Sanchez: Where It All Went Wrong

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by wepnx

I watched that butt fumble and is it possible Sanchez was down by contact? He fell down with a defender wrapping his arms around Sanchez's legs. He slams down on his back then the ball comes out. If you are on you back and a defender is on your legs isn't that down by contact? The ball is on his chest with his hands around it until his back hits the ground. The defender is clearly grabbing his ankles. Of course the Pats could have only scored 45 without that.

Exactly.

As usual, Rex Ryan's defensive collapse is swept under the rug and the whole world focuses on one football follies play. If that play never happens, the Jets defense still gives up 42 points in a must-win game on Thanksgiving.

Based on the over-support it gets, we expect more from the defense.

Based on the lack of support it gets, we expect very little from the offense.

SAR I

[Dcat]

Originally Posted by PatriotReign

Captain Obvious says that the fact that so much writing material exists about why Sanchez wasn't a very good QB confirms that he isn't a very good QB. The end simply negates all the means in this case.

It's not rocket science for the Jets to determine whether they should be looking for another QB.

I think SAR thinks that Mark can be fixed. I say he's not worth finding out and no he cant be fixed.

[We need Sherman Plunkett]

IMO - the article is blaming the Coaches & personnel dept. of the Jets for Sanchez's demise. Granted, Sanchez has played horribly and he owns it - but the article is pinning it on the Coaching staff

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Dcat

I think SAR thinks that Mark can be fixed. I say he's not worth finding out and no he cant be fixed.

Read my posts back a page. Look at all that he lost. No 24 year old QB could grow under those circumstances.

Quarterbacks can thrive under the right circumstances. Quarterbacks can regress under the wrong circumstances. I think it's common knowledge that our offense is the epitome of "wrong".

SAR I

[Kentucky Jet]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Not at all.

Could the Jets have had a better "tryout" for a QB than they did with Mark Sanchez? Rookie given no time to carry the clipboard still manages to go 4-6 in his first 10 shaky newb games. Then goes on an epic 16-4 run. Then wins 4 of 6 playoff games and is the best Jet on the field in two AFC Championship Games.

Coming out of 2010, boy, you'd say the Jets found a very good kid who is 25 and ready to really learn and grow on the job. Right? You bet. That summer of 2011 no one was talking about Mark Sanchez as a 'problem'. We were flirting with Aso and adding missing pieces like Plaxico, remember? I do.

Well what the hell happened? Did Mark just take stupid pills? Or did the Jets take away every offensive weapon they'd given him and replace them with sh-t? Or did the Jets let the OL fall to pieces and let him get slammed around? Or did the Jets keep an OC who has his head in the sand? Or did the Jets bring in a new OC that had never done that job before? Or did the Jets bring in Tim Tebow to mess with his head? Or did the Jets leave Cortland with the worst offense in the NFL?

I don't have an infatuation with Mark Sanchez. I just know that we had a 23 year old kid that accomplished a hell of a lot by the time he turned 25, still a baby, and was mishandled by a lousy head coach that doesn't give a damn about offense.

Let's find out. Let's see if he sucks outright or just needs a set of offensive playmakers like the other successful NFL quarterbacks have.

SAR I

Lets surround him with all-pros! He will still be inaccurate and a non-leader! He will be imtimidated by the talent surrounding him and crawl into his bunker in a fetal position. Last year he was scorned by Holmes and who knows who else? This year he has the excuse of Tebow and less talented players surrounding him then in prior years!

We keep providing him with excuses but the guy is just not a leader nor is he an accurate passer! With all the talent surrounding him in his first two years, did he ever complete 65 per cent of his passes? Did he win a championship? Case closed!

[Dreamers]

If you ask his mom it was when he started dating a woman old enough to be his mom.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet

Lets surround him with all-pros! He will still be inaccurate and a non-leader! He will be imtimidated by the talent surrounding him and crawl into his bunker in a fetal position. Last year he was scorned by Holmes and who knows who else? This year he has the excuse of Tebow and less talented players surrounding him then in prior years!

We keep providing him with excuses but the guy is just not a leader nor is he an accurate passer! With all the talent surrounding him in his first two years, did he ever complete 65 per cent of his passes? Did he win a championship? Case closed!

How many college juniors come straight out of school, are made the starter immediately with no clipboard time, play in the biggest pressure-cooker market in the NFL, complete 65% of their passes, and win 2 playoff games.

Then, in their second season, get their team from 7-9 to 11-5 with 4 miracle 4th quarter comebacks and again win 2 playoff games.

Please give examples. Let's see the 100's of quarterbacks that did what Mark Sanchez did in his first two years and had a 65% completion percentage atop that.

SAR I

[Jetworks]

Originally Posted by SAR I

In any quarterback's first two seasons with no time to learn from a starter and hold a clipboard, you're going to find those kinds of issues.

The question is: Why didn't he GROW from that point forward in his next two seasons?

The answer is: Rex Ryan only cares about the defense.

We've got to get a new HC in here before we ruin this kid forever.

