Sanchez: Where did the train jump off the tracks?

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by JetBidi

Not gonna happen. Weak-minded & doesn't have the heart of a champion. His mental state is... Fra-gee-lee.

Done as a starter ANYWHERE. Career backup the rest of the way (except he starts for the Jets next year because of the ridiculous contract).

At this point, I'd be all for the red, yellow, green system if the Jets put that moron back in. Only thing that idiot seems to understand.

He's the toughest quarterback the Jets have ever had. Impervious to injury. Solid as a rock. Brave, considering how lousy the OL has played for half his career.

"Weak minded"? "Heart of a champion"? Why? Because you don't like his postgame press conferences where he's told to say nothing just like his head coach and GM?

Mark Sanchez' turnovers happen for a simple reason that everyone likes to overlook- he's trying to make a play while running for his life. And when you don't have playmaking receivers and you instead have a porous offensive line, it's all over anyway.

Mark Sanchez is a symptom, not the problem.

SAR I

[Traitor Jay & the Woodies]

Originally Posted by SAR I

First off, comparing Mark Sanchez to some of the all time great NFL quarterbacks of this generation like Rodgers, Brees, Manning, and Roethlisberger is ridiculous. Sanchez was not a prospect like those guys coming out of college, nor RGIII nor Luck. He was drafted because we had no other option in free agency or with an incumbent.

SAR I

This is categorically untrue. No matter how many times you say it, it still won't make it true.

He was drafted to be a franchise QB. Period.

[fusion]

many of this so called comebacks had to be combeacks because Sanchez turnovers and bad play put the team in a hole in the first place

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies

This is it. You are absolutely right. And the stats back it up.

The week before he almost won a game in Oakland (the D fell apart). Imagine that... Sanchez was an asset, not the problem.

Then came the Ravens. He was never the same again. Great observation.

When Mike Tannenbaum went to war in 2011 and invested in a turnstile (Hunter) and an aging WR (Plax) and an aging RB (LT), that was the turning point for Mark Sanchez.

He no longer was getting good protection. He no longer had reliable receivers. He no longer had a running game. Didn't see it back when Tannenbaum made the decisions, but there was no gas in the tank for the two older guys and Hunter fell to pieces.

That Ravens game looks like something significant, but the Jets went 6-3 thereafter and were sitting at 8-5 with 3 to play. It wasn't a single event but rather the slow erosion of the WR's and RB's at the end of last season combined with the brutal miscalculation of offensive talent at the start of this season that ruined Mark Sanchez.

That is why, again, I am in the court of letting Mark get another season with a proper offensive coordinator and proper weapons. Mark's undoing coincided precisely when all his skill players aged and/or were cut. That's not coincidence in my book. Not like he failed with the same set of guys he succeeded with. The need to stack this defense cost us all the money/picks/focus needed to stack the offense. Mark is a symptom of a bigger problem.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies

This is categorically untrue. No matter how many times you say it, it still won't make it true.

He was drafted to be a franchise QB. Period.

He was not a 'sure thing' that people trade up to the #1 spot to grab like the others on that list.

He was drafted to be a franchise QB in a system that doesn't depend on the vertical game. If Ryan needed the second-coming of Dan Marino, he never would have been drafted. Period.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by SAR I

If you drew up a strategy to deliberately f-ck up your first round franchise quarterback after watching him go 4-2 in the playoffs, you couldn't have executed it any better if you tried.

SAR I

Originally Posted by ASG0531

Right there you just used a term ["deliberately"] to promote your point... it's obviously not true but it certainly sounds good when you throw it into a sentence to make a point, hoping no one will really pay attention because it sounds persuasive.

Do you know how to read? Re-read what I wrote. Perhaps you'll get it this time.

Originally Posted by ASG0531

You have a pro-Sanchez and anti-Rex Agenda and yesterday it just blew up in your face.

LOL. Seriously? Let me get this straight- Rex Ryan is a genius for benching a guy he should have benched a month ago? And Rex Ryan is the second-coming of Bill Walsh because he 'won' a 7-6 game against the worst the NFL has to offer?

Rex Ryan waited too long to pull the plug. Rex Ryan can't coach his way out of a paper bag. Rex Ryan is coaching to save his job, you'll see him do a lot of desperate and silly things this month, the McElroy move being the first of many.

If Rex Ryan were such a great head coach, he wouldn't need to "light a spark" in the 3rd quarter of a game at home against a lousy western team 10 days after being humiliated on a national holiday. Rex Ryan can't motivate his players. That's the Jets problem stretching back to late 2009 to this very day.

