Sanchez: Where did the train jump off the tracks?

[w0mbat]

Originally Posted by rbstern

I keep thinking about how badly Sanchez regressed in years 3 and 4 and have been pondering the reasons why.

- The detoriation of the Jets o-line and the increasing amount of hits he took.
- The regression of the running game.
- The departure of high quality, veteran skill players on offense.
- Defenses adjusting to him, exploting his weaknesses.
- Being on a defensively oriented team that might not be able to properly mold a young QB.
- Changing to a new offensive system under Sparano.
- The Teebow deal.
- Other, high-profile distractions the Jets managed to create.
- Self-inflicted distractions (serial dating trophy women).
- The intensity of being a pro QB in NYC (all of the above stuffed into a pressure cooker, set on "high").

Please feel free to add to the above list, if I've missed anything.

When taken in sum, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Mark Sanchez regressed.

Most of the above isn't within his control. It's about the environment he's in.

Sanchez didn't regress. He's the same QB he has always been. His first two years here he was a turnover machine and was highly inaccurate just as he is now.

Sanchez was horrible in 09 and was merely below average in 2010.

The 2009 and 2010 teams were very good and with just average QB'ing the Jets would have had 12 wins both seasons.

The difference isn't Sanchez, its that the team around him isn't as good to disguise his numerous flaws.

Sanchez sucks because he's inaccurate, can't read a defense, and of course is a turnover machine.

Why didn't Kyle Boller work out? or JaMarcus Russell or Joey Harrington? Bad coaching? Not enough help on offense?

Some players just suck in the pros including QB's. It happens and there's nothing that could have been done to avert it.

[JetsFanatic]

Originally Posted by njherdfan;4710981[B

[/B]Look at Sanchez's stats. It's scary EXACTLY how similar they are each year.[/B] He's never been good, and now he has worse skill position players, so he looks even worse. I think you'd be hard pressed to identify one area where he has clearly improved since his rookie year.

Great point! He never really was good, but the better talent around him carried him to a certain extent.

[sameoldjets]

eva longoria. he started going downhill this season right after she dumped him. sanchez just thinks too much. he has never been able to just react. that's why his throws are always late. very tough to coach that out of him.

[Matt39]

He was never that good but the Jets handled him terribly. He should have never seen the field in 2009.

Woody was obsessed with having a face for the organization and saw dollar signs with a young handsome latino QB.

He probably could have been a decent game manager if they went about it correctly, but looking back spending a top 5 pick on a guy who has average at best measurables was absurd. 16 starts in college to top 5 pick. Just insanity. He's built like a kicker for christs sakes.

Woody is a doofus and we'll never win anything with him unless he changes his ways or sells the team.

[jrochwa]

Originally Posted by SAR I

The price the Jets paid for beefing up the #1 Defense and #1 Rushing Attack in the NFL was that they ignored the passing game.

This isn't rocket science. It's high finances. Where will you invest your money. All teams operate within the same financial constraints. The Giants have a great front seven and a powerful passing game, no money left to shore up a terrible secondary. Same for the Patriots. Go team by team, you'll see the glaring weaknesses where money was simply not spent.

Our team is imbalanced. The investment on defense is over-the-top, the investment on offense paltry. Joe Montana couldn't succeed in this offense.

SAR I

Sure, we have spent too much on defense and not enough on offense, but another skill player or two would never make Sanchez a good quarterback. You put any of the top 12-15 QBs on this team and we are well on our way to the playoffs.

Who are the great players on the Packers offense? The Saints? The Colts? The Redskins? The Steelers? Was Wes Welker that good on Miami? Do you think Gronkowski puts up huge numbers with Sanchez?

At some point you need to recognize that some players aren't good enough. Mark Sanchez never had what it took to succeed. No more excuses for this fraud. He has no accuracy, is soft and isn't smart enough on the field.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by w0mbat

Sanchez didn't regress. He's the same QB he has always been. His first two years here he was a turnover machine and was highly inaccurate just as he is now.

Sanchez was horrible in 09 and was merely below average in 2010.

The 2009 and 2010 teams were very good and with just average QB'ing the Jets would have had 12 wins both seasons.

The difference isn't Sanchez, its that the team around him isn't as good to disguise his numerous flaws.

Sanchez sucks because he's inaccurate, can't read a defense, and of course is a turnover machine.

Why didn't Kyle Boller work out? or JaMarcus Russell or Joey Harrington? Bad coaching? Not enough help on offense?

