Hey SAR...

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Nope.

No one has come forward with a list of reasons why Rex Ryan is worthy of remaining head coach of the Jets.

Posting "I want to see what he looks like when he gets rid of everyone he hand-selected" 10x in different ways is not a valid answer.

SAR I

Not evenyone.

Just Sanchez.

Sorry you're having such a bad offseason thus far brofist, with Ryan retained, a GM soon to be hired you already hate sight-unseen, Mods warning you to cut the schtick. Must be a tough time for SAR (see what I did there, I'm talking to you, but I reference you in third person, just like you do when discussing yourself, lol, funny ain't it!) right now.

You have a good day my friend.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by Down, Set, Haiku

About a week ago, you gave the Rex-ites a blank sheet to give the rest of JI 10 reasons why Rex is a "great" coach and why he should lead this team going forward. I myself was looking forward to some reasons as I can't think of one reason why that lard-@ss should still be here. Did you get any filled in sheets yet? (I'm guessing no lol)

We already had that debate. It wasn't even a contest. He asked for 10 items and I gave him 11.

His response was to say he didn't need a history lesson. He wanted to know what made Rex Ryan the best HC for the Jets going forward?

Well, SAR just doesn't seem to understand that "history determines your future". It's what you have done for your employer that ultimately determines whether or not that employer keeps you.

In other words, he had no response for my comeback. Therefore, he resorted to saying things like the "onus is on me" and history means NOTHING in determining one's future.

He wanted to know things specifically like time clock management. As though that would prove his argument. Even though he still doesn't even realize it's those very accomplishments I mentioned that prove things like clock management. You don't achieve such accolades as Rex without being good at things such as clock management and all that other garbage he's trying to spew.

So after he came back with the psychological coma crap response, I ended the debate. I just told him I wasn't going to argue with a child that has believes what he wants to believe. Does not believe any thing you tell him that is FACT and just keeps on saying nonsense stuff like "the onus is on you".

[Fishooked]

Originally Posted by Jordy

I really have nothing to add to this particular topic but I would like to take this opportunity to say how much better this board has been over the last week or so since the bannings of Ray Ray19 and sg3.

That is all.

Are those temporary, or of the permaban nature?

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

We already had that debate. It wasn't even a contest. He asked for 10 items and I gave him 11.

His response was to say he didn't need a history lesson. He wanted to know what made Rex Ryan the best HC for the Jets going forward?

Well, SAR just doesn't seem to understand that "history determines your future". It's what you have done for your employer that ultimately determines whether or not that employer keeps you.

In other words, he had no response for my comeback. Therefore, he resorted to saying things like the "onus is on me" and history means NOTHING in determining one's future.

He wanted to know things specifically like time clock management. As though that would prove his argument. Even though he still doesn't even realize it's those very accomplishments I mentioned that prove things like clock management. You don't achieve such accolades as Rex without being good at things such as clock management and all that other garbage he's trying to spew.

So after he came back with the psychological coma crap response, I ended the debate. I just told him I wasn't going to argue with a child that has believes what he wants to believe. Does not believe any thing you tell him that is FACT and just keeps on saying nonsense stuff like "the onus is on you".

Originally Posted by Mainejet

And since when did 10 things become the expectation of a good HC? Where do you come up with this sh*t? But what the hell, I'll do it anyway:

1) 34-30 record. A WINNING RECORD.

2) The number 1 defense in 2009. NO ONE better.

3) The number 1 running game in 2009. NO ONE better.

4) MULTIPLE playoff wins in 2009. Including beating Philip Rivers on the road

5) MULTIPLE playoff wins in 2010. Including beating Peyton Manning AND Tom Brady on the road. Those are the two of the best QB's in the game. You CAN'T get any better than that.

6) Doing MORE with LESS by winning multiple playoff games in 2009 with a team that was 9-7 and probably shouldn't have even made the playoffs if not for teams that had already secured their respective playoff spots. They beat teams with records of 10-6 and 13-3 respectively.

7) Top 10 defenses in every single season he's been in NY. Has BB EVER had top 10 defenses in 4 consecutive seasons? NO. Did Parcells? NO.

8) Making it all the way to the AFC Championship in 2009. Something NO ONE in their right minds would have ever thought possible in that year.

9) Making it all the way to the AFC Championship in 2010.