SAR I

[HitSomeone41]

Originally Posted by tfine350z

I really hope Sanchez goes to a team that helps him out...the guy definitely needs a change of scenery.....he had alot of things working against him the past 2 years....lack of support......lack of coaching......ridicule from the media and fans...Tebow...he never had a chance. Like I said in previous threads the New York Jets will never ever have a homegrown franchise QB...the organization has no clue how to develop one...combined that with the rabid media and a fan base that cannot go through a developmental growth period and you have a organization that operates like shampoo..wash, rinse and repeat.....It wont be long until we are as bad as the Cleveland Browns. Oh by the way, they are the only team that has more head coaches changes then the Jets...only by one.

I just puked, vomit and threw up. We are the cleveland browns ! Earnest Byner? Keith Byers? Anyone?

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by fusion

many of this so called comebacks had to be combeacks because Sanchez turnovers and bad play put the team in a hole in the first place

No.

More often than not, the defense blew leads late and Mark needed to rescue us from their failure.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by HitSomeone41

I just puked, vomit and threw up. We are the cleveland browns ! Earnest Byner? Keith Byers? Anyone?

No, we're worse than the Cleveland Browns.

See, after they lost back to back AFCCG's they made the playoffs two more times before fading to losing records and oblivion. For us, the fade was more like a cliff.

It also bears stating that we weren't some strong dynasty of any sort. Lucky to get to 9-7 the first time, very fortunate to get to 11-5 the next. What we were was a great playoff team. We've always been a lousy regular season team.

You get a narrow window to do something in the NFL, ours closed. Many reasons why, but it did. Everything we do now has to be geared towards 2015 when Brady and Belichick are gone and maybe, just maybe, our new head coach will be worth a damn.

SAR I

[w0mbat]

Originally Posted by rbstern

Exhibit A:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...layer=SancMa00

Look at the number of game winning/4th qtr comeback drives in 2010. That's elite territory.

Look up the same stats for Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Of those three, only Manning ever put up more in a single season.

And it wasn't the Jets just running it. Sanchez was hitting big throws in many of those games. It wasn't an accident that many Jets fans got on the bandwagon. And we weren't alone. A lot of NFL commentators saw the same thing.

Lets look at some other QB numbers from the 2010 season and how Sanchez ranked among his peers.

29th in completion percentage 54.8%

23 Jason Campbell
24 Kyle Orton
25 Donovan McNabb
26 Matt Cassel
27 Ryan Fitzpatrick
28 Kerry Collins
29 Mark Sanchez
30 Jimmy Clausen
31 Derek Anderson

26th in yards per attempt 6.49 yards

23 Matt Hasselbeck
24 Chad Henne
25 Kerry Collins
26 Mark Sanchez
27 Matt Ryan
28 Shaun Hill
29 Derek Anderson

27th ranked QB rating with 75.3

24 Donovan McNabb
25 Sam Bradford
26 Chad Henne
27 Mark Sanchez
28 Matt Hasselbeck
29 Brett Favre
30 Derek Anderson

Football outsiders stats placed him 22nd http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2010

Besides the 4th quarter comeback statistic, by any other metric Sanchez wasn't even an average staring QB in 2010 despite the talent surrounding him.

[JetBidi]

Originally Posted by SAR I

No.

More often than not, the defense blew leads late and Mark needed to rescue us from their failure.

SAR I

WTF?? What games were you watching (from home). Maybe your TV broadcasts come in differently from the rest of the world.

[rbstern]

Originally Posted by w0mbat

Lets look at some other QB numbers from the 2010 season and how Sanchez ranked among his peers.

29th in completion percentage 54.8%

23 Jason Campbell
24 Kyle Orton
25 Donovan McNabb
26 Matt Cassel
27 Ryan Fitzpatrick
28 Kerry Collins
29 Mark Sanchez
30 Jimmy Clausen
31 Derek Anderson

26th in yards per attempt 6.49 yards

23 Matt Hasselbeck
24 Chad Henne
25 Kerry Collins
26 Mark Sanchez
27 Matt Ryan
28 Shaun Hill
29 Derek Anderson

27th ranked QB rating with 75.3

24 Donovan McNabb
25 Sam Bradford
26 Chad Henne
27 Mark Sanchez
28 Matt Hasselbeck
29 Brett Favre
30 Derek Anderson

Football outsiders stats placed him 22nd http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2010

Besides the 4th quarter comeback statistic, by any other metric Sanchez wasn't even an average staring QB in 2010 despite the talent surrounding him.

His passer rating in his 2nd year was better than Brett Favre's 2nd year as a full time starter. Favre threw 24 picks in his 2nd full year as a starter. In fact, Favre is a good comparison, because his trademark was famously doing bone-headed things with turnovers, but also having a remarkable ability to rally his team and produce game winning drives.

That's what we saw out of Sanchez in 2010; he flashed that same style. It was reasonable to expect growth. But something went wrong. The team got worse. We know that. He got worse. Chicken? Egg?

We'll never know.

