Quinton Coples

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

My question on coples is where do you think he fits best long term? I know whether rex is here or not he will line up in multiple spots, but is he best suited for DT in a 4-3 front? Im not sure he is most valuable if he is lined up as an "edge rusher" as he isnt very fast, and it de-leverages his strength and quickness off the ball?

Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by jetsfan1983

Position doesn't matter with Coples. The only part that matters with Coples is having him rushing the passer from the interior of the line. He has special abilities with that. Even better abilities than Mo except Mo can also be a beast against the run.

Basically what he said. He's going to line up in a bunch of places, especially if Rex sticks around.


And definitely not what this guy said:

Originally Posted by patman

I think he screams RDE in a 4-3. A speed rusher over the LT, Wilk and Ellis in the middle and Coples over the RT.

Quinton Coples is not a speed rusher.

I've been watching Coples since college as we are alums of the same school. He has never been a speed rusher. He doesn't explode off the ball and he cannot bend the edge very well in that department. Coples doesn't suck necessarily in this spot, but you're not putting him in the best position to succeed. In his senior season, he was criticized for his effort and lower production. What is neglected in all of this was that he played primarily DE his senior season, unlike junior year when he played DT and racked up all those sacks.

In pass rushing situations, Coples is at his best when he's matched up head on with a guard or shaded on a center or guard. He has great quickness and strength when operating inside and when he can extend those hands on you, it's all over.

In fairness to patman, Coples's last pressure that forced the INT came out of the RDE spot. That being said, he used an inside move on Monroe and basically juked him out of his shoes. If he were to play the end spot, I think his better fit is at LDE.

He should be pass rushing from the inside about 80% of the time. As doggin94it pointed out, there is an element of Justin Tuck to his game. That has always been my comparison for Coples, dating back to his junior season.

[southside]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

Basically what he said.


And definitely not what this guy said:



Quinton Coples is not a speed rusher.

I've been watching Coples since college as we are alums of the same school. He has never been a speed rusher. He doesn't explode off the ball and he cannot bend the edge very well in that department. Coples doesn't suck necessarily in this spot, but you're not putting him in the best position to succeed. In his senior season, he was criticized for his effort and lower production. What is neglected in all of this was that he played primarily DE his senior season, unlike junior year when he played DT and racked up all those sacks.

In pass rushing situations, Coples is at his best when he's matched up head on with a guard or shaded on a center or guard. He has great quickness and strength when operating inside and when he can extend those hands on you, it's all over.

In fairness to patman, Coples's last pressure that forced the INT came out of the RDE spot. That being said, he used an inside move on Monroe and basically juked him out of his shoes. If he were to play the end spot, I think his better fit is at LDE.

He should be pass rushing from the inside about 80% of the time. As doggin94it pointed out, there is an element of Justin Tuck to his game. That has always been my comparison for Coples, dating back to his junior season.

You've watched a lot of UNC games. I feel sorry for you.

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by southside

You've watched a lot of UNC games. I feel sorry for you.

Yeah, I have. Seeing my university win two national basketball titles and having another Final Four team was such a pity

[chirorob]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

Basically what he said. He's going to line up in a bunch of places, especially if Rex sticks around.


And definitely not what this guy said:



Quinton Coples is not a speed rusher.

I've been watching Coples since college as we are alums of the same school. He has never been a speed rusher. He doesn't explode off the ball and he cannot bend the edge very well in that department. Coples doesn't suck necessarily in this spot, but you're not putting him in the best position to succeed. In his senior season, he was criticized for his effort and lower production. What is neglected in all of this was that he played primarily DE his senior season, unlike junior year when he played DT and racked up all those sacks.

In pass rushing situations, Coples is at his best when he's matched up head on with a guard or shaded on a center or guard. He has great quickness and strength when operating inside and when he can extend those hands on you, it's all over.

In fairness to patman, Coples's last pressure that forced the INT came out of the RDE spot. That being said, he used an inside move on Monroe and basically juked him out of his shoes. If he were to play the end spot, I think his better fit is at LDE.

He should be pass rushing from the inside about 80% of the time. As doggin94it pointed out, there is an element of Justin Tuck to his game. That has always been my comparison for Coples, dating back to his junior season.