10) Doing all of the above while being on his FIRST Head Coaching stint EVER. Has ANY other HC done as much as Rex has in their first stints as HC? NO.

11) Only ONE losing season in 4 seasons as HC. Was BB able to do that in 5 seasons (one more than Rex Ryan has coached) in his first HCing stint? NO.

I could go on but I don't need to. You asked for 10 and I gave you 11. Even though it's absurd to even demand that much. It's a subjective matter.

Above is your list.

It's nothing but a recap of what Rex Ryan accomplished 3 or 4 years ago, half the players contributing to those successes gone and replaced with lesser talent. Not to mention all the coordinators and coaches flushed too.

It's 2013. We are now a rebuilding project. Requires a certain type of head coach. The original question was 'what makes Rex Ryan the right head coach for the Jets today'. Would love to see you answer it.

SAR I

[LB54]

Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist

2 Non winning seasons in a row, is not good. Going 8-8 vs 7-9 isn't really a big change, but is that really enough to give Rex another change?

Ask the Giants whats the difference from being 8-8 and make the playoffs and being 7-9.. i think they went pretty deep into the playoffs with an 8-8 record

[Tinstar]

I have only 2 reasons pro and con as to why i want Rex Ryan to go or to stay.

On the pro side, as a HC he's a great DC who has found a way to keep this Jet team in games without the befefit of a true playmaker. While Revis is the best CB in football and argueably the top defensive player in the league, he doesn't make alot of plays . You can't make plays when the opponents don't throw the ball towards your side of the field.

On the con side, as a great DC, he's a hirrible HC who has found a way to be ignorant of what is going on either within his team or his coaching staff. It is the hight of incompetence when you as the boss openly admits not knowing what was going on in a certain part of your operation. To admit that and then just 1 yr later admit to not being in lock step with the coaching staff is grounds for firing.

I happen to agree with Warfish in this aspect. I believe in playing strong defense and running the football as the way to winning the Championship. To that end, the QB must be someone who can execute the short passing game with ease, manage the ebb and flo of the game and still be able to throw the ball downfield when the opportunity prevents itself.

I want Rex fired, but if he is to return, what i would like to see is him remove himself from the Game day play calling and become a real HC. Manage the team or quit and go become what u like doing.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Would love to see you answer it.

SAR I

Like some of us always wanted to see SAR answer, in advance, who SAR specificly wanted (and specificly why) as GM and Head Coach and O-Co, right?

Maybe he should answer like SAR does, and just say "Give Bill Bellichek 10% of Team Ownership and take the hit for tampering" and/or "I don't know who we should hire as GM, I just know they're better than whomever we do hire".

So lets summarize.

SAR I's GM Choice: Anyone we do not hire.

SAR I's Head Coach Choice: Bill Bellichek, 10% of Team ownership and the loss of all 2013 Draft Picks for tampering.

SAR I's 2013 Uncontested Starting QB: Mark Sanchez

Remind me, who was your O-Co choice.....or has SAR not made one yet, preferring (like GM) to wait and simply lambast whomever is hired?

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by Down, Set, Haiku

About a week ago, you gave the Rex-ites a blank sheet to give the rest of JI 10 reasons why Rex is a "great" coach and why he should lead this team going forward. I myself was looking forward to some reasons as I can't think of one reason why that lard-@ss should still be here. Did you get any filled in sheets yet? (I'm guessing no lol)

See? This is exactly what I was talking about. You give him answers and he argues with your answers. Even though they are FACTS. Even though I already established as any normal person would do, you determine one's future by what he's done in the past.

SAR lives in his own world where only what HE says is true.

Originally Posted by SAR I

Above is your list.

It's nothing but a recap of what Rex Ryan accomplished 3 or 4 years ago, half the players contributing to those successes gone and replaced with lesser talent. Not to mention all the coordinators and coaches flushed too.

It's 2013. We are now a rebuilding project. Requires a certain type of head coach. The original question was 'what makes Rex Ryan the right head coach for the Jets today'. Would love to see you answer it.

SAR I

[DDNYjets]

Originally Posted by Fishooked

Are those temporary, or of the permaban nature?

I don't know but the difference is very noticeable. This week there has been good debates that haven't degenerated into profanity-laced tirades.

