There is no shortage of ways to examine these option QB's

[doggin94it]

I don't understand why CBs playing read option run defense are not coached to go hit the QB on every play. Assume he kept the ball, and if he runs out in your direction, level him. If he has the ball, it's a great tackle, if not, it's a free shot on the QB that shouldn't be penalized

[Snell41]

Originally Posted by doggin94it

I don't understand why CBs playing read option run defense are not coached to go hit the QB on every play. Assume he kept the ball, and if he runs out in your direction, level him. If he has the ball, it's a great tackle, if not, it's a free shot on the QB that shouldn't be penalized

Because "shouldn't and won't are two totally different things. Go ahead, level RG3, Kaepernick, Wilson, etc when they don't have the ball. Go ahead..... It'll be raining yellow.

[JaxSuzy]

Originally Posted by McGinley

Indeed. For as misguided as Demos is, he at least understands that Tim needs to improve. The others just have Tim's dick in their mouths all day long.

I wouldn't mind as much if they didn't try to pass themselves off as Jet fans when they'll be gone the moment he's out the door and ONLY came here for him in the first place. Hell, one of them (a certain Jacksonville native) even said they would cheer Tebow on and hope he kicked our asses if he goes to another team. You also see them use things like the 2011 Denver game to try to make fun of the Jets. Yet, they call themselves Jet fans.

Pathetic, really.

What else do you expect when you treat new fans like sh*t? Do you hate every "Hard Knocks" fan that became a new Jets fan? Do you hate every USC fan that became a Jets fan? I guess the only allowable way to increase the Jets Fan Population is through a breeding program. Hope Jets Fans don't become extinct.

[sackdance]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Anyone with a functional brain and set of eyeballs knows that Sanchez is terrible.

And so is Tebow.

Wrong. Tebow was never given the chance to be terrible. There are a sh*tton of intangibles at the QB position and most of TT's are good. Before the season at Denver he was projected starter - then his camp was so bad the whisper was he was 4th or even 5th best QB in camp - and was only kept because they drafted him so high (in relative terms). Then he was 2nd string. Then he did an excellent job quarterbacking the Broncos.

No matter how bad Sanchez played, and he played worse than any QB in the league, Tebow was never given the chance for someone like you to call him "terrible" - because as far as his resume goes playing QB in the NFL - it's "excellent".

One start. One start in this miserable season, Tebow could have come out and gone 9/22 for 100 yds and 2 picks. And he would have earned the right for us to call him terrible. But he was denied that. All I can judge him on was what he did for Denver and Florida before that.

The whole thing pisses me off - the way Tebow was handled shows us more how bad a coach Rex Ryan is than about how good (or bad) Tebow is at QB.

[Snell41]

Originally Posted by sackdance

Wrong. Tebow was never given the chance to be terrible. There are a sh*tton of intangibles at the QB position and most of TT's are good. Before the season at Denver he was projected starter - then his camp was so bad the whisper was he was 4th or even 5th best QB in camp - and was only kept because they drafted him so high (in relative terms). Then he was 2nd string. Then he did an excellent job quarterbacking the Broncos.

No matter how bad Sanchez played, and he played worse than any QB in the league, Tebow was never given the chance for someone like you to call him "terrible" - because as far as his resume goes playing QB in the NFL - it's "excellent".

One start. One start in this miserable season, Tebow could have come out and gone 9/22 for 100 yds and 2 picks. And he would have earned the right for us to call him terrible. But he was denied that. All I can judge him on was what he did for Denver and Florida before that.

The whole thing pisses me off - the way Tebow was handled shows us more how bad a coach Rex Ryan is than about how good (or bad) Tebow is at QB.

Tebow led an offense that averaged 16 offensive points per game. If that's your definition of excellent then the debate stops there because there really is no discussion beyond that. It's an impossible discussion when that's your stance..

[JaxSuzy]

Originally Posted by sackdance

Wrong. Tebow was never given the chance to be terrible. There are a sh*tton of intangibles at the QB position and most of TT's are good. Before the season at Denver he was projected starter - then his camp was so bad the whisper was he was 4th or even 5th best QB in camp - and was only kept because they drafted him so high (in relative terms). Then he was 2nd string. Then he did an excellent job quarterbacking the Broncos.

No matter how bad Sanchez played, and he played worse than any QB in the league, Tebow was never given the chance for someone like you to call him "terrible" - because as far as his resume goes playing QB in the NFL - it's "excellent".

One start. One start in this miserable season, Tebow could have come out and gone 9/22 for 100 yds and 2 picks. And he would have earned the right for us to call him terrible. But he was denied that. All I can judge him on was what he did for Denver and Florida before that.

The whole thing pisses me off - the way Tebow was handled shows us more how bad a coach Rex Ryan is than about how good (or bad) Tebow is at QB.

+10000000000 Sackdance! I wish Tebow'd been given a chance to suck for the Jets, if that's what he was going to do. As someone else said in another thread:

Tebow was a lottery ticket that Rex threw in a drawer and never checked against the lottery numbers to see if it was a winner.

