ARTICLE: History Suggests Sanchez May Be Better Off Elsewhere - Jets Insider.com Forums

NagleBagel · 12-08-2012, 02:48 PM

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...off-elsewhere/

Fourteen years before the Jets selected Sanchez out of Southern Cal, the Carolina Panthers selected Kerry Collins with the fifth overall pick. Like Sanchez, Collins struggled in key areas. With the Panthers, Collins’s highest completion percentage was a meager 56, while Sanchez’s best with the Jets was 56.7 percent. In 1997 Collins led the league with 21 interceptions, whereas Sanchez was second in the league in 2009 with 20 and fifth in 2011 with 18. Both players were frequent fumblers, often among the worst offenders in the league.

In Collins’s fourth season, the team placed him on waivers. He finished the year in New Orleans. After the season the Giants acquired him. A year later Collins had repaired his career to the point that he aided the Giants to a 12-4 record and a Super Bowl berth. In that championship game, Collins faced off against the Baltimore Ravens and their quarterback Trent Dilfer.

Like Collins and Sanchez, Dilfer was a top pick (sixth over all in 1994) who struggled with his original team. Dilfer spent six seasons with Tampa Bay, and although he made the Pro Bowl in his fourth year, he was a below average quarterback for the other five seasons. The Ravens acquired him in his seventh season, and he became their starter for that championship season.

BrickHouse · 12-08-2012, 03:29 PM

Sometimes players need fresh starts. I just don't think he will do well here next year no matter who we acquire on offense because of two reasons. CBS Sports had an article about two weeks ago that recorded each completion he had added with ALL of the WR/TE/RB drops with the assumption that 80% of those catches are made, with that his completion percentage was a paltry 54%. Over a 4 year period that % should not be that low. After 4 years no matter who you have at the offensive positions you should be able to show improvement YOY, and he hasn't. He just isn't an accurate passer.

The second reason is while he has played well in the playoffs he hasn't in the regular season games. Why is that? There are no reasonable explanations over a 4 year period why a QB played well in 4 games, but as a whole sucked in the other 60+.

The fan base wants a change and after 4 years of mediocre play at best we deserve it. You can blame the GM for the lack of talent and the coach for not grooming and improving Sanchez his first pick. Ryan gets a pass because of the 2 back to back AFC championships and his mouth. Yup, his mouth. He talked ##$@# during those 2 seasons when he won those 4 playoff game, the press wanted to roast him for it but could't because he won on the road for back to back AFC championship appearances. The GM needs a change because his mistakes cover 2 coaches and the lack of talent is alarming. Gholston, Wilson, Ducasse & Sanchez those are all pretty much busts made in the 1st two rounds. That has to change and improve.

Cleansweep2013 · 12-08-2012, 03:57 PM

must point Jets traded pretty far up to get Sanchez.. Jets were not a bad team like those teams who earned the early pick.. Jets finished 8-8 in 08, I believe were 8-2 before Farve self destructed (ok torn his forearm). This was a team not asking for a qb to do much.. They really didnt ask him to do anything but hand off 1st two years.. Defenses were so kean on the Jets running it wasnt hard to make a throw once in a while... Year 3 Rex took the training wheels off Mark, and hes been falling (failing) and the only thing he has proven is he cant play qb in the NFL with only 2 wheels..

BrickHouse · 12-08-2012, 06:11 PM

I disagree. His first two years he had a ridiculous amount of turnovers. In those two years he had a running game which he should have produced a decent amount of yardage and TD even with the TO's, he didn't. If you look at a guy like Stafford who I compare him to in terms of tool set, he when healthy he completes at a 60%+ rate. Sanchez hasn't sniffed that rate in 4 years. Are you saying that in year 5 with another group of offensive players he will get it and produce? What will change between year 4 and year 5? In those first two years he had a top 5 OL even if his targets weren't phenomenal he had ample players to get close to that and once again he didn't.

Vin · 12-08-2012, 06:54 PM

Reality suggests Mark should've found another line of work.

JetsNeedNewton · 12-08-2012, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Reality suggests Mark should've found another line of work.

He doesn't have to, he's a millionaire at 25 many times over. Wish I sucked that much.

McGinley · 12-08-2012, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetsNeedNewton

He doesn't have to, he's a millionaire at 25 many times over. Wish I sucked that much.

Seriously. I'd be willing to go out there and turn the ball over as quick as I can for less money than he's making.

Sanchez 3:16 · 12-08-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Reality suggests Mark should've found another line of work.

yeah, he should probably just post on a message board.

Bhoys in Green · 12-08-2012, 11:20 PM

Whatever one's views on him, are we not all in agreement that our luck dictates that as soon as we get rid of him he will defeat us in the Super Bowl?