Thanks to the mod who made that happen.

[gunnails]

Sar I for Mod.

Get on the bus!

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by Warfish

Not evenyone.

Just Sanchez.

Sorry you're having such a bad offseason thus far brofist, with Ryan retained, a GM soon to be hired you already hate sight-unseen, Mods warning you to cut the schtick. Must be a tough time for SAR (see what I did there, I'm talking to you, but I reference you in third person, just like you do when discussing yourself, lol, funny ain't it!) right now.

You have a good day my friend.

Where have you been? We have needed some posts like this all season. Good to see you back. I'll blame your exodus on the Tebowites lol

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

See? This is exactly what I was talking about. You give him answers and he argues with your answers. Even though they are FACTS. Even though I already established as any normal person would do, you determine one's future by what he's done in the past.

SAR lives in his own world where only what HE says is true.

We go back a long ways, but if you're going to continue to attack me personally please don't respond to this.

I know all the facts, I know the reasons why Rex Ryan had success with a veteran team in 2009 and 2010 and why he deserved his job on opening day 2011. That's what you're recapping. Thank you, got it, knew all those things three seasons ago. That's not what the issue is now.

We're entering 2013 with a rebuilding squad, new coaching staff, new GM, new everything. So what makes Rex Ryan the choice for a different job like this? And don't say "Because in 2009 he....." because it's not 2009 anymore.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Warfish Like some of us always wanted to see SAR answer, in advance, who SAR specificly wanted (and specificly why) as GM and Head Coach and O-Co, right?

I don't recall you filling in those blanks, don't recall you asking every other poster for their list. Please show me where everyone else put their names on these positions.

Maybe he should answer like SAR does, and just say "Give Bill Bellichek 10% of Team Ownership and take the hit for tampering" and/or "I don't know who we should hire as GM, I just know they're better than whomever we do hire".

I'm not asking someone to take a guess at who the new GM, OC, DC, etc. etc. will be because that's not something the typical Jets fan would be good at. I wouldn't even care to listen if offered, in fact.

Ah, but giving 10 simple reasons why Rex Ryan is a great head coach for the 2013 Jets? Anyone can do that. Especially fans who have seen 200+ games in their lives. Should be very simple to tell us why Rex Ryan is great for this year's team without the history lesson.

So lets summarize.

SAR I's GM Choice: Anyone we do not hire.

Never said that. Not sure why you're lying, not very proper. What I'm on record as wanting was an experienced personnel guy, an A+ candidate, someone who can right this ship. The GM position is more important than the HC. The HC can last 3-4 years. A GM can last 6-8. There were 7 GM openings, we're #7 on the list. No one wants to come here. We're going to get the prom queen's ugly sister. We are going to the backup college.

SAR I's Head Coach Choice: Bill Bellichek, 10% of Team ownership and the loss of all 2013 Draft Picks for tampering.

Ah, so here is my response to your question of "not putting my name on it" and just "calling out the issues". So I come up with a very good, very bold answer.....and that's wrong too. Get your story straight.

SAR I's 2013 Uncontested Starting QB: Mark Sanchez

I never said that. If you're going to lie, don't waste my time. I said Mark Sanchez has a 30% chance to perhaps be a good QB under different circumstances. Well, the 'different circumstances' are here. New OC, new players, new everything right around the corner. Let's give him a chance. That's the rational decision. You just want to throw him aside. Not smart.

Remind me, who was your O-Co choice.....or has SAR not made one yet, preferring (like GM) to wait and simply lambast whomever is hired?

Show me the list of every JI posters' choices for these positions. Or, better yet, show me yours. I don't recall you taking a position on anyone, just pointing out other posters' issues and demanding answers you yourself won't give.

SAR I

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by SAR I

We're entering 2013 with a rebuilding squad

There is no such thing as "rebuilding" in the modern NFL. No one "rebuilds".

Everyone retools, at most.

new coaching staff, new GM, new everything.

Same O-line.
Same O-Skill Players with perhaps one or two addition.
Same QB, sadly, but most likely.
Same D-Line.

Different Linebackers (2 of 4) and Safties (maybe).

Not exactly "new everything".

So what makes Rex Ryan the choice for a different job like this?