Notice how Snell41 is quick to give all the credit to anybody else on the Broncos but Tebow. Is that how Sanchez was evaluated in 2009 and 2010? Cuz I distinctly thought I heard you guys say Sanchez was responsible for those championship games.

[sackdance]

Originally Posted by McGinley

The others just have Tim's dick in their mouths all day long.

What the f*ck is this disturbing visual supposed to mean? You and a select bunch have been at it nonstop for a year (and you haven't been here much longer than that). Well, I read plenty of gripes about how JI would be overrun with Tebow fans - the only thing we were overrun with was non-stop inappropriate b.s. from "fans" who couldn't contain their disdain for a committed Jet on the active roster.

Originally Posted by McGinley

Hell, one of them (a certain Jacksonville native) even said they would cheer Tebow on and hope he kicked our asses if he goes to another team. You also see them use things like the 2011 Denver game to try to make fun of the Jets. Yet, they call themselves Jet fans.

Pathetic, really.

Is it too much trouble to name names? Because my guess is that there's been a whole lot more cyber ink devoted to these alleged boogiemen than real deal "I'm only here for the Tebow, thanks" folks.

[sackdance]

Originally Posted by Snell41

Tebow led an offense that averaged 16 offensive points per game. If that's your definition of excellent then the debate stops there because there really is no discussion beyond that. It's an impossible discussion when that's your stance..

Well, I'm sure you kick a$s at fantasy football, but 6 games into the season the Broncos changed an offense on the fly that was simply run first and control the clock and not pass happy.

With that fairly radical change and with TT at QB they won more than they lost - and TT had a huge role in the turnaround. Not many QBs in the league could have done the job Tebow did in that offense. He was durable and he won. What the f*ck more do you want from a QB?

[JaxSuzy]

Originally Posted by sackdance

What the f*ck is this disturbing visual supposed to mean? You and a select bunch have been at it nonstop for a year (and you haven't been here much longer than that). Well, I read plenty of gripes about how JI would be overrun with Tebow fans - the only thing we were overrun with was non-stop inappropriate b.s. from "fans" who couldn't contain their disdain for a committed Jet on the active roster.

Is it too much trouble to name names? Because my guess is that there's been a whole lot more cyber ink devoted to these alleged boogiemen than real deal "I'm only here for the Tebow, thanks" folks.

Thank you, Sackdance. I thought I'd made some new friends on this site, including McGinley, but the past few weeks have been vicious and ugly here. I usually enjoy reading the posts and learning about the players and what's going on in the GM and OC search. Lately, though, practically every thread has a comment about "Teblow" or "Tebow Sucks" or a "Tebow Cult" on the Jets board is mentioned. Then I feel compelled to defend, then someone misconstrues my post as "Tebow is a HOF QB" and we're off again.

Freaking A, B and C. If I only wanted to talk about Tebow and not football, there are plenty of good Tebow forums that I can join. I like this board and come here to discuss football stuff. I found it a welcome relief after TGG. But lately, it's just sickening. Sorry, I know y'all don't want to hear all this girly crap, but the overt hatred is really starting to get to me. I know, I know ... fill out the Internet Butt Hurt Form, yeah. Still .... I know this is just the Internet, but does everybody have to hate Tebow fans?

[Snell41]

Originally Posted by sackdance

Well, I'm sure you kick a$s at fantasy football, but 6 games into the season the Broncos changed an offense on the fly that was simply run first and control the clock and not pass happy.

With that fairly radical change and with TT at QB they won more than they lost - and TT had a huge role in the turnaround. Not many QBs in the league could have done the job Tebow did in that offense. He was durable and he won. What the f*ck more do you want from a QB?

You're talking about redesigning an entire offense to suit his strengths over a performance that, when viewed objectively, had major question marks. I'm sorry but you're not going to find many NFL coaches or execs willing to put their careers on the line for that. Lets be clear, nothing Tebow has ever displayed has looked anywhere near as good as kaepernick, RG3, Wilson, Rogers, or even Newton. Ever. Everything with Tebow is based on "hey just take a chance and see what he can do". That's not how the NFL works.

[JaxSuzy]

Originally Posted by Snell41

You're talking about redesigning an entire offense to suit his strengths over a performance that, when viewed objectively, had major question marks. I'm sorry but you're not going to find many NFL coaches or execs willing to put their careers on the line for that. Lets be clear, nothing Tebow has ever displayed has looked anywhere near as good as kaepernick, RG3, Wilson, Rogers, or even Newton. Ever. Everything with Tebow is based on "hey just take a chance and see what he can do". That's not how the NFL works.

Evidently you have not watched a whole season of college games quarterbacked by Tebow or any of the 4th quarter games in Denver last year, because that is the real Tebow. Nobody said "just take a chance and see what he can do" for the hell of it. Before you derail this thread, let me assure you that I know college isn't the same as the pros, but it's definitely where we draft most of our players.

Your argument that nobody is willing to put their careers on the line for that is amusing. Quite a few good NFL teams are built around the QB, including the Patriots. Even Westy said that Sanchez needed to have a team built around him to succeed. It's not like it's some foreign idea in the NFL.