McGinley · 12-08-2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanchez 3:16

yeah, he should probably just post on a message board.

> takes a shot at user posting on a message board
> posts on a message board himself

JetsNeedNewton · 12-09-2012, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGinley

> takes a shot at user posting on a message board
> posts on a message board himself

You have an average of 10.7 posts a day, everyday without fail, for 1 straight year. Just sayin'

McGinley · 12-09-2012, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetsNeedNewton

You have an average of 10.7 posts a day, everyday without fail, for 1 straight year. Just sayin'

Your point, exactly? In case you didn't notice, I was pointing out his hypocrisy.

NY's stepchild · 12-09-2012, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrickHouse

I disagree. His first two years he had a ridiculous amount of turnovers. In those two years he had a running game which he should have produced a decent amount of yardage and TD even with the TO's, he didn't. If you look at a guy like Stafford who I compare him to in terms of tool set, he when healthy he completes at a 60%+ rate. Sanchez hasn't sniffed that rate in 4 years. Are you saying that in year 5 with another group of offensive players he will get it and produce? What will change between year 4 and year 5? In those first two years he had a top 5 OL even if his targets weren't phenomenal he had ample players to get close to that and once again he didn't.

For what it's worth, history has shown that every QB would be better off anywhere but the Jets.

If you actually watched game film of Sanchez, and figured out what went wrong in each particular situation you would see a marked change in Sanchez over the years. Early on he made rookie mistakes, and was careless and reckless, but aggressive. By the end of year two, and into the playoffs, he was progressing pretty well, and coming up big in the biggest spots. He lost his confidence along the way, and had his aggression coached out of him. He is not the type of QB that could ever be a game manager. Think Brett Farve afraid to make a mistake. Now he's making mostly the right decisions, but he is consistently late letting go of the ball, and he never had great accuracy. It's not bad decisions that cause the turnovers. It's holding on to the ball too long. Most of his interceptions are actually on check downs, which is why they're so often returned. He needed to be a high risk/reward type, and they've ruined him. He has no idea what to do out there at this point and it's doubtful he'll ever recover.

JaxSuzy · 12-09-2012, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrickHouse

CBS Sports had an article about two weeks ago that recorded each completion he had added with ALL of the WR/TE/RB drops with the assumption that 80% of those catches are made, with that his completion percentage was a paltry 54%. Over a 4 year period that % should not be that low. After 4 years no matter who you have at the offensive positions you should be able to show improvement YOY, and he hasn't. He just isn't an accurate passer.

Whoa, that's pretty bad. Interesting stat to look at. So even if potential passes had been caught, he would be only 54%. That sucks bad.

Vin · 12-09-2012, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanchez 3:16

yeah, he should probably just post on a message board.

Like you and me, right?

OH WAIT! You forgot.....that you just insulted YOURSELF! Oh no!

You should really think before you post next time, smart-mouth.

TheSage · 12-09-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

For what it's worth, history has shown that every QB would be better off anywhere but the Jets.

If you actually watched game film of Sanchez, and figured out what went wrong in each particular situation you would see a marked change in Sanchez over the years. Early on he made rookie mistakes, and was careless and reckless, but aggressive. By the end of year two, and into the playoffs, he was progressing pretty well, and coming up big in the biggest spots. He lost his confidence along the way, and had his aggression coached out of him. He is not the type of QB that could ever be a game manager. Think Brett Farve afraid to make a mistake. Now he's making mostly the right decisions, but he is consistently late letting go of the ball, and he never had great accuracy. It's not bad decisions that cause the turnovers. It's holding on to the ball too long. Most of his interceptions are actually on check downs, which is why they're so often returned. He needed to be a high risk/reward type, and they've ruined him. He has no idea what to do out there at this point and it's doubtful he'll ever recover.

Nice post and probably valid. I believe there may also be a correlation with his low wonderlic score

JetsFanatic · 12-09-2012, 08:20 AM

The Sanchize ain't going anywhere!!

DDNYjets · 12-09-2012, 08:31 AM

I don't care where he goes. As long as he doesn't play for us.

Kid got paid $50MM to tag along for 2 years and then suck for 2 years. Not to mention all the fine pieces of a$$ he snagged during his tenure.

Phuck him.

dogg · 12-09-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

I don't care where he goes. As long as he doesn't play for us.

Kid got paid $50MM to tag along for 2 years and then suck for 2 years. Not to mention all the fine pieces of a$$ he snagged during his tenure.

Phuck him.

what self-respecting piece of ass would give it to him for free the way he's playing now?

