In house Guard options

[GenoT]

Originally Posted by Jetworks

From what I saw last year, Moore has lost any athleticism he once had. Whether that is a result of the double hip surgery or not is up for debate I suppose. Either way, the Jets need to address the position in the first or second round.

Moore can still pass block, his hip problem has defintley hampered his run blocking though.But we can buy with him at right guard another year.Its the one position on the line that you can get by with an average player. Left guard, where your asking him to pull, and double on the teams best pass rusher you need a stud.@nd round this year on a left guard, and a late round pick on another????????

[GenoT]

Originally Posted by Jetworks

From what I saw last year, Moore has lost any athleticism he once had. Whether that is a result of the double hip surgery or not is up for debate I suppose. Either way, the Jets need to address the position in the first or second round.

Sorry for all the typo's, Lol

[Jetworks]

Originally Posted by GenoT

Moore can still pass block, his hip problem has defintley hampered his run blocking though.But we can buy with him at right guard another year.Its the one position on the line that you can get by with an average player. Left guard, where your asking him to pull, and double on the teams best pass rusher you need a stud.@nd round this year on a left guard, and a late round pick on another????????

Originally Posted by GenoT

Sorry for all the typo's, Lol

No worries, I was able to muddle through and figure it all out.

If Moore is willing to come back on the cheap, I'm all for it if for no other reason than the locker room and tutelage of whoever the Jets draft. I also want to see Mangold drop around 20 or so pounds as I feel he has lost some of his (limited) quickness and it would benefit his ankles.

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Problem is, how do we properly evaluate Schauderaff? We'll have a new OC, Degug is probably a goner and Caleb S. never got any playing time. How can any staff go into the FA/Draft with any type of confidence that this bench warmer for 3 years has a legit shot at starting?

In hindsight, the Vlad rotation paid off somewhat as at least the team can see what they have in Vlad. I saw some good and some not as good, but my guess is that he's going to be a starter and that probably can work out OK - depending on what happens on the other side.

+1

Schlauderaff is nothing more than depth at this point. I don't even think he played one snap this year, and he probably played about two dozen snaps in '11.

I'm content with Vlad starting next year at guard just as long as some bobo isn't starting at the other guard spot. He's not great or anything, but I saw a few good things last year w/ regard to run blocking. If nothing else, the dude is strong as an ox.

Originally Posted by crasherino

I wouldn't mind seeing an upgrade at RT and see if Howard could move inside. He scares me being on an island out there.

I don't see that happening.

Howard is 6'7". That's way too tall to play guard.

[Dreamers]

Originally Posted by Yankeejet22

Guys. David DeCastro was according to many a sure-fire All-Pro OG in the making last year. And where was he drafted?

24th

and some think that was too high based on the position he plays.

No to any OG going top 20.

At 9, it would be a crime.

This only if we trade down should we draft a G. I think Celab would be a good G for us. Resign Moore he will be cheap and draft a RT/G in the 4-5 rounds. This is a deep RT/G draft. Uzzi, Bailly, Wagner, Winters, and Watson are all really good guys to have in mid/late rounds.

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

I don't see that happening.

Howard is 6'7". That's way too tall to play guard.

Its taller than your average Guard, sure. Off the top of my head Robert Gallery moved inside and was a lot more effective - might have been others too.

But, bottom line, I really think we could use an upgrade from Howard. He's better than Hunter was in 11', but so was everybody in the NFL who started at RT in 12'. If Moore comes back (and is healthy) and we can find a RT starter in the draft, I'd be OK with having Howard as a swing tackle.

[GenoT]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Its taller than your average Guard, sure. Off the top of my head Robert Gallery moved inside and was a lot more effective - might have been others too.

But, bottom line, I really think we could use an upgrade from Howard. He's better than Hunter was in 11', but so was everybody in the NFL who started at RT in 12'. If Moore comes back (and is healthy) and we can find a RT starter in the draft, I'd be OK with having Howard as a swing tackle.

remember we traded for him, but he couldn't pass the physical. supposedly he's been training since then at that retired Rams school,getting himself healthy and in mental and physical shape for a return. maybe we take another look at him

[Dreamers]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Its taller than your average Guard, sure. Off the top of my head Robert Gallery moved inside and was a lot more effective - might have been others too.

But, bottom line, I really think we could use an upgrade from Howard. He's better than Hunter was in 11', but so was everybody in the NFL who started at RT in 12'. If Moore comes back (and is healthy) and we can find a RT starter in the draft, I'd be OK with having Howard as a swing tackle.

