As a starter G-Mac has only lost three games since he was in 8th grade.

[fidelioion]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Is a 15 yard out an "intermediate throw"? If so, I don't know yet whether he can throw it effectively. He might, but we haven't really seen it yet. In order to be a viable NFL starting QB, you need to be able to drive the ball outside the numbers. If he shows us he can do that, then I would happily put him in the competition for starter. Its hardly a foregone conclusion though. Sanchez has trouble driving the ball downfield - especially when the pocket is collapsing.

Being a game manager doesn't mean you throw solely slants and flares. You still need to be able to make every throw on the route tree. Remains to be seen whether Mcelroy can do that. I'm perfectly willing to find out though.

The coaching staff knows if he can or can't already.

Arm strength isn't something that being in a game experience will change.

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

With a 5-7 step drop from the middle of the field, that throw will need to travel 25 yards in the air on a rope.

Tough throw.

Right. And, he needs to be able to make all these throws with his pocket collapsing. Penny was able to put mustard on the ball when he had a clean pocket and the ability to step up, take two steps (almost a running start) and get his full body into it.

Unfortunately, you don't always have the chance to do that. Honestly, Sanchez is the same way. He does not have a true gun. When he has the chance to step up, he can fire it in. When he can't, he throws a duck like his first INT yesterday.

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by fidelioion

The coaching staff knows if he can or can't already.

Arm strength isn't something that being in a game experience will change.

Not so sure I agree. As I just put in the post above, throwing the ball to a WR in practice, without someone really in your face is one thing. Game conditions are another. There are a lot of things going on during a game that may affect your mechanics and, to follow, your velocity.

And the CS/FO went out and got Drew Stanton to be the backup and then grabbed Tebow. So, as of March, they didn't have much faith in him. Not sure what changed between then and now as I doubt he's received the bulk of any snaps in OTAs, TC, practice, etc.

[southside]

Let me help you guys out.

Ever seen those signs that say, "Must be this tall to ride"? That's Greg McElroy when it comes to his arm strength. If the guy is just barely squeaking it out I'd be surprised. He doesn't have an NFL arm. Watch what happens when the defense starts playing inside the box and forcing him to beat them over the top or outside the numbers.

Remember Chad Pennington's 3 yard out route INT for TDs? If you don't you'll remember the feeling here shortly. That kid is gonna have DBs sitting and jumping routes all day. They're gonna bait him and he's gonna take the bait because that's the kind of guy he is. He's cocky, he thinks he can make that throw. It's gonna get ugly.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by southside

Let me help you guys out.

Ever seen those signs that say, "Must be this tall to ride"? That's Greg McElroy when it comes to his arm strength. If the guy is just barely squeaking it out I'd be surprised. He doesn't have an NFL arm. Watch what happens when the defense starts playing inside the box and forcing him to beat them over the top or outside the numbers.

Remember Chad Pennington's 3 yard out route INT for TDs? If you don't you'll remember the feeling here shortly. That kid is gonna have DBs sitting and jumping routes all day. They're gonna bait him and he's gonna take the bait because that's the kind of guy he is. He's cocky, he thinks he can make that throw. It's gonna get ugly.

So Arizona didn't know that he wouldn't go deep yesterday and crowded the LOS?! Yeah right... he basically lead two TD drives in 1 1/2 quarters, the last one wasnt run in because of time. And he had to make throws to keep the drives alive.

[southside]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

So Arizona didn't know that he wouldn't go deep yesterday and crowded the LOS?! Yeah right... he basically lead two TD drives in 1 1/2 quarters, the last one wasnt run in because of time. And he had to make throws to keep the drives alive.

Haha. Sure. But from vantage point that would have been the run game making those plays. 29 yards isn't leading sh!t. Lets get real here folks. And absolutely they were sitting on his throws. The heave-ho pass to Hill that he had picked off is an excellent example of that. Squeeze Hill tight and force McElroy to think he has him over the top. He sure thought he had it though....

LMAO at anyone thinking McElroy lead the Jets to victory. The run game picked it up and Shonn Greene and Powell were rushing all over there asses because they had to. 5 completions, 1 of which was a 1 yard TD throw to a wide open receiver and you're saying this kid lead the offense down the field at will? LMAO.

[fidelioion]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Not so sure I agree. As I just put in the post above, throwing the ball to a WR in practice, without someone really in your face is one thing. Game conditions are another. There are a lot of things going on during a game that may affect your mechanics and, to follow, your velocity.

And the CS/FO went out and got Drew Stanton to be the backup and then grabbed Tebow. So, as of March, they didn't have much faith in him. Not sure what changed between then and now as I doubt he's received the bulk of any snaps in OTAs, TC, practice, etc.

I completely agree, I don't think the CS has much faith in him at all. Sanchez was SO bad yesterday Rex really didn't have a choice.

after the 3int's, two more were dropped. Sanchez is just a mess right now.

All I'm saying is I think they know that already. Not a good sign for GM.