Some players just suck in the pros including QB's. It happens and there's nothing that could have been done to avert it.

The 2009 Jets would have finished 7-9 if the Colts didn't lay down.

The 2010 Jets would have finished 7-9 if Mark Sanchez didn't lead 4 miracle comebacks after the defense blew leads late.

In one calendar year, from Week 12 2009 to Week 12 2010, the Jets went 16-4, Mark Sanchez started every game, he won 16 of 20 games and complimented Rex Ryan's master plan to win on defense and ground & pound.

Where things went south for Mark was where things went south for the Jets as a team. There's a defining moment in time that ended the Rex Ryan Jets, it occurred in Week 10 last year at home against the Patriots.

Going into that game, the Jets were 5-3 and Ryan had boasted about how this was the time we were finally going to pass the Patriots and take control of the division. We'd smoked them in the playoffs, we could take first place, how it was "our time" and the team was going to "step up", all that crap. And, as usual, we got blown out.

Going into that game, we were on a 25-11 streak, including the span where we went 16-4.

Since that game, the Jets are 7-12.

SAR I

[Buzzsaw]

Originally Posted by SAR I

The first point is the most damning, to me. How Tannenbaum could go into this season with such poor skill players and such a questionable OL and not give his QB at least someone out of the backfield as a consistent dump-off threat is astounding.

SAR I

It's bull****. There's not another team in the entire league that does not have at least one elite or very good receiver, runningback or tight end.

[rbstern]

Originally Posted by w0mbat

Sanchez didn't regress. He's the same QB he has always been. His first two years here he was a turnover machine and was highly inaccurate just as he is now.

Sanchez was horrible in 09 and was merely below average in 2010.

The 2009 and 2010 teams were very good and with just average QB'ing the Jets would have had 12 wins both seasons.

I can't buy that, and here's why:

In 2009 and 2010, there were a lot of games where Sanchez stepped up and won games. Late game drives where he'd make five or six good to great throws. Heady pocket play, scrambling for more time, or getting out of the pocket and running for a critical first down. Manufacturing comeback wins.

That's why Jets fans thought we'd see a guy who, in year 3, 4, 5 and beyond go on to be a franchise quarterback.

Yes, his stats were "rookie QB bad" in 2009. But he showed flashes of elite, game-winning talent, and that's what got many of us on board. That guy is nowhere to be found.

And, yes, the team got much worse in 2011 and 2012. Maybe he's a bubble player; good on a great team, lousy on a bad team.

[Matt39]

Originally Posted by rbstern

But he showed flashes of elite, game-winning talent, and that's what got many of us on board. That guy is nowhere to be found.

When?

2009 they ran the ball every play and all Sanchez was asked to do was play action one read passes and roll outs. The Jets were running a HS offense in 2009, with a traffic light on the sideline. And he still almost managed to mess it up.

He played well at Pittsburgh and Chicago in 2010, I thought he was finally starting to get it a bit. But overall those first 2 years he was covered up by a great defense. He's been bad his entire career as a passer.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by jrochwa

Who are the great players on the Packers offense? The Saints? The Colts? The Redskins? The Steelers? Was Wes Welker that good on Miami? Do you think Gronkowski puts up huge numbers with Sanchez?

At some point you need to recognize that some players aren't good enough. Mark Sanchez never had what it took to succeed. No more excuses for this fraud. He has no accuracy, is soft and isn't smart enough on the field.

First off, comparing Mark Sanchez to some of the all time great NFL quarterbacks of this generation like Rodgers, Brees, Manning, and Roethlisberger is ridiculous. Sanchez was not a prospect like those guys coming out of college, nor RGIII nor Luck. He was drafted because we had no other option in free agency or with an incumbent.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw

It's bull****. There's not another team in the entire league that does not have at least one elite or very good receiver, runningback or tight end.

Correct.

Nor is there another team in the entire league that pretends to be 'elite' that loses by surrendering an average of 31 points a game and has a lead rusher averaging a paltry 50 yards a game.

Reminder: We're built to win on a stout defense and a punishing running game. We got neither. Our quarterback is not very good, but he's not the reason we suck.

SAR I

[Matt39]

Originally Posted by SAR I

He was drafted because we had no other option in free agency or with an incumbent.

SAR I

We also traded up for the guy. He was drafted for reasons other than football. I think thats become abundantly clear over the past 5 years and how this organization makes decisions.

