Revisiting Gun Laws in the U.S.

[Borgoguy]

Originally Posted by Jetworks

I'd like to add that all the 2nd Amendment ninnies need to step back and take a hard look at just what the intent of that law really means. As a retired LEO I had to jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops and red tape (months long) to RE-OBTAIN my firearms that I carried for 22 years. Think about that for a moment before crying that you can't get a Bushmaster at a gun show or a DE before a short waiting period.

Seriously, the inability to find common sense compromise on major issues is sending this country down the toilet. That applies to both sides of this issue, too.

Exactly how I feel. These days, all arguments on serious issues seem to take an "all or nothing tack".

I do not possess the skills necessary to even begin to formulate an answer on gun control or the right to bear arms. This is why we send our representatives to Washington or our state capitals.

IMO, we need to demand that these individuals begin crafting legislation which makes sense for American society in 2013, free of influence and intervention from lobbyists on both sides of the issue. (Pie in the sky; I know.) They are, supposedly, qualified to enact workable policy and legislation. Just as with the budget stalemate, we need to start holding their feet to the fire until they get something accomplished.

[freestater]

Originally Posted by BushyTheBeaver

Adam Lanza's mother didn't, as you say, "outsource her security." She was armed to the teeth.

Where is she now?

Nice 'logic'.

Her situation =/= All situations

So what are you saying? If she couldn't stop her kid that we should all be disarmed? Kiss my ass. Don't like the fact that I have guns and will continue to own and carry them? Tough titties. You'll never do a damn thing to stop it. Let me know how you dumbasses take care of un-inventing nuclear weapons. After you handle that mote of a task, we'll talk about you un-inventing all the guns in la la land, or where ever the hell you think you live. Good luck with that.

Get's my ire up when *******s I don't even know speak so glibly about taking away my freedoms.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by Jetworks

I'd like to add that all the 2nd Amendment ninnies need to step back and take a hard look at just what the intent of that law really means. As a retired LEO I had to jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops and red tape (months long) to RE-OBTAIN my firearms that I carried for 22 years. Think about that for a moment before crying that you can't get a Bushmaster at a gun show or a DE before a short waiting period.

Seriously, the inability to find common sense compromise on major issues is sending this country down the toilet. That applies to both sides of this issue, too.

Not sure what you mean???? When I took my conceal classes, we had a few retired cops in the class as they had to take the same class as I did. I think we all saw how silly that was. I , having no experience and say..YOU needing the same class? You should simply be able to apply and perhaps test out out once every 5 years or so.


I am missing the BUSHMASTER point. Can you clarify for us 1/2 Italian 1/2 polacks?

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by C Mart

I think as a society the U.S. population has demonstrated over the past 50 yrs it no longer can manage their "rights" to bear arms.

and so Barney Frank and John McCain should intervene? Really?

I imagine drunk Driving, texting and driving will kill 10X the people guns will this year.

[Borgoguy]

Medical examiner just said most of the shootings happened with the "long weapon". So, now we know why so many were shot so rapidly: The Bushmaster. F**k that POS murderer. Rot in hell.

[Apache 51]

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

Medical examiner just said most of the shootings happened with the "long weapon". So, now we know why so many were shot so rapidly: The Bushmaster. F**k that POS murderer. Rot in hell.

Sidearms are always secondary.

[Borgoguy]

Originally Posted by Apache 51

Sidearms are always secondary.

Think about that meat grinder and what it was doing to all those little kids. I'm ready to punch a wall.

You see that teacher who tried to protect her class? Beautiful, 27 year-old woman who was beloved by her students and had her whole life in front of her. What a world.

[Apache 51]

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

Think about that meat grinder and what it was doing to all those little kids. I'm ready to punch a wall.

You see that teacher who tried to protect her class? Beautiful, 27 year-old woman who was beloved by her students and had her whole life in front of her. What a world.

This 20 year old had to have something snap in his unhealthy brain. Who kills lil kids, almost babies?

[gunnails]

Originally Posted by Jetworks

Strawman arguments, each and every one of them.

=================================================

Other then the point about getting serious about mental health care, I agree.

Accidents Vs murder, although drunk driving deaths for the most part are now consider homicides.

Still my points are not completely with out merit, just pointing out that guns do not kill people on there own.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by freestater

Really? Because a fraction of a fraction of a single percent of the population isn't capable of it? In case you're unaware, millions and millions of responsible gun-owning citizens didn't shoot anybody yesterday or the day before that or the day before that....

And millions of responsible people don't hijack airplanes either but we all have to pass thru metal dectors, take off our shoes and can't even bring a bottle of water on a plane.

[Axil]

Originally Posted by C Mart

And millions of responsible people don't hijack airplanes either but we all have to pass thru metal dectors, take off our shoes and can't even bring a bottle of water on a plane.

Right... and most of those precautions are pretty stupid.

[acepepe]

There is a LARGER problem than gun ownership in America!!!!!!! There was ONE instance in my childhood, EVERY rural family and a good portion of city folk owned guns. The incident was Charles Wittman at U of Texas, an autopsy reveled a brain tumor. We live in a country where kids call each other "*****es and Ho's, teenagers spend hours killing on video games and there's nonstop violence(graphic) on TV along with a steady diet of sex, Religion is mocked. We are reaping what was sown.
My heart bleeds and I've cried dozens of times in the lat 36 hours.

[Jetworks]

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

Exactly how I feel. These days, all arguments on serious issues seem to take an "all or nothing tack".

I do not possess the skills necessary to even begin to formulate an answer on gun control or the right to bear arms. This is why we send our representatives to Washington or our state capitals.