[southside]

Originally Posted by southside

Haha. Sure. But from vantage point that would have been the run game making those plays. 29 yards isn't leading sh!t. Lets get real here folks. And absolutely they were sitting on his throws. The heave-ho pass to Hill that he had picked off is an excellent example of that. Squeeze Hill tight and force McElroy to think he has him over the top. He sure thought he had it though....

LMAO at anyone thinking McElroy lead the Jets to victory. The run game picked it up and Shonn Greene and Powell were rushing all over there asses because they had to. 5 completions, 1 of which was a 1 yard TD throw to a wide open receiver and you're saying this kid lead the offense down the field at will? LMAO.

I'm not trying to be a d!ck. I can see how that it looks like that.

I'm saying what in the world are you guys thinking having all this confidence in McElroy like he's going to do anything? He might be the best QB on the Jets, I will agree to that. But he is going to fair the same way that all weak armed QBs do. His routes are going to be sat on, jumped, and returned for TDs. I'll root for the kid for the rest of the season if he actually starts. No question. However, there's no way we're beating the better teams with that type of QB and we all know it and saw it 10 years ago with Pennington. He had every intangible known for the QB position, guts, moxie, whatever... except arm strength. You know how that story ended.

[SMC]

A starting caliber NFL QB needs BOTH a good arm and good decision making. It should never be an either or situation or chosing between the two.

An NFL QB needs to make every throw, even in this offense because plays breakdown, WRs change routes because of coverage and a QB needs to be able to complete the throw to the open reciever regardless of distance and difficulty of throw or defenses will be able to limit the passing game. Along with that, the QB needs to make the right decision when and where to throw.

Sanchez can make every throw, but he makes too many dumb decisions to take advantage of that ability.

Right now, we don't know if Mac can make every throw. If he can, he'll have a chance at success. If he can't, then he better improve his arm strength if his goal is to be a starting QB.

Think of it as a job listing for "must" attributes and "preferred" attributes.

Must:
Strong arm
Good decision making

Preferred:
Rocket arm
Mobility
Height

[SMC]

Originally Posted by southside

Let me help you guys out.

Ever seen those signs that say, "Must be this tall to ride"? That's Greg McElroy when it comes to his arm strength. If the guy is just barely squeaking it out I'd be surprised. He doesn't have an NFL arm. Watch what happens when the defense starts playing inside the box and forcing him to beat them over the top or outside the numbers.

Remember Chad Pennington's 3 yard out route INT for TDs? If you don't you'll remember the feeling here shortly. That kid is gonna have DBs sitting and jumping routes all day. They're gonna bait him and he's gonna take the bait because that's the kind of guy he is. He's cocky, he thinks he can make that throw. It's gonna get ugly.

You maybe 100% right, South. But let's see it on the field first.

As the NBA saying goes and works for NFL QBs: "The ball don't lie."

[NYJ37/12]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

As a big Sanchez supporter, I can see why you would say that.

I like mark but root for the jets.

I don't care who plays, just win, that's what I support.

Separate emotion from reality.

[southside]

Originally Posted by SMC

You maybe 100% right, South. But let's see it on the field first.

As the NBA saying goes and works for NFL QBs: "The ball don't lie."

Yeah, you have a good point.

That's kind of how I feel about Tebow too.

In all honesty, the Jets are screwed at the QB position for the next 3 years. That's if they actually draft one high in 2013. They won't. I hate to say it.... but the best case scenario might be to watch McElroy play for the next 3 years while the Jets groom a QB of the future. This makes me sad.

[Vinny Testaverde's Niece]

Originally Posted by southside

Remember Chad Pennington's 3 yard out route INT for TDs? If you don't you'll remember the feeling here shortly. That kid is gonna have DBs sitting and jumping routes all day. They're gonna bait him and he's gonna take the bait because that's the kind of guy he is. He's cocky, he thinks he can make that throw. It's gonna get ugly.

This seems so obvious that there must be something missing? At any rate he may be able to get by the next four defenses 3 of whom are ranked 26, 28 and 29 or something in that range. I don't think we will really find out much of value with these opponents.

[southside]

Originally Posted by Vinny Testaverde's Niece

This seems so obvious that there must be something missing? At any rate he may be able to get by the next four defenses 3 of whom are ranked 26, 28 and 29 or something in that range. I don't think we will really find out much of value with these opponents.

+1

Which is why I am residing myself to being a middle of the pack team at best for the next 5 years. In my younger days this would really depress me. Now, it is what it is.

[Sanchez 3:16]

Originally Posted by southside

Let me help you guys out.

Ever seen those signs that say, "Must be this tall to ride"? That's Greg McElroy when it comes to his arm strength. If the guy is just barely squeaking it out I'd be surprised. He doesn't have an NFL arm. Watch what happens when the defense starts playing inside the box and forcing him to beat them over the top or outside the numbers.

Remember Chad Pennington's 3 yard out route INT for TDs? If you don't you'll remember the feeling here shortly. That kid is gonna have DBs sitting and jumping routes all day. They're gonna bait him and he's gonna take the bait because that's the kind of guy he is. He's cocky, he thinks he can make that throw. It's gonna get ugly.