12-08-2012, 02:48 PM	#1
NagleBagel Waterboy Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1	ARTICLE: History Suggests Sanchez May Be Better Off Elsewhere http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...off-elsewhere/ Fourteen years before the Jets selected Sanchez out of Southern Cal, the Carolina Panthers selected Kerry Collins with the fifth overall pick. Like Sanchez, Collins struggled in key areas. With the Panthers, Collins’s highest completion percentage was a meager 56, while Sanchez’s best with the Jets was 56.7 percent. In 1997 Collins led the league with 21 interceptions, whereas Sanchez was second in the league in 2009 with 20 and fifth in 2011 with 18. Both players were frequent fumblers, often among the worst offenders in the league. In Collins’s fourth season, the team placed him on waivers. He finished the year in New Orleans. After the season the Giants acquired him. A year later Collins had repaired his career to the point that he aided the Giants to a 12-4 record and a Super Bowl berth. In that championship game, Collins faced off against the Baltimore Ravens and their quarterback Trent Dilfer. Like Collins and Sanchez, Dilfer was a top pick (sixth over all in 1994) who struggled with his original team. Dilfer spent six seasons with Tampa Bay, and although he made the Pro Bowl in his fourth year, he was a below average quarterback for the other five seasons. The Ravens acquired him in his seventh season, and he became their starter for that championship season.

12-09-2012, 08:20 AM	#17
JetsFanatic When you listen to the fans, you sit with the fans! Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,979	The Sanchize ain't going anywhere!! Last edited by JetsFanatic; 12-09-2012 at 08:28 AM.

12-08-2012, 03:29 PM	#2
BrickHouse 3 Home teams and the F@ Jets Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 1,957	Sometimes players need fresh starts. I just don't think he will do well here next year no matter who we acquire on offense because of two reasons. CBS Sports had an article about two weeks ago that recorded each completion he had added with ALL of the WR/TE/RB drops with the assumption that 80% of those catches are made, with that his completion percentage was a paltry 54%. Over a 4 year period that % should not be that low. After 4 years no matter who you have at the offensive positions you should be able to show improvement YOY, and he hasn't. He just isn't an accurate passer. The second reason is while he has played well in the playoffs he hasn't in the regular season games. Why is that? There are no reasonable explanations over a 4 year period why a QB played well in 4 games, but as a whole sucked in the other 60+. The fan base wants a change and after 4 years of mediocre play at best we deserve it. You can blame the GM for the lack of talent and the coach for not grooming and improving Sanchez his first pick. Ryan gets a pass because of the 2 back to back AFC championships and his mouth. Yup, his mouth. He talked ##$@# during those 2 seasons when he won those 4 playoff game, the press wanted to roast him for it but could't because he won on the road for back to back AFC championship appearances. The GM needs a change because his mistakes cover 2 coaches and the lack of talent is alarming. Gholston, Wilson, Ducasse & Sanchez those are all pretty much busts made in the 1st two rounds. That has to change and improve.

12-08-2012, 03:57 PM	#3
Cleansweep2013 1 more year until Sanchez is delievering piazzas onsundays.. Rookie Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 696	must point Jets traded pretty far up to get Sanchez.. Jets were not a bad team like those teams who earned the early pick.. Jets finished 8-8 in 08, I believe were 8-2 before Farve self destructed (ok torn his forearm). This was a team not asking for a qb to do much.. They really didnt ask him to do anything but hand off 1st two years.. Defenses were so kean on the Jets running it wasnt hard to make a throw once in a while... Year 3 Rex took the training wheels off Mark, and hes been falling (failing) and the only thing he has proven is he cant play qb in the NFL with only 2 wheels..

12-08-2012, 06:11 PM	#4
BrickHouse 3 Home teams and the F@ Jets Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 1,957	I disagree. His first two years he had a ridiculous amount of turnovers. In those two years he had a running game which he should have produced a decent amount of yardage and TD even with the TO's, he didn't. If you look at a guy like Stafford who I compare him to in terms of tool set, he when healthy he completes at a 60%+ rate. Sanchez hasn't sniffed that rate in 4 years. Are you saying that in year 5 with another group of offensive players he will get it and produce? What will change between year 4 and year 5? In those first two years he had a top 5 OL even if his targets weren't phenomenal he had ample players to get close to that and once again he didn't.

12-08-2012, 06:54 PM	#5
Vin RE-SIGN ME, DAMMIT!!! All Pro Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,171	Reality suggests Mark should've found another line of work.

12-08-2012, 11:20 PM	#9
Bhoys in Green Practice Squad Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 286	Whatever one's views on him, are we not all in agreement that our luck dictates that as soon as we get rid of him he will defeat us in the Super Bowl?

12-09-2012, 08:31 AM	#18
DDNYjets Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: New York Posts: 12,559	I don't care where he goes. As long as he doesn't play for us. Kid got paid $50MM to tag along for 2 years and then suck for 2 years. Not to mention all the fine pieces of a$$ he snagged during his tenure. Phuck him.