There was 0 difference between Howard and Hunter IMO people just liked him more. Howard would have made a better G IMO. At least better then Slauson. People are all how are we going to replace these guys why? I can throw a rock into a Wendys and find that find of talent. At worst we gamble on a no name and still find someone better then those guys IMO.

[DDNYjets]

We definitely need to invest heavily in the OL b.c it will be rewarded. Look no further than the benefits we reaped in 2006 and the current 49ers OL and how that was built (and if you think Howard is too big to play Guard then you should really take a look at the 49ers).

I wouldn't mind one bit if we took OL with our first two picks. There is no sexy way to cure our problems. We need to go big and ugly (just not Vlad). We can worry about the frosting later on.

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Its taller than your average Guard, sure. Off the top of my head Robert Gallery moved inside and was a lot more effective - might have been others too.

But, bottom line, I really think we could use an upgrade from Howard. He's better than Hunter was in 11', but so was everybody in the NFL who started at RT in 12'. If Moore comes back (and is healthy) and we can find a RT starter in the draft, I'd be OK with having Howard as a swing tackle.

Fair enough. I just think the examples are too far and few between. Maybe he could do it.

Of course Howard could be upgraded, but I really don't think it's a pressing issue on this team, especially given the salary cap squeeze we will be in for at least the next season.

Howard is:

a) Young
b) Cheap

We'd only have to pay him ~$1.2MM to be our starter next year. That's peanuts. And while he's not great, he seems to be solid in the run game which is vital at that spot. FWIW, according to Pro Football Focus, Howard's overall grade (run/pass/penalties) was +8.5 this year. For that price, I'll take an average to slightly above average RT any day of the week.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

Fair enough. I just think the examples are too far and few between. Maybe he could do it.

Of course Howard could be upgraded, but I really don't think it's a pressing issue on this team, especially given the salary cap squeeze we will be in for at least the next season.

Howard is:

a) Young
b) Cheap

We'd only have to pay him ~$1.2MM to be our starter next year. That's peanuts. And while he's not great, he seems to be solid in the run game which is vital at that spot. FWIW, according to Pro Football Focus, Howard's overall grade (run/pass/penalties) was +8.5 this year. For that price, I'll take an average to slightly above average RT any day of the week.

With his strength and athletic ability having been a LT most of his playing career, has anyone given any thought to moving Austin Howard inside to LG .

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

Originally Posted by JoeJam Football

There are no in house guard options. Mr T did a absolutely horrible job at this position. How in the world do you draft a guard bust in the second round? You cant do that if u tried. He scored a 13 on the wonderlic test - that is a 4th grade level. He has the brain of a 4th grader and a pro football players body. Good pick Mr T. As far as Schlauderaff - oh I heard several times that MrT liked him alot. Hes been on the Jets for what 3 seasons and I havnt seen him play a snap. Glad u held on to him. Glad you were fired Mr T!

Wasn't Ducasse actually a RT coming out in the Draft? Jeez..a 13 on the Wonderlic? He also has a language barrier. Imagine the chaos between him and Sanchez (who is as confused as any QB I've ever seen when he tries to audible out of a play).

But again, it all goes back to paying a handful of players the majority of the Cap. You're going to get aggressive like that, they better ALL be home-run hitters, yet we have ZERO at the Skill Positions....just sad. Even on D, David Harris isn't a playmaker and is just about the highest paid LB in the NFL.

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

With his strength and athletic ability having been a LT most of his playing career, has anyone given any thought to moving Austin Howard inside to LG .

Crash suggested it earlier in the thread.

I dunno.

IMHO, Howard is an acceptable starter at RT in my book. Sure, he wasn't great as a pass blocker, but he wasn't bottom of the barrel in that department. If we actually had a QB with an iota of pocket presence, Howard would get a lot more love. He's already an adequate run blocker. Plus, this was his first year playing RT...he's still young (he'll only be 26 in '13) and he's a converted TE from college. I still think there's still room for some growth here.

This draft is loaded with Guards. Besides, finding a Guard is likely easier than finding a RT....remember last year's free agency class? And yes, I know Andre Smith is out there, but we don't have the type of money to take on that kind of risk...guy is good but he's also a dumbass.

[Tackleem]

Brandon Moore was an UDFA in 2002. The Jets cut him in 2009. Now he's a Pro-Bowler. Linemen take time.

1) I think Howard has more upside left.

2) I think Ducasse would not be a disaster at RG, slightly more concerned at LG.

