Dissecting the benching of Sanchez

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

I actually agree with your first paragraph. As for your second, it's doesn't refute or contradict what I said previously.

I get the sense that you want to fight because you are angry. Instead, lets hold hands and do something constructive. We are all angry.

SAR I

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

....or, if Tebow wasn't here and we used that money on a real running back or a wide receiver or got rid of Hunter sooner or never took Tony Sparano, Mark Sanchez might be having a career year.

The what-if game is fun, but leads nowhere.

SAR I

Bad thing is, a "career year" would be moving out of the bottom 5-6 of all QBs in the NFL up to being in the bottom 10-12. Impressive.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SAR I

All accurate points, all valid, all true.

The other side of the coin is that had the Jets given Mark Sanchez a proper set of tools with which to succeed, might he be a better quarterback right now? Would he be smarter with the ball? Would he throw more decisively? Would he trust his reads? Would he ball protect more? Would he have developed a tight rapport with a few receivers who know each others signals to make something out of a blown play?

It's the million dollar question, and it's the one that we can't answer until next season. Next season, that is, if whoever is running the team actually tries to find quality offensive talent instead of focusing on one side of the ball.

SAR I

SAR,

This sounds like the "Chicken and the Egg" argument.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

All accurate points, all valid, all true.

The other side of the coin is that had the Jets given Mark Sanchez a proper set of tools with which to succeed, might he be a better quarterback right now? Would he be smarter with the ball? Would he throw more decisively? Would he trust his reads? Would he ball protect more? Would he have developed a tight rapport with a few receivers who know each others signals to make something out of a blown play?

It's the million dollar question, and it's the one that we can't answer until next season. Next season, that is, if whoever is running the team actually tries to find quality offensive talent instead of focusing on one side of the ball.

SAR I

Yak yak yak.

Sanchez sucks for 2 1/2 quarters with 3 interceptions and 2 more that should have been. Freaking #3 QB comes in for his first NFL action, and with the SAME TEAM, the SAME PERSONNEL, the SAME OFFENSIVE LINE, the SAME RBs, the SAME OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR calling the plays, against the SAME DEFENSE, McElroy directs 1 long drive for a TD and another long drive down to the opponents 1 yard line.

Yeah, it's because they just didn't give Sanchez the proper set of tools !!!!

What a frakking joke.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

I get the sense that you want to fight because you are angry. Instead, lets hold hands and do something constructive. We are all angry.

SAR I

Not angry at all. I'm actually laughing at you SAR. It's gone beyond pathetic to being very sad.

Oh poor Mark, they didn't give him any tools.

[SMC]

Originally Posted by SAR I

All accurate points, all valid, all true.

The other side of the coin is that had the Jets given Mark Sanchez a proper set of tools with which to succeed, might he be a better quarterback right now? Would he be smarter with the ball? Would he throw more decisively? Would he trust his reads? Would he ball protect more? Would he have developed a tight rapport with a few receivers who know each others signals to make something out of a blown play?

It's the million dollar question, and it's the one that we can't answer until next season. Next season, that is, if whoever is running the team actually tries to find quality offensive talent instead of focusing on one side of the ball.

SAR I

This, I don't debate. I believe the Jets mismanaged Sanchez from the beginning.

A top 5 draft pick potential franchise QB is the most precious thing in the NFL, especially at the time Sanchez was drafted with the salary implications.

There is so much at stake, and the fact that they put this most precious commodity in the hands of Schitty and Cavanaugh is professional malpractice. Plus, drafting and starting a rookie QB on a veteran team makes no sense. You can't start a rookie day 1 and tell him, "Don't screw it up." That's not the way to learn the position. Then they change the receiving corps every year and then worst of all make a cancer like Holmes the centerpiece of the passing attack.

But the bottom line is that Sanchez couldve still overcome all this if he wasn't such an idiot on the field and make stupid mistake after stupid mistake.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SMC

But the bottom line is that Sanchez couldve still overcome all this if he wasn't such an idiot on the field and make stupid mistake after stupid mistake.

This is why I think that Mark needs to leave NY and go to another team that isn't a big market.



He might still suck but at least no one would care.....

[TJ]

Originally Posted by SMC

This, I don't debate. I believe the Jets mismanaged Sanchez from the beginning.

A top 5 draft pick potential franchise QB is the most precious thing in the NFL, especially at the time Sanchez was drafted with the salary implications.

There is so much at stake, and the fact that they put this most precious commodity in the hands of Schitty and Cavanaugh is professional malpractice. Plus, drafting and starting a rookie QB on a veteran team makes no sense. You can't start a rookie day 1 and tell him, "Don't screw it up." That's not the way to learn the position. Then they change the receiving corps every year and then worst of all make a cancer like Holmes the centerpiece of the passing attack.

But the bottom line is that Sanchez couldve still overcome all this if he wasn't such an idiot on the field and make stupid mistake after stupid mistake.

Perfectly stated!