[rbstern]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Mark Sanchez' turnovers happen for a simple reason that everyone likes to overlook- he's trying to make a play while running for his life. And when you don't have playmaking receivers and you instead have a porous offensive line, it's all over anyway.

Not so sure about this.

I felt that way last year, but this year, it looks more careless. The fumbles, in particular. He's in his 4th year as a pro QB, and he's absolutely lousy at securing the football when he's being hit. That's bad coaching and/or poor personal discipline.

Also, some of the interceptions have been unforced, and his pocket awareness has declined precipitously. He looks scared back there, seems to have lost his ability to step away from pressure.

Perhaps the Jets molded him into these traits, but they are still his traits.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by rbstern

Not so sure about this.

I felt that way last year, but this year, it looks more careless. The fumbles, in particular. He's in his 4th year as a pro QB, and he's absolutely lousy at securing the football when he's being hit. That's bad coaching and/or poor personal discipline.

Also, some of the interceptions have been unforced, and his pocket awareness has declined precipitously. He looks scared back there, seems to have lost his ability to step away from pressure.

Perhaps the Jets molded him into these traits, but they are still his traits.

I judge Mark Sanchez 90% on his first 3 seasons, 10% on this season.

We didn't score a TD in the entire preseason. We knew we had significant problems at WR, RB, and OL to go along with a banged-up TE and no depth at any offensive position way back in July.

Not sure why the current state of the Jets offense is a shock to anyone.

The real shock is that the supposed "best defense ever....best group of players I've been around including the 2000 Ravens" is WORSE than last year.

The real shock is that our "best special teams coach who ever lived" is WORSE than ever in his history.

The real shock is that Tim Tebow is a bust and did nothing but hurt our quarterback and slow down our offense.

The real shock is how bad Tony Sparano is at offensive coordination.

The real shock is that our "best mind in the game, seeing a sleep specialist, having leadership conferences, I've changed" head coach is coaching WORSE than he has since he's been here.

But no, everyone wants to talk about Mark Sanchez, Mark Sanchez, Mark Sanchez, Mark Sanchez, Mark Sanchez, Mark Sanchez, Mark Sanchez, Mark Sanchez, Mark Sanchez, Mark Sanchez.

Enough. Our QB is a lousy head case. Check. Got it. Let's talk about the real problems now. Being in denial and thinking the only issue is the quarterback gets us nowhere.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by JetBidi

WTF?? What games were you watching (from home). Maybe your TV broadcasts come in differently from the rest of the world.

@ Detroit: Jets up 10-7 at halftime, wind up down 20-10 after defense gives up back-to back TD's. Sanchez gets us a TD and a FG in 2:46 to go to OT, we win in OT.

@ Denver: Jets tied at 10-10 in second half as defense allows a long drive for a TD to make it 17-10 Broncos. Jets tie it again at 17-17 and defense again allows long drive for a FG to fall behind 20-17 with 3:55 to go. Mark Sanchez comes down the field, LT scores with a minute left, Jets win 24-17.

Houston: Jets up 23-7 in the 4th quarter, defense gives up 2 TD's and 2 FG's in under 12 minutes wind up down 27-23 with under a minute to go. Sanchez leads a :45 second drive and hits the game winning TD with :10 seconds left.

@ Cleveland: Jets up 20-13 with 2:42 left, the defense lets Colt McCoy go 90 yards to tie it. Sanchez wins it in OT to Holmes.

I don't know, you tell me. What world are YOU watching the games in? Maybe your broadcasts come in from the rest of the world, eh?

SAR I

[ASG0531]

Sar, please explain to me how you used to term "deliberately" in the correct sense:

If you drew up a strategy to deliberately f-ck up your first round franchise quarterback after watching him go 4-2 in the playoffs, you couldn't have executed it any better if you tried.

Your back is to the wall. I will retract my use of the word "agenda" if you just admit you are playing verbal bullying games, and have lost wrt to Sanchez.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

Sar, please explain to me how you used to term "deliberately" in the correct sense:

Your back is to the wall. I will retract my use of the word "agenda" if you just admit you are playing verbal bullying games, and have lost wrt to Sanchez.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Here's a re-write of the sentence:

"Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum couldn't have screwed up Mark Sanchez any worse than they already have if they drew up a roadmap and went out of their way to do so."

Savvy?

SAR I

[jets80]

Originally Posted by MDL_JET

-Got rid of Cotchery and didn't re-sign Braylon.
-Tried to replace with aging Mason and Plax.
Fail.

Winner...

[Nick Blitz]

How about we just stop making excuses for him, the number one reason Mark Sanchez is screwed up is.....Mark Sanchez.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Nick Blitz

How about we just stop making excuses for him, the number one reason Mark Sanchez is screwed up is.....Mark Sanchez.

You may be right about that.

The Jets FO and Coaching Staff did him no favors, though.