3) I think you resign the cheaper of Moore or Slauson, draft OG in the mid-rounds, and duke it out between those two, Ducasse, and Caleb in training camp.

4) All of this is dependent on what Mornhinweg has in mind. If he's installing a true west-coast offense, you need slightly more athletic guards.

[GreenReaper]

Originally Posted by Yankeejet22

Guys. David DeCastro was according to many a sure-fire All-Pro OG in the making last year. And where was he drafted?

24th

and some think that was too high based on the position he plays.

No to any OG going top 20.

At 9, it would be a crime.

No way is Idzik drafting a guard with 9th pick of the draft. A Joeckel yes.

[Redlichtie]

Originally Posted by JoeJam Football

There are no in house guard options. Mr T did a absolutely horrible job at this position. How in the world do you draft a guard bust in the second round? You cant do that if u tried. He scored a 13 on the wonderlic test - that is a 4th grade level. He has the brain of a 4th grader and a pro football players body. Good pick Mr T. As far as Schlauderaff - oh I heard several times that MrT liked him alot. Hes been on the Jets for what 3 seasons and I havnt seen him play a snap. Glad u held on to him. Glad you were fired Mr T!

You do realise he's from Haiti and English is not his first language right?

[Redlichtie]

I think part of the problem is we really haven't established where the blame lies here.

On the one hand we have 3/5th's of a line that was considered one of the elite units in the league only a couple of years ago,but we all saw that line totally overwhelmed by a fairly humdrum San Diego pass rush to the tune of 11 sacks,our eyes did not deceive us,that can't all be on Mark and there was no Wayne Hunter to blame.Even Ducasse wasn't in on all of those plays(I actually thought I saw some really good blocks by Vlad this year but the narrative is he's hot garbage so I must be mistaken)......so:

are the players on that line vastly overrated?
does the QB take much of the blame?
is it a scheme/coaching the issue?
combination of all of the above?

It's tough to believe that Mangold & Ferguson aren't still upper tier players at their position and Moore remains in my view underrated,take the infamous Buttfumble.Collinsworrth fell over himself to overrate the contribution of Wilfork when it was clear as day he was being totally neutralised by Moore 1-on-1 until Sanchez came careering in.....that's Moore,always undersold.My view is that not only is Moore still a very good player but at his age,in the position he plays,still has 2 or 3 quality years in him.Moreover with the offensive side of the ball so sorely lacking in leaders the respect BM commands in the locker-room cannot be overlooked.

If there's a weak link it's Slauson.Solid 6th round contributor and actually exposed Faneca as being hugely overrated when he replaced him but unless someone who can break down film better than me can show me where I'm wrong then for me it's:

New OL coach or schematic change(likely happening anyway)
Re-sign Brandon Moore
Let Slauson walk
Howard at RT
Vlad for depth with the chance to have one last go at competing for a starting slot at either RT or LG
Draft a LG in Rd 2(Dallas Thomas)or 3

[Flaming Mo]

I think part of the line's late season collapse gets overrated because we have to put things in perspective. Every opponent knew that we would not hurt them deep. Every opponent knew that our QBs had no confidence. So all they did was blitz the living hell out of us. There is so long you can hold up as an offensive line when down after down a wave of blitzes rolls at you. A QB plays a big part in terms of protection as we see year after year in NE.

[Redlichtie]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

I think part of the line's late season collapse gets overrated because we have to put things in perspective. Every opponent knew that we would not hurt them deep. Every opponent knew that our QBs had no confidence. So all they did was blitz the living hell out of us. There is so long you can hold up as an offensive line when down after down a wave of blitzes rolls at you. A QB plays a big part in terms of protection as we see year after year in NE.

Good point,little bit of everything combines to spiral out of control.The good news there is that it doesn't require wholesale changes to necessarily turn things around

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

+1

Schlauderaff is nothing more than depth at this point. I don't even think he played one snap this year, and he probably played about two dozen snaps in '11.

I'm content with Vlad starting next year at guard just as long as some bobo isn't starting at the other guard spot. He's not great or anything, but I saw a few good things last year w/ regard to run blocking. If nothing else, the dude is strong as an ox.





I don't see that happening.

Howard is 6'7". That's way too tall to play guard.

What are you guys watching? Moore is finished. Callahan wanted to bench him for Schlauderaff last season. He's probably Moore's replacement next season.

And Ducasse sucks. He whiffs like crazy. If you want your QB killed, he's your guy.

Schlauderaff will be starting and the other OG isn't on the roster right now. Really, the only FA that the Jets need to re-sign is Landry. Everyone else is JAG.