As a conservative, defense oriented Head Coach who also believes in time of posession and a solid ground game, Ryan should (stress should) be able to keep the Jets competative for the post-season in 2013 even during a rebuild/retool period of change in the front office and at O-Co. His Defense will absolutely keep the Jets in most games, and if the glut of turnovers can be addressed at the QB position in some way, the offense under Ryan (even with only minor change overall) is enough to be competative. If, as you claim, we are in a rebuild, all you want from your Coach is continued development of young talent, and competativeness in each and every game for as long as possible.

There are a number of reasons why Ryan should have been fired. Everyone can agree on that. An outright inabillity to coach a competative team in 2013 is not one of them. His seeming manlove for Sanchez, on the other hand...

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by SAR I

I don't recall you filling in those blanks, don't recall you asking every other poster for their list. Please show me where everyone else put their names on these positions.

Deflection. You took a public position, and were unable to defend it when questioned more deeply about that position.

I'm not asking someone to take a guess at who the new GM, OC, DC, etc. etc. will be because that's not something the typical Jets fan would be good at. I wouldn't even care to listen if offered, in fact.

Deflection. "Anyone but..." is not a valid position on running a business.

Ah, but giving 10 simple reasons why Rex Ryan is a great head coach for the 2013 Jets? Anyone can do that. Especially fans who have seen 200+ games in their lives. Should be very simple to tell us why Rex Ryan is great for this year's team without the history lesson.

Already done in this thread once, and doen again in my reply above.

Never said that. Not sure why you're lying, not very proper. What I'm on record as wanting was an experienced personnel guy, an A+ candidate, someone who can right this ship.

Your lack of enthusiasm for almost every candidate mentuioned, and your specific disdain for the gentleman from Seattle is on record.

The fact that you are unable or unwilling to name or support-in-advance a single candidate that fits your description is also on record.

Ah, so here is my response to your question of "not putting my name on it" and just "calling out the issues". So I come up with a very good, very bold answer.....and that's wrong too. Get your story straight.

It's a 100% unrealistic answer, worse than simpyl a non-answer because you know it's 100% unrealistic. You may as well have said you're resurrect Weeb Eubank with strange new alien technology....and offer him 10% of teh etam to Coach it.

Your answer is not bold. Your answer is simply fantasy, despigned specificly so you do not have to put your name on any real-world options.

I never said that. If you're going to lie, don't waste my time. I said Mark Sanchez has a 30% chance to perhaps be a good QB under different circumstances. Well, the 'different circumstances' are here. New OC, new players, new everything right around the corner. Let's give him a chance. That's the rational decision. You just want to throw him aside. Not smart.

Again, your position in support of Mark Sanchez as the startign QB of the New York Jets in 2013, despite beign the worst QB of the past four seasons, is on record for those who wish to wade through your thousands of recent posts on the topic.

Show me the list of every JI posters' choices for these positions. Or, better yet, show me yours. I don't recall you taking a position on anyone, just pointing out other posters' issues and demanding answers you yourself won't give.

More deflection. You have no named any O-Co, but surely you will denounce whomever is hired.

Same as you've already done for our GM.

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

I happen to agree with Warfish in this aspect. I believe in playing strong defense and running the football as the way to winning the Championship. To that end, the QB must be someone who can execute the short passing game with ease, manage the ebb and flo of the game and still be able to throw the ball downfield when the opportunity prevents itself.

I am always curious about this concept...why does a great defense have to go with running the ball/ground and pound/conservative offense? What is it about great defenses that necessitates a low scoring companion on the offensive side?

Shouldn't we strive for both a defense that keeps the score down as much as possible along with an offense that scores as many points as possible?

I get that a game plan would be to run the ball, dominate the TOP and keep the score low, when that fits the bill, but what type of defense goes well with a high scoring offense....a mediocre one?

It its an allocation of resources - I guess I understand, but it seems more of a philosophy - you run the ball and then play great defense. How about you light the scoreboard and also play great defense?

They seem mutually exclusive to me.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by crasherino

I am always curious about this concept...why does a great defense have to go with running the ball/ground and pound/conservative offense? What is it about great defenses that necessitates a low scoring companion on the offensive side?

It's based upon winning the time-of-posession battle and the turnover battle.

Thought being, that if you have a great Defense (or sorta-great), you maximize that by limiting the opportunities an opposing great offense gets in any given game. Best (in theory) way to do that is clock-chomping via a productive, bruising running game, ball control, and limited risks/turnovers.