IMO, we need to demand that these individuals begin crafting legislation which makes sense for American society in 2013, free of influence and intervention from lobbyists on both sides of the issue. (Pie in the sky; I know.) They are, supposedly, qualified to enact workable policy and legislation. Just as with the budget stalemate, we need to start holding their feet to the fire until they get something accomplished.

Agreed, but it still won't happen unless cooler heads do formulate answers, otherwise the politicians will continue to be swayed by those at the far ends of the spectrum of the argument.

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

Not sure what you mean???? When I took my conceal classes, we had a few retired cops in the class as they had to take the same class as I did. I think we all saw how silly that was. I , having no experience and say..YOU needing the same class? You should simply be able to apply and perhaps test out out once every 5 years or so.


I am missing the BUSHMASTER point. Can you clarify for us 1/2 Italian 1/2 polacks?

What I meant about the Bushmaster is that there are folks in this country that think it should be their right to purchase something like that under the guise of using it for hunting, "home defense" or loonier still, in case we need to get up in arms against the gubbmint. It's preposterous. If you want to hunt, buy a hunting rifle. If you want hone defense, do what most professionals would advise, buy a shotgun. This is about hard-ons, not rights.

I do think it's ridiculous that someone such as myself needs to go through such a process. I feel I have shown the ability and responsibility necessary for over two decades when it comes to firearms. That said, I won't cry too much if I am told to give them back. It's a tool and I can always find another way to accomplish the job at hand without it, even if that means walking away from the job.

[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by Jetworks

Agreed, but it still won't happen unless cooler heads do formulate answers, otherwise the politicians will continue to be swayed by those at the far ends of the spectrum of the argument.



What I meant about the Bushmaster is that there are folks in this country that think it should be their right to purchase something like that under the guise of using it for hunting, "home defense" or loonier still, in case we need to get up in arms against the gubbmint. It's preposterous. If you want to hunt, buy a hunting rifle. If you want hone defense, do what most professionals would advise, buy a shotgun. This is about hard-ons, not rights.

I do think it's ridiculous that someone such as myself needs to go through such a process. I feel I have shown the ability and responsibility necessary for over two decades when it comes to firearms. That said, I won't cry too much if I am told to give them back. It's a tool and I can always find another way to accomplish the job at hand without it, even if that means walking away from the job.

So you're saying you want to regulate hard ons?

When will this insanity end?

[BushyTheBeaver]

Originally Posted by freestater

Nice 'logic'.

Her situation =/= All situations

So what are you saying? If she couldn't stop her kid that we should all be disarmed? Kiss my ass. Don't like the fact that I have guns and will continue to own and carry them? Tough titties. You'll never do a damn thing to stop it. Let me know how you dumbasses take care of un-inventing nuclear weapons. After you handle that mote of a task, we'll talk about you un-inventing all the guns in la la land, or where ever the hell you think you live. Good luck with that.

Get's my ire up when *******s I don't even know speak so glibly about taking away my freedoms.

You have no idea what I'm saying. You don't even know what my position is. But it sure ticked you off how easily I blew a hole in your argument, didn't it. You sound like a really angry guy.

[gunnails]

Originally Posted by BushyTheBeaver

You sound like a really angry guy.

We are all angry, and on the same side.

[Snell41]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

2nd Amendment Right to bears arms. All of the above are arms.
Concealed weapons existed at the time of the Constitution. So did multi shot individual weapons - hand and shoulder fired.

Nuclear weapons have long been referred to as Nuclear Arms. I guess you have no problem with your neighbor having one stashed in the closet for "defense purposes"?

[BushyTheBeaver]

Originally Posted by gunnails

We are all angry, and on the same side.

I'm not sure that's true.

Read FSer's posts over the past two days. I read them all. Not a single mention expressing sadness or regret over the murdered children. But post after post of, "You want my guns? Try and take 'em, ****s." Lots of anger, lots of threats to do violence.

Can't side with sentiments like those. Do you?

[gunnails]

Originally Posted by BushyTheBeaver

I'm not sure that's true.

Read FSer's posts over the past two days. I read them all. Not a single mention expressing sadness or regret over the murdered children. But post after post of, "You want my guns? Try and take 'em, ****s." Lots of anger, lots of threats to do violence.

Can't side with sentiments like those. Do you?

================================================== =

Not fully, but I know of Free enough to know that he is sadden over the children as much as the next guy.

And he, I, and you are angry over this tragedy, our responses and solutions differ. That's America, that's a good thing.

[Winstonbiggs]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Incorrect. Artillery was the biggest killer on the battlefield, for the record.
Based on your premise, arms OF ANY TYPE are ok. So sayeth the Constitition. An arm is an arm. OK by the Founders. All of whom BTW were smarter than any of the bozos currently running our country. On either side of the aisle.
Flamethrowers and RPGs for all.
In candor, none of the weapons used in the school massacre were serious military type weapons. You had a soft target with a madman out to do harm.

Not at all. My point is if the right to bear arms is based on what an infantryman can carry into battle that right over time naturally increases the load of what bearing arms is. The fact that the Constitution doesn't say what arms are implies a right by the state to regulate what those arms are.

Now we can have a spiralling of deadly power that can be carried or we can have something in between. Nowhere in the constitution does anyone have the right to a concealed weapon, automatic or semi-automatic weapons. We have representative government and we can have reasonable legislation. The law even in representative government does restrict us, create tyrany for the individual. Our representative government isn't meant to get rid of that tyrany it's meant to keep it from being enforced by a dictator. If we are going to have a civil society, which is the entire point of government, we have to balance rights against the desires and benifit societal laws give us. The Constitution defines rights that can't be abridged. The right to bear arms can't be abriged but what those arms are can be.