Is there anything more valuable than that pass rush up the middle? The one where the QB can't step up into his throw? No QB likes people in his face. I'd love to see Coples in the middle, rushing the passer like John Randle used to do.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by chirorob

Is there anything more valuable than that pass rush up the middle? The one where the QB can't step up into his throw? No QB likes people in his face. I'd love to see Coples in the middle, rushing the passer like John Randle used to do.

Especially against a pocket passer like Tom Brady...

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

Especially against a pocket passer like Tom Brady...

Edge rushers like JPP and Osi are the guys who beat Brady in the Super Bowl twice. Don't understand Jets fans saying the only way Coples can ever be succesful is rushing up the middle.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

Edge rushers like JPP and Osi are the guys who beat Brady in the Super Bowl twice. Don't understand Jets fans saying the only way Coples can ever be succesful is rushing up the middle.

I dont think anyone said thats the only way he can EVER be successful, but from what we have seen from him so far, and what apparently was the case in college, was that he is very quickoff the ball when shooting a gap, but not as fast around the edge which makes sense since he is close to 300 lbs.

JPP is a FREAK, no other way to describe an athlete his size that can get around the edge so quickly.

Coples simply isnt as fast, but is quick off the ball and very strong, ie more suited to play inside then out

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

Edge rushers like JPP and Osi are the guys who beat Brady in the Super Bowl twice. Don't understand Jets fans saying the only way Coples can ever be succesful is rushing up the middle.

It was a combination of outside rush from these guys and inside pressure by Justin Tuck (who dominated in that role during their first SB win against the Pats). If you only have edge rushers Brady will just step up in the pocket.

Anyways, while Coples should primarily be used at 3-4 end where he could be special because of his pass rush ability (like Wilkerson this year) he has the versatility to also line up outside from time to time or against certain teams. Rex loves versatility and will put that to use going forward.

[southside]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

Yeah, I have. Seeing my university win two national basketball titles and having another Final Four team was such a pity

I was talking about your football team, goober.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

Yeah, I have. Seeing my university win two national basketball titles and having another Final Four team was such a pity

What years did you attend?

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by chirorob

Is there anything more valuable than that pass rush up the middle? The one where the QB can't step up into his throw? No QB likes people in his face. I'd love to see Coples in the middle, rushing the passer like John Randle used to do.

I think it's a very underrated quality. On Coples's sack yesterday, I did a quick stopwatch and he made contact with Henne about 1.8-1.9 seconds after the snap. A win at the LOS means you're taking a beeline to the QB, disrupting his vision and throwing windows before ultimately crushing him.

If you could go tit for tat, outside vs. inside rush, I'll take a guy who can provide an inside rush for the reasons mentioned. A QB who isn't a freak athlete has nowhere to go if the middle of the pocket is blown up. Even the unathletic QBs with top notch pocket presence (Brady/Manning) have a tough time. With an edge rusher, you can always step up.

That being said, the supply of inside pass rushers is miniscule compared to the outside rushers...and even the top notch inside rushers can barely keep up with the outside rushers. Of the top 20 sack leaders in the league, only two of them are interior lineman (Watt, Atkins -- both in top 10). Those guys are extremely rare and as good as Wilkerson/Coples can be, I cannot see either one of them putting up more than one double digit sack year (if at all). That doesn't mean they're great pass rushers at their spots -- just the nature of the position they play.

We just need one edge rusher who is capable of a double digit sack season. We haven't had a double digit sack guy since Abraham. This guy doesn't have to be Ware, Wake, or Aldon Smith. A risky one-on-one matchup on the edge + Wilkerson/Coples rushing inside + Rex's blitz and coverage schemes = top 5 defense. It already tells you a lot that Wilkerson, an inside guy, is getting chipped by RBs on pass rush opportunities...I noticed it yesterday on at least two occasions, and Rex even mentioned it today.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

I think it's a very underrated quality. On Coples's sack yesterday, I did a quick stopwatch and he made contact with Henne about 1.8-1.9 seconds after the snap. A win at the LOS means you're taking a beeline to the QB, disrupting his vision and throwing windows before ultimately crushing him.

If you could go tit for tat, outside vs. inside rush, I'll take a guy who can provide an inside rush for the reasons mentioned. A QB who isn't a freak athlete has nowhere to go if the middle of the pocket is blown up. Even the unathletic QBs with top notch pocket presence (Brady/Manning) have a tough time. With an edge rusher, you can always step up.