SAR I

Originally Posted by SAR I

Playmakers Mark had his first two/three seasons:

Edwards,
Holmes,
Cotchery,
Burress,
Keller,
Tomlinson,
Richardson,
Jones,
Greene (young),
Washington.

Replacement players this/last year:

Schillens,
Hill,
Kerley,
McKnight,
Connor,
Gates,
Hilliard,
Reuland,
Gilyard,
Greene (old).

Find me 1 player that's a better one-for-one swap of the guy he replaced. You can't. We have the worst set of receiving targets in the NFL. It's hard to be a good QB when you have nothing to throw to. Note that I did not list the OL fails. Note that I did not list the Coordinator fail. Note that I did not list the Tebow distraction.

Are you being paid for your ignorance?

SAR I

Originally Posted by SAR I

Not at all.

Could the Jets have had a better "tryout" for a QB than they did with Mark Sanchez? Rookie given no time to carry the clipboard still manages to go 4-6 in his first 10 shaky newb games. Then goes on an epic 16-4 run. Then wins 4 of 6 playoff games and is the best Jet on the field in two AFC Championship Games.

Coming out of 2010, boy, you'd say the Jets found a very good kid who is 25 and ready to really learn and grow on the job. Right? You bet. That summer of 2011 no one was talking about Mark Sanchez as a 'problem'. We were flirting with Aso and adding missing pieces like Plaxico, remember? I do.

Well what the hell happened? Did Mark just take stupid pills? Or did the Jets take away every offensive weapon they'd given him and replace them with sh-t? Or did the Jets let the OL fall to pieces and let him get slammed around? Or did the Jets keep an OC who has his head in the sand? Or did the Jets bring in a new OC that had never done that job before? Or did the Jets bring in Tim Tebow to mess with his head? Or did the Jets leave Cortland with the worst offense in the NFL?

I don't have an infatuation with Mark Sanchez. I just know that we had a 23 year old kid that accomplished a hell of a lot by the time he turned 25, still a baby, and was mishandled by a lousy head coach that doesn't give a damn about offense.

Let's find out. Let's see if he sucks outright or just needs a set of offensive playmakers like the other successful NFL quarterbacks have.

SAR I

I know most of you think SAR is running some schtick or is blindly enamored with Sanchez, but he puts forth some compelling arguments for why it isn't ALL Sanchez. Notice that doesn't exclude Sanchez from blame, it just doesn't make him fully culpable like many on this board seem to think. There's some middle ground here. If it's found Sanchez, and the Jets, can once again be successful. Right now, that's the best option out there, because he's coming back, there's no one in FA worthwhile and going the rookie route just isn't smart at this point.

[Rhode Island Green]

Originally Posted by SAR I

How many college juniors come straight out of school, are made the starter immediately with no clipboard time, play in the biggest pressure-cooker market in the NFL, complete 65% of their passes, and win 2 playoff games.

Then, in their second season, get their team from 7-9 to 11-5 with 4 miracle 4th quarter comebacks and again win 2 playoff games.

Please give examples. Let's see the 100's of quarterbacks that did what Mark Sanchez did in his first two years and had a 65% completion percentage atop that.

SAR I

Unfortunately, Mark's several decent performances in Years 1&2 appear to have been his high watermark. Of late, he more often resembles the Sanchez in Year 1 vs. the Saints than the Sanchez in Year 4 vs. the Bills (game 1). He clearly has regressed. Due to contract and Ryan issues, we're probably stuck with him for another year. I hope he gets traction again, but I fear he is too far gone to salvage, at least with the Jets.

[Santonio]

color coded wristbands were a pretty good clue

[Rhode Island Green]

Originally Posted by Santonio

color coded wristbands were a pretty good clue

LOL.

[Conkboy]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Read my posts back a page. Look at all that he lost. No 24 year old QB could grow under those circumstances.

Quarterbacks can thrive under the right circumstances. Quarterbacks can regress under the wrong circumstances. I think it's common knowledge that our offense is the epitome of "wrong".

SAR I

I was not sure the best response of yours to quote but I have a couple of questions I hope you might answer. It is a given that Mark's regular season stats are in the bottom echelon of QBs in each of the 4 years he has played. Whether you look at QBR, QB Rating or even just completion % ,they are all well below average. So I ask you these questions:

1. If we had a coaching staff that could better develop Sanchez, how do you know they would not be even more successful with a guy like Moore, Campbell or Flynn?

2. If we had terrfic offensive talent, how do you know that other QBs wouldn't even get more production out of them?

3. You can't blame the defense for Sanchez's stats... He has much more impact on their stats than they have on him. While the D can share responsibility for the Jets record, don't you agree they have little to no responsibility for his crappy regular season stats?


4. You think Sanchez could be salvaged with playmakers around him? That is a crapshoot or potentially very expensive to guarantee. We would not be better trying to correct one position by say a 25% improvement rather than attempt to correct 5 to 7 players by 25% plus?

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Santonio

color coded wristbands were a pretty good clue

He was a 23 year old college junior who came straight into the pro's with no mentor, no clipboard time. After a not-so-bad 4-6 start, Mark Sanchez went on a 16-4 run and set the record for most road playoff wins by a quarterback.