He should probably ask Tim Tebow for advice on how to throw a ball so badly that DB's can never jump on the routes.

I hear that's a good skill to have from some posters.

[southside]

Originally Posted by Sanchez 3:16

He should probably ask Tim Tebow for advice on how to throw a ball so badly that DB's can never jump on the routes.

I hear that's a good skill to have from some posters.

Nap time. Back in your jammies! Quick, before mommy comes in and gives you a spanking.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by southside

I'm not trying to be a d!ck. I can see how that it looks like that.

I'm saying what in the world are you guys thinking having all this confidence in McElroy like he's going to do anything? He might be the best QB on the Jets, I will agree to that. But he is going to fair the same way that all weak armed QBs do. His routes are going to be sat on, jumped, and returned for TDs. I'll root for the kid for the rest of the season if he actually starts. No question. However, there's no way we're beating the better teams with that type of QB and we all know it and saw it 10 years ago with Pennington. He had every intangible known for the QB position, guts, moxie, whatever... except arm strength. You know how that story ended.

I agree that is it unlikely we will have any ongoing success with McElroy but he atleast needs a chance. Andy Dalton isn't a very strong or big QB himself and is having success. I think a lot of the problem is that we have a horrible offensive system where not only our receivers dont go vertical, we also never get the defense to really make decisions in coverage.

[southside]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

I agree that is it unlikely we will have any ongoing success with McElroy but he atleast needs a chance. Andy Dalton isn't a very strong or big QB himself and is having success. I think a lot of the problem is that we have a horrible offensive system where not only our receivers dont go vertical, we also never get the defense to really make decisions in coverage.

Well WR quality certainly has hamstrung the QBs, I have no doubts about that. I'd fire the OC and WR coach the Monday after Week 17. The injuries due to the boot camp mentality that was brought here ruined the season early on. It's a sad day when your best WR is a 6th round pick slot receiver. I really don't like Holmes, he's a jerk. But I'm gonna give him a chance to make things right next year with a new QB. I really think this team had enough of Mark. It was obvious.

On terms of Andy Dalton, I don't think that he's good enough to do much in the playoffs against the good teams. He's smart, he keeps the Bungles competitive and I think McElroy can keep the Jets competitive as well. But I doubt either has the ability to win a Super Bowl. We'll see. I'm residing myself to the fact that McElroy is probably going to be the Jets starter over the next few years keeping us around 9-7 and completely hamstringing our ability to pick the highest prospective QB available. The Jets always do this. They miss the boat on getting a QB every single time. They always need one when there's not a good one available.

[jetsfan1983]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Not so sure I agree. As I just put in the post above, throwing the ball to a WR in practice, without someone really in your face is one thing. Game conditions are another. There are a lot of things going on during a game that may affect your mechanics and, to follow, your velocity.

And the CS/FO went out and got Drew Stanton to be the backup and then grabbed Tebow. So, as of March, they didn't have much faith in him. Not sure what changed between then and now as I doubt he's received the bulk of any snaps in OTAs, TC, practice, etc.

Huh?

The coaching staff absolutely knows if he can make that throw. Velocity is not something that moves up or down significantly. A guy is capable of X when it comes to throwing the ball.

The other aspects of being a QB very much has to do with the game situation but not velocity.

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by SMC

A starting caliber NFL QB needs BOTH a good arm and good decision making. It should never be an either or situation or chosing between the two.

An NFL QB needs to make every throw, even in this offense because plays breakdown, WRs change routes because of coverage and a QB needs to be able to complete the throw to the open reciever regardless of distance and difficulty of throw or defenses will be able to limit the passing game. Along with that, the QB needs to make the right decision when and where to throw.

Sanchez can make every throw, but he makes too many dumb decisions to take advantage of that ability.

Right now, we don't know if Mac can make every throw. If he can, he'll have a chance at success. If he can't, then he better improve his arm strength if his goal is to be a starting QB.

Think of it as a job listing for "must" attributes and "preferred" attributes.

Must:
Strong arm
Good decision making

Preferred:
Rocket arm
Mobility
Height

And the thing with Sanchez is that he barely qualifies on the strong arm front. His arm is OK, but he'll never be considered even close to being in the Rocket Arm category. Certainly not fatal in the NFL, but you then need to excel in the Decesion Making category. And, thus far, the game simply hasn't slowed down for him like we all hoped it would. He is step behind in his decision making and its too often readily apparent.

I don't think that makes him dumb - I think he understands the game pretty well. I think he works very hard. But, at the end of the day, playing QB is really hard. There are a lot of things that are going on at the same time and decisions have to be made in a split second, and Sanchez hasn't really been able to improve in that area.

And, as a note on McElroy, we don't know if the game will slow down for him either. Being a Rhodes Scholar finalist doesn't mean that he can read a defense any better than someone who bombed the Wonderlic. He played nicely in his one appearance so far, but Mcelroy hasn't faced many full speed defenses yet. He needs to show that he truly belongs and can compete amongst the big boys. Yesterday was a nice start, but that's all it was....a start.