[SMC]

Originally Posted by Vin

This is why I think that Mark needs to leave NY and go to another team that isn't a big market.

He might still suck but at least no one would care.....

From a Sanchez POV, the best thing for him is to get cut by the Jets this offseason and sign with the Saints or the Packers as a backup QB so he can learn from a real QB and real offensive staff.

Then in a couple of years he can have a Gannon-esque career in his 30s. He's still only 26.

[LadainianIMnotDONE]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

At 35-2 against the Pats, the game was out of hand and it's not like switching QBs would have changed that.

At 35-3 against the Pats, we weren't in a "must win" situation where our last playoff hopes were riding on a win that day.

Today ? Completely different story. Defense had played well and the game was there to be won, if only we had competent play from the QB position. Additionally, this absolutely was a "must win" situation.

Ergo: Rex finally decides to yank Sanchez after he threw 3 picks in the first half, followed by starting the second half off by having 2 passes nearly intercepted on his first 3 drives.

Why do I keep seeing "playoff" talk here ... Colts and Pitt won ... its over ..... we're not making the playoff's unless the Colts absolutely TANK it ... still plausible but after watching this game today how the hell can ANYONE on this planet think we're going to win out even with this horrible schedule? I wouldn't be shocked if Jacksonville beats us 20-6 next week .... We suck

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SMC

There is so much at stake, and the fact that they put this most precious commodity in the hands of Schitty and Cavanaugh is professional malpractice. Plus, drafting and starting a rookie QB on a veteran team makes no sense. You can't start a rookie day 1 and tell him, "Don't screw it up." That's not the way to learn the position.

Agree with you wrt Shotty and Cavanaugh. Kind of disagree with the "dont screw it up" part though. It really depends on just what was meant by that.

I mean, there's a big difference between asking a young guy to step in and be a "game manager" by practicing ball security and trying to minimize mistakes compared to making someone afraid to even take minimal risks to the point where they become paralyzed with fear.

There's more than one school of thought on QB development. Yes, one of those is that you don't start rookies. You sit them on the bench and let them learn behind a veteran QB.

BUT, another widely accepted method is to go ahead and start them. If you go this route, the best case is when they are surrounded by a good/strong team, at least on the offensive side of the ball. That is what Sanchez had. This isn't a situation like the ones faced by David Carr or Tim Couch, or even Brandon Wheedon in Cleveland this year.

BTW, we can go back through the history of the NFL and find plenty of very successful QBs who were placed in situations much worse than what Sanchez faced. Guys like Joe Namath, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman, Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw, John Elway and Dan Fouts.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by LadainianIMnotDONE

Why do I keep seeing "playoff" talk here ... Colts and Pitt won ... its over ..... we're not making the playoff's unless the Colts absolutely TANK it ... still plausible but after watching this game today how the hell can ANYONE on this planet think we're going to win out even with this horrible schedule? I wouldn't be shocked if Jacksonville beats us 20-6 next week .... We suck

Perhaps it's because at the time of the game when Sanchez was yanked, the Colts and Pitt hadn't won yet ? So, at that point, we were still in it ?

[canadianjetsfan]

Originally Posted by SAR I

All accurate points, all valid, all true.

The other side of the coin is that had the Jets given Mark Sanchez a proper set of tools with which to succeed, might he be a better quarterback right now? Would he be smarter with the ball? Would he throw more decisively? Would he trust his reads? Would he ball protect more? Would he have developed a tight rapport with a few receivers who know each others signals to make something out of a blown play?

It's the million dollar question, and it's the one that we can't answer until next season. Next season, that is, if whoever is running the team actually tries to find quality offensive talent instead of focusing on one side of the ball.

SAR I

Let’s hope Woody thanks Tanny for ruining his franchise QB while he’s being escorted out of the Jet facilities, once and for all.
We all thought that Sanchez was THE ONE.
I too hope that he’d be given a chance next year.

[SMC]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Agree with you wrt Shotty and Cavanaugh. Kind of disagree with the "dont screw it up" part though. It really depends on just what was meant by that.

I mean, there's a big difference between asking a young guy to step in and be a "game manager" by practicing ball security and trying to minimize mistakes compared to making someone afraid to even take minimal risks to the point where they become paralyzed with fear.

There's more than one school of thought on QB development. Yes, one of those is that you don't start rookies. You sit them on the bench and let them learn behind a veteran QB.

BUT, another widely accepted method is to go ahead and start them. If you go this route, the best case is when they are surrounded by a good/strong team, at least on the offensive side of the ball. That is what Sanchez had. This isn't a situation like the ones faced by David Carr or Tim Couch, or even Brandon Wheedon in Cleveland this year.

BTW, we can go back through the history of the NFL and find plenty of very successful QBs who were placed in situations much worse than what Sanchez faced. Guys like Joe Namath, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman, Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw, John Elway and Dan Fouts.

Good points, but my point is more nuanced and I think if I make myself clearer you would agree.