If Tom Brady has 15 posessions, he can score 40. If he has 8 posessions, maybe not.

Shouldn't we strive for both a defense that keeps the score down as much as possible along with an offense that scores as many points as possible?

High-scoring offenses usually come with high-risk, turnover-risky, clock-weak schemes that leave your defense on the field for long stretches of the game, give the opponent many more posessions of their own (i.e. shootout) and does nothign to wear down their defense, whilst wearing down your own heavily.

I get that a game plan would be to run the ball, dominate the TOP and keep the score low, when that fits the bill, but what type of defense goes well with a high scoring offense....a mediocre one?

Certainly seems the way of it....just look at all the faildefenses in the playoffs, getting their doors blown off at-will by these great offenses and playig de facto shootouts.

It its an allocation of resources - I guess I understand, but it seems more of a philosophy - you run the ball and then play great defense. How about you light the scoreboard and also play great defense?

They seem mutually exclusive to me.

It's awful hard to have both a great pass-happy scoring O and a great D. Needs massive amounts of talent, a QB who never turns the ball over and has long sunstained time-chomping but fruitful drives, and a defense so good it doesn't end up on the field forever and worn out after your O does all that fast scoring.

Not impossible of course, just real hard.

I'm not (btw) saying Rex's way is the only answer to winning, it's clearly not, and it's clearly the odd-style-out in the NFL today, by design of the NFL itself.

Imagine the Jets with 10 less turnovers each year, and a RB who can actually break one long once in a while (and maybe one more WR worth discussing). Thats what we could/should be, if the QB play (i.e. turnovers, complettion percentage, third down conversion and long sustained drives) can be improved substantially from the past 4 regular seasons.

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by Warfish

Imagine the Jets with 10 less turnovers each year, and a RB who can actually break one long once in a while (and maybe one more WR worth discussing). Thats what we could/should be, if the QB play (i.e. turnovers, complettion percentage, third down conversion and long sustained drives) can be improved substantially from the past 4 regular seasons.

That's just it - if we had a RB who could break one, one more WR worth discussing and a QB who wouldn't turn the ball over, we'd have a much higher scoring offense - we wouldn't need to be "Ground and Pound".

The problem with "Ground and Pound" is that you need to go on 10+ scoring play drives every time you hope to score. Too much **** can go wrong. You need to have guys who can break off a big play from time to time.

Its more and more evident that Ground and Pound, in today's game, simply means "We don't have a very good QB so we're going to do as good a job as possible to not **** up the game." Its a strategy born out of necessity, not by choice.

If you are up against Tom Brady and the highest scoring offense in the history of the game, sure - go to a ground and pound gameplan. In a sense, Ground and Pound makes sense as a tactic, not a strategy.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by crasherino

That's just it - if we had a RB who could break one, one more WR worth discussing and a QB who wouldn't turn the ball over, we'd have a much higher scoring offense - we wouldn't need to be "Ground and Pound".

The problem with "Ground and Pound" is that you need to go on 10+ scoring play drives every time you hope to score. Too much **** can go wrong. You need to have guys who can break off a big play from time to time.

Its more and more evident that Ground and Pound, in today's game, simply means "We don't have a very good QB so we're going to do as good a job as possible to not **** up the game." Its a strategy born out of necessity, not by choice.

If you are up against Tom Brady and the highest scoring offense in the history of the game, sure - go to a ground and pound gameplan. In a sense, Ground and Pound makes sense as a tactic, not a strategy.

I think you're mixing your terms and/or getting caught up in a Rex Ryanism.

A stroong rushing game (i.e. "ground and pound") can definitely score points.

It simply has to be done right, and have the talent.

Ours wasn't.

And we don't.

Yet.

What Ryan's G&P was primarily designed to do was cover Sanchez's obvious shortcoming. The more we put on Sanchez, the worse our O became.

[JetsFanatic]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Nope.

No one has come forward with a list of reasons why Rex Ryan is worthy of remaining head coach of the Jets.

Posting "I want to see what he looks like when he gets rid of everyone he hand-selected" 10x in different ways is not a valid answer.

SAR I

You wouldn't understand,so why bother responding. Besides you are inconsequential outside your own mind.