That being said, the supply of inside pass rushers is miniscule compared to the outside rushers...and even the top notch inside rushers can barely keep up with the outside rushers. Of the top 20 sack leaders in the league, only two of them are interior lineman (Watt, Atkins -- both in top 10). Those guys are extremely rare and as good as Wilkerson/Coples can be, I cannot see either one of them putting up more than one double digit sack year (if at all). That doesn't mean they're great pass rushers at their spots -- just the nature of the position they play.

We just need one edge rusher who is capable of a double digit sack season. We haven't had a double digit sack guy since Abraham. This guy doesn't have to be Ware, Wake, or Aldon Smith. A risky one-on-one matchup on the edge + Wilkerson/Coples rushing inside + Rex's blitz and coverage schemes = top 5 defense. It already tells you a lot that Wilkerson, an inside guy, is getting chipped by RBs on pass rush opportunities...I noticed it yesterday on at least two occasions, and Rex even mentioned it today.

My daughter is an alum of UNC and I promised her a Coples jersey on his first sack. I will not buy it until I see more. NO ONE wants Coples to be a player more than me but he appears a bit slow. He may be a good player but I am still hoping for a bit more.

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

What years did you attend?

Started August '04. Graduated May '08. So I was a little misleading about the two titles part, but I hung around Chapel Hill for a few years after graduation and still saw or went to all the games from '08-'09. The 2005 championship was more fun for me than '09 because I was a freshman and had no idea what the feeling would be like if we won. One of my best college memories.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

Started August '04. Graduated May '08. So I was a little misleading about the two titles part, but I hung around Chapel Hill for a few years after graduation and still saw or went to all the games from '08-'09. The 2005 championship was more fun for me than '09 because I was a freshman and had no idea what the feeling would be like if we won. One of my best college memories.

My daughter graduated in 2010.

Everything in her life is powder blue. She got a GREAT job after college and in the city she moved to attends Tar Heel club events etc. Great school to go to.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

My daughter graduated in 2010.

Everything in her life is powder blue. She got a GREAT job after college and in the city she moved to attends Tar Heel club events etc. Great school to go to.

Still had to be tough writing those checks to UNC though.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

Still had to be tough writing those checks to UNC though.

Best investment I ever made............

I think you alluding to my NC State ties. Thats my other daughter.

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

My daughter is an alum of UNC and I promised her a Coples jersey on his first sack. I will not buy it until I see more. NO ONE wants Coples to be a player more than me but he appears a bit slow. He may be a good player but I am still hoping for a bit more.

I don't disagree with you on the "slow" part.

He has some great athleticism in terms of lateral quickness and sheer size/strength, but it goes back to what I said before: Quinton Coples is not an edge rusher. He doesn't have the "beat the tackle to the corner" kind of speed, plus he cannot contort his body well enough to dip around the tackle.

Quinton Coples is going to beat you with strength, leverage, arm length, and better quickness than interior linemen. That's why I have been adamant he is a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT than can play 4-3 DE only in a pinch. As I mentioned in another post, it's actually more complicated than that...depending on down and distance this year, I have seen Coples line up on the nose and shaded off the center (his pressure that led to the Harris sack came here), on the guard and shaded off the guard in 3 technique (his sack came here), matched up against a tackle (his final pressure that led to the TD), and lined up only to back off in zone coverage (unfortunately his face mask penalty).

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

Best investment I ever made............

I think you alluding to my NC State ties. Thats my other daughter.

Agreed. Would be tough if my son or daughter decided to go to USC though. I would hate writing tuition checks to that institution.

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

My daughter graduated in 2010.

Everything in her life is powder blue. She got a GREAT job after college and in the city she moved to attends Tar Heel club events etc. Great school to go to.

Oh, cool. Good for her. It's a semi big school, but I'm sure her path had crossed mine at some point.

I still stay connected with so many people in my UNC network even though I live in NYC. You'll be surprised how many alums live here. My post-college "career" has been abysmal though. I've been treading water for 4.5 years and while I have been employed for the large majority of it, I have very little to show. I'm still trying to "start" my career. So frustrating.