The read-option will be taking over the NFL just as it has in most of college football. Tebow is brilliant as a read-option QB but sucks as a drop-back pro-set QB. There's a HUGE difference between reading defenses for a pro-set QB and a read-option QB. And there's a HUGE difference between making pro-set timing throws and read-option open zone throws.
Tebow's read-option reads are spot on, and his read-option accuracy is excellent.

Rex's comments about finding an OC who is innovative enough to include "the pistol" and other creative plays don't really sound like a plan for Sanchez. I wouldn't be surprised if Tebow is still on the Jets next year.

[sackdance]

Originally Posted by Snell41

You're talking about redesigning an entire offense to suit his strengths over a performance that, when viewed objectively, had major question marks. I'm sorry but you're not going to find many NFL coaches or execs willing to put their careers on the line for that. Lets be clear, nothing Tebow has ever displayed has looked anywhere near as good as kaepernick, RG3, Wilson, Rogers, or even Newton. Ever. Everything with Tebow is based on "hey just take a chance and see what he can do". That's not how the NFL works.

This is valid. And if you remember, for the first 2 or 3 weeks when it seemed like Sanchez's team, the Tebow talk (or any Sanchez sucks talk) was non-existent.

But when we were 3-6, with Sanchez's atrocious play directly contributing to each loss (and would only get worse from there) - that's when it's perfectly within the NFL norm to "take a chance and see what he (whoever he may be) can do" - doing just that paid Denver massive dividends when they did it at 1-4 or 1-5.

The only thing we knew at mid-season was that Sanchez sucked and that there was zero reason to expect improvement from him that would make the Jets more competitive. As it stands, he went from awful to disastrously embarrassing. We had it coming.

[JaxSuzy]

Originally Posted by sackdance

This is valid. And if you remember, for the first 2 or 3 weeks when it seemed like Sanchez's team, the Tebow talk (or any Sanchez sucks talk) was non-existent.

But when we were 3-6, with Sanchez's atrocious play directly contributing to each loss (and would only get worse from there) - that's when it's perfectly within the NFL norm to "take a chance and see what he (whoever he may be) can do" - doing just that paid Denver massive dividends when they did it at 1-4 or 1-5.

The only thing we knew at mid-season was that Sanchez sucked and that there was zero reason to expect improvement from him that would make the Jets more competitive. As it stands, he went from awful to disastrously embarrassing. We had it coming.

God, I never wanted to see that happen to Sanchez. I was hoping Tebow could help based on what Rex and Sparano said at all the press conferences. I hoped Tebow could learn behind an established QB, which is what I thought Sanchez was .... I guess because of the 2009 and 2010 seasons. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect the embarrassment of this season. Maybe an innovative QB coach and OC can come up with a system that uses them both so we can start winning. I hate the Pats!

[BIGKIDD325]

Wow didn't mean to turn this into a bash-our-QB thread. Should've seen it coming.

But for the record, I don't think Tebow is a dual-threat QB. He can't throw. But he still might be able to run this stuff. It's pretty much what he was doing in Denver.

[Jet Blast]

Originally Posted by BIGKIDD325

Wow didn't mean to turn this into a bash-our-QB thread. Should've seen it coming.

But for the record, I don't think Tebow is a dual-threat QB. He can't throw. But he still might be able to run this stuff. It's pretty much what he was doing in Denver.

I think Tebow throws a decent long ball. It's his short and intermediate passes that are inaccurate.

[DDNYjets]

Like anything else I think this option game is good in moderation. But the key to their success is the fact that they can throw the ball. Tebow is not a threat to throw the ball.

Of the three, Wilson RG3 and Kaep, I think I would prefer to have Kaep. I was really impressed with his willingness to slide, even on a 4 yd run. I don't think Kaep has the quick twitch or elusiveness inside the pocket of RG3 but in the open field he is just as fast. Plus he is tall and can see the field.

Only thing Kaep needs to work on is his touch. Seems like nearly everything is a fastball. Sometimes you need to make things easy on your receivers.

If you want to have that style of offense in NY Tebow is NOT the guy to do it with. He simply cannot throw the football. Not to mention our OL is nowhere near as good as SF. They are better than us at every single position.

Why are we not hiring Gamble again?

[NYJets4life]

Originally Posted by JB1089

Tebow can't throw half as well as any of these guys. He's also not as fast in the open field.

There it is.

There are other people that are way better at doing the things that he's known for doing well.


And they can already throw...

[LIJetsFan]

Thanks everyone for turning this into a Tebow thread. Not what I signed up for when I read the thread title.

[sackdance]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Why are we not hiring Gamble again?

Apparently he didn't impress Woody Johnson.

Let's rephrase this: Woody Johnson thinks he can do better than Tom Gamble.

[DDNYjets]

Originally Posted by sackdance

Apparently he didn't impress Woody Johnson.

Let's rephrase this: Woody Johnson thinks he can do better than Tom Gamble.

LOL.

Woody should start doing the exact opposite of what he wants to do and see how that works out.