He might have blossomed into a franchise quarterback in Year 3 and Year 4 if his boneheaded head coach didn't abandon the most important player on the field and leave him with no playmakers, no line, and no coordinator. It's criminal what we did to him.

SAR I

[Conkboy]

Originally Posted by SAR I

How many college juniors come straight out of school, are made the starter immediately with no clipboard time, play in the biggest pressure-cooker market in the NFL, complete 65% of their passes, and win 2 playoff games.

Then, in their second season, get their team from 7-9 to 11-5 with 4 miracle 4th quarter comebacks and again win 2 playoff games.

Please give examples. Let's see the 100's of quarterbacks that did what Mark Sanchez did in his first two years and had a 65% completion percentage atop that.

SAR I

Who is to say that we would not have accomplished the same things in 09 and 10 with any available journeyman QB that was available at the time. The reason you can't compare is because typically teams with playoff caliber teams are not in position to draft a franchise QB, and when they do, they have a serviceable QB to hold down the fort until the rookie is ready. The 2009 Jets had no other QB options....

[rmeyer52]

The truth is that Sanchez does not have the skills to be in the same class as a Brady, Manning or even a Flaco. He needs a strong supporting cast and cannot carry a team or win big games when it's all on him

[Conkboy]

Originally Posted by SAR I

He was a 23 year old college junior who came straight into the pro's with no mentor, no clipboard time. After a not-so-bad 4-6 start, Mark Sanchez went on a 16-4 run and set the record for most road playoff wins by a quarterback.

He might have blossomed into a franchise quarterback in Year 3 and Year 4 if his boneheaded head coach didn't abandon the most important player on the field and leave him with no playmakers, no line, and no coordinator. It's criminal what we did to him.

SAR I

I agree he was terribly mishandled but a QB is not like Legos, you can't just put the broken pieces back together and everything is alright... It is possible you will set your franchise back even further if you just try to keep fixing the holes in the barrell as opposed to just going out and getting another one.

[Santonio]

Originally Posted by SAR I

He was a 23 year old college junior who came straight into the pro's with no mentor, no clipboard time. After a not-so-bad 4-6 start, Mark Sanchez went on a 16-4 run and set the record for most road playoff wins by a quarterback.

He might have blossomed into a franchise quarterback in Year 3 and Year 4 if his boneheaded head coach didn't abandon the most important player on the field and leave him with no playmakers, no line, and no coordinator. It's criminal what we did to him.

SAR I

it was a sign that, maybe, he's just not that intelligent. Wish they would've picked up on that during the draft process. We've all got to witness this lack of intelligence, at least within the white lines, on a weekly basis for years.
When Mark plays well, we've got playmakers, at least when we had health. But when Mark plays like crap, which is nearly every week, the receivers are guilty by association.

[piney]

I think the idea that somehow from day 1 rex and Tanny should have known Sanchez would be this bad is a clear example of hindsight being 20/20. My recollection was that several teams were interested in Sanchez and that most people thought the Jets made a good move.

I do think he has some glaring flaws which include his accuracy and his ability to read defenses.

I think he has some great physical talent. He can be pretty mobile and throws well on the run.

I think that the team overestimated his ability when they began to allow important pieces of the offense to go away. The O-line and the offensive weapons got worse. In some cases exponentially worse.

I think Sanchez is too broken now to ever come back here and succeed. I think he needs to move on, go to a warm weather team or a dome team.

The saddest thing is he is still the best QB on the roster. Better than Tebow and better than Mcelroy.

[RMJK]

Originally Posted by piney

I think the idea that somehow from day 1 rex and Tanny should have known Sanchez would be this bad is a clear example of hindsight being 20/20. My recollection was that several teams were interested in Sanchez and that most people thought the Jets made a good move.

I do think he has some glaring flaws which include his accuracy and his ability to read defenses.

I think he has some great physical talent. He can be pretty mobile and throws well on the run.

I think that the team overestimated his ability when they began to allow important pieces of the offense to go away. The O-line and the offensive weapons got worse. In some cases exponentially worse.

I think Sanchez is too broken now to ever come back here and succeed. I think he needs to move on, go to a warm weather team or a dome team.

The saddest thing is he is still the best QB on the roster. Better than Tebow and better than Mcelroy.

Because of Tebow we have no one like the 49ers or Seattle have a good backup. Poor judgement in over estimating Tebows abilities. Who knows what McElroy can do after get concussed in his first start.

[piney]

Originally Posted by RMJK

Because of Tebow we have no one like the 49ers or Seattle have a good backup. Poor judgement in over estimating Tebows abilities. Who knows what McElroy can do after get concussed in his first start.

I think it is less over estimating Tebow and more overestimating Sanchez as a playmaker.

Last season they have Brunell (am I right with this?) who was never going to start a game, and this year they had Tebow who was never going to start a game.

They overestimated Sanchez's ability to be the centerpiece of the offense. Either Rex and Tanny are clueless or Sanchez is a film room, practice field stud.