I'm not saying that a rookie QB should always be benched. Every situation is different and as you stated, starting first year has been good for some QBs.

I'm specifically talking about a rookie QB starting year 1 for a veteran team and, thus, being told to not make any mistakes and let the D and running game win it. That's counterproductive to a QB's development. Did you follow the Jets then when Sanchez wore the Red-Yellow-Green arm band?

That's different from the QBs you mentioned because they started for younger teams and then, in a sense, the team grew with the rookie QB who matured into a star.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Vin

SAR,

This sounds like the "Chicken and the Egg" argument.

Well, because it is.

If Mark Sanchez could lead us on a 16-4 run in his first two seasons, surely he would have improved in his next two if he had the right set of weapons.

-or-

If Mark Sanchez could have raised the ability of those around him with his charisma and stellar play, the set of weapons around him would have improved beyond their current capabilities.

Based on what I see, it's #1.

SAR I

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SMC

Good points, but my point is more nuanced and I think if I make myself clearer you would agree.

I'm not saying that a rookie QB should always be benched. Every situation is different and as you stated, starting first year has been good for some QBs.

I'm specifically talking about a rookie QB starting year 1 for a veteran team and, thus, being told to not make any mistakes and let the D and running game win it. That's counterproductive to a QB's development. Did you follow the Jets then when Sanchez wore the Red-Yellow-Green arm band?

That's different from the QBs you mentioned because they started for younger teams and then, in a sense, the team grew with the rookie QB who matured into a star.

Thanks. No, I didn't follow the Jets back then. Wasn't sure exactly what they had done with Sanchez, which is one of the reasons why I talked about both things, the "crippling of a young QB" versus a basic "ball security/game manager" approach.

I guess a good example would be Joe Flacco. He started out as a "game manager" type on a strong veteran team. His job was to basically not screw things up. He's managed to actually progress quite a bit. Still a game manager most the time, but can step out now and then. Yes, he has more weapons, but he still has to make decisions, still has to read defenses, still has to actually throw the ball, and he does all of them better much better than Sanchez does.

I'm not saying that the Jets have done everything right with Sanchez, as clearly, they haven't. But then again, no QB ever has a "perfect" situation. While the Jets have made some bad moves, much of the problem is with Sanchez himself. Basically, in my view, it doesn't matter what situation he had come into. SAR and anyone else could have crafted the absolute best, most ideal situation and Sanchez still wouldn't have progressed.

[escamoter2]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Well, because it is.

If Mark Sanchez could lead us on a 16-4 run in his first two seasons, surely he would have improved in his next two if he had the right set of weapons.

-or-

If Mark Sanchez could have raised the ability of those around him with his charisma and stellar play, the set of weapons around him would have improved beyond their current capabilities.

Based on what I see, it's #1.

SAR I

I feel like the Jets failed Sanchez like the Rams failed Everett. Everett was good at the beginning then faded fast when the offensive line couldn't block and he started developing happy feet and forcing things.

[Dreamers]

Sanchez just really wanted a hotdog and the guy was all out.

[billygreen]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Yak yak yak.

Sanchez sucks for 2 1/2 quarters with 3 interceptions and 2 more that should have been. Freaking #3 QB comes in for his first NFL action, and with the SAME TEAM, the SAME PERSONNEL, the SAME OFFENSIVE LINE, the SAME RBs, the SAME OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR calling the plays, against the SAME DEFENSE, McElroy directs 1 long drive for a TD and another long drive down to the opponents 1 yard line.

Yeah, it's because they just didn't give Sanchez the proper set of tools !!!!

What a frakking joke.

That's exactly right. The kid came in and moved the team pretty effectively with the same exact personnel on the field, and he did it immediately. Sanchez had 2 1/2 quarters to do what the kid did the second he came into the game. Sanchez brains are scrambled right now, maybe sitting a while is the best thing for him so he can think about what went wrong and study the action from the sideline should he ever get another chance again.

[SouthTown]

Originally Posted by copernicus

From an organization that is never at a loss for drama in everything they do, the benching of Sanchez does not disappoint.

The benching of Sanchez has been debated for weeks. Why did Rex pull the trigger this week after having such strong feelings about him as the starter?

- The player that was traded for 2 picks is injured the week a major change at the QB position happens? With so much controversy this trade brought all year I find it fascinating that Tebow isnt dressed for the game when they pulled Sanchez. More and more it seems that all were not on board with this trade as claimed.

- At 35-3 against the Patriots, Sanchez was still "Rex guy" but in a 3-0 game he wasnt? I dont get Rex line of thinking on this

- McElroy doesnt dress the entire year, only dresses because of an injured Tebow, and goes into a 3-0 game with still the slimmest of chances to get to the playoffs?

Discuss

I find it super ironic that McElroy was subbed in for the game when Tebow was inactive...this is NOT A COINCIDENCE FOLKS. Feels almost planned out.