There was no reason to move up when a guy with better measurables would have been on the board in our initial draft slot.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Matt39

We also traded up for the guy. He was drafted for reasons other than football. I think thats become abundantly clear over the past 5 years and how this organization makes decisions.

There was no reason to move up when a guy with better measurables would have been on the board in our initial draft slot.

That guy would have been Josh Freeman.

As you state, we traded up for Sanchez. Had to. There were no good prospects in free agency, Favre wasn't returning, Pennington had left.

It sounded good on paper- rookie HC and rookie QB growing up together. Problem is, Tannenbaum indulged Rex's defense with all the support in the world and he ignored Sanchez.

SAR I

[Matt39]

Originally Posted by SAR I

That guy would have been Josh Freeman.

As you state, we traded up for Sanchez. Had to. There were no good prospects in free agency, Favre wasn't returning, Pennington had left.

It sounded good on paper- rookie HC and rookie QB growing up together. Problem is, Tannenbaum indulged Rex's defense with all the support in the world and he ignored Sanchez.

SAR I

Not that Freeman is Dan Marino, but the guy had a better pedigree/tools than Sanchez. Looking back, we all bought into the Sanchez thing...but ****, there were a lot of factors outside of football than came into play there.

[rbstern]

Originally Posted by Matt39

When?

2009 they ran the ball every play and all Sanchez was asked to do was play action one read passes and roll outs. The Jets were running a HS offense in 2009, with a traffic light on the sideline. And he still almost managed to mess it up.

He played well at Pittsburgh and Chicago in 2010, I thought he was finally starting to get it a bit. But overall those first 2 years he was covered up by a great defense. He's been bad his entire career as a passer.

Exhibit A:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...layer=SancMa00

Look at the number of game winning/4th qtr comeback drives in 2010. That's elite territory.

Look up the same stats for Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Of those three, only Manning ever put up more in a single season.

And it wasn't the Jets just running it. Sanchez was hitting big throws in many of those games. It wasn't an accident that many Jets fans got on the bandwagon. And we weren't alone. A lot of NFL commentators saw the same thing.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by njherdfan

Look at Sanchez's stats. It's scary EXACTLY how similar they are each year. He's never been good, and now he has worse skill position players, so he looks even worse. I think you'd be hard pressed to identify one area where he has clearly improved since his rookie year.

I agree with this. he has shown bright flashes and as a fan base we think here it is.

Reality???? He is a pick machine. Other posters recall a pocket presence. I don't remember that. he seems to always not sense what's behind him.

sad but he will be a solid backup somewhere. David Carr like.

[MDL_JET]

Originally Posted by Matt39

Not that Freeman is Dan Marino, but the guy had a better pedigree/tools than Sanchez. Looking back, we all bought into the Sanchez thing...but ****, there were a lot of factors outside of football than came into play there.

And look at the talent Tampa Bay has done to help Freeman. They had a nice young WR in Williams but that didn't stop them from picking up Vincent Jackson.

All the Jets did for Sanchez was continue to take away talent around him.

[Matt39]

Originally Posted by rbstern

Exhibit A:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...layer=SancMa00

Look at the number of game winning/4th qtr comeback drives in 2010. That's elite territory.

Look up the same stats for Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Of those three, only Manning ever put more in a single season.

And it wasn't the Jets just running it. Sanchez was hitting big throws in many of those games. It wasn't an accident that many Jets fans got on the bandwagon. And we weren't alone. A lot of NFL commentators saw the same thing.

There was never anything Sanchez was doing there that was elite, Im sorry. The Houston secondary was historically bad in 2010. The Lions pass defense is always awful. Holmes made the play against the Browns.

The made for TV moments always get overrated in the scheme of things. Sanchez still sucked back then too...a few things broke his way in dramatic fashion which skewed peoples views of him.

The kid could never play. He's another Joey Harrington.

[JumbalayaJet]

I'm in the neveranygood camp. The D used to be good enough to bail him out. We'd have lost sunday if the Cards QB wasn't even worse.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[sdJETSetter]

Couldnt read whole thread, but definitely the end of last season. When the top 5 defense and run game went away, so did Mark Sanchez's chances.

To be honest, Santonio Holmes could be the biggest hand in sabotaging Marks career.....

Signed as a #1WR : No Way
Not a good guy in the locker room : Affirmative

What a waste. Mark is not very good, but the management "scheme" is by far and away the worst assailant in all of this.

Sad for us fans. Go Jets.