who to keep and who to launch. who knows, maybe he'll find the guy he really needs to run things.

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

I am the first one to agree that Tannenbaum is a horrible evaluator of talent. Actually I think it goes deeper than that in the fact that he always wants to make big splash moves so the GM gets some headlines...this is due to the fact that he is arrogant and ego driven ( just look at Hardknocks ). Doing this hurts the team because it never builds any continuity due to all the turnover on the roster...

However, people keep giving Rex a pass on these drafts which is dead wrong. He has had some picks that he made personally ( ie. John Connor and Coples to name a few)..John Connor is a complete bust and Coples we were told was the Jets version of JPP..how is that working out ??!!...so he can't coach and also can't evaluate talent...it really doesn't matter though because if Tanny goes Rex is going...I hear people on these talk shows saying they need a new GM but they would keep Rex..are these people clueless ??!...when has a new GM EVER come in and not picked his own coach ??....

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

Um, he also had 2 sacks and forced an intentional grounding that game. Oh, and he has 5 TFL this year.

Our defensive line is one of the few positives on our team going forward

He also sacked Tom Brady in NE but the sack was somehow given to David Harris. Whenever he was out there for extended periods he made plays and was visible. Even commentators at times were wondering why he doesn't see the field more.

It might again be a case of not taking the good with the bad and too much loyalty to older guys who have not played well at all so far this year (DeVito, Pace, BT)...