I thought you needed an elite QB to win a championship? - Page 3 - Jets Insider.com Forums

SlickBri481 · 01-20-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cant wait

but you can't take away those games... and contrary to popular belief losing talent at WR, RB, and OL doesn't help to develop your young QB

It's all about relative sample size? Is a guy the player he was in a few good performances in wins and losses in the playoffs? Or is he the player who was pretty bad in 60+ games in the regular season?

detectivekimble · 01-20-2013, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdan

'The other team' also had Vernon Davis. He only had 106 yards receiving and 1 TD. Kind of a big oversight there.

Who has more receiving weapons, SF or ATL?

SAR I · 01-20-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

The two teams we saw today are built similarly to the 2010 Jets. The difference is that they have better/more experienced QB play. That's why I can't say Rex Ryan's philosophy is wrong. What the Jets need is better PLAYERS. It's really not that complicated.

Agreed, though better QB play in those AFCCG's wouldn't have translated into wins; the D didn't show up for entire halves of both games and that's where we were supposed to dominate.

Braylon Edwards, Bart Scott, and a few others aren't hanging Mark Sanchez out to dry; they know the deal. We didn't have players. Forget 'playmakers'. We didn't even have players on offense.

Give the kid some support, give him a second look, why not.

SAR I

Warfish · 01-20-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdan

I appreciate your last statement. Sanchez might improve...and I'd be thrilled to see it. Until we have a better option, he's our guy and we have to root for him to turn things around.

I think we'd all love to see a 60%+ passing, 9 INT and 2 Fumble Sanchez in 2013. It means we're probably a 10-12 win team. Just a question of if we really think thats possible for him, given his track record to-date.

And yes, he's the best option today (vs. Tebow and McEljoke). Till we aquire someone better, he's the #1. Like it or not.

cant wait · 01-20-2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

It's all about relative sample size? Is a guy the player he was in a few good performances in wins and losses in the playoffs? Or is he the player who was pretty bad in 60+ games in the regular season?

it's a team game, we replaced a pro-bowl RT with the worst tackle in the league, braylon edwards coming off a big year with plax straight out of jail, and tomlinson with a rookie 4th round pick. our linebackers have also gotten old and slow... I just hope we do the right thing and start replacing our vets with actual talented players

Winstonbiggs · 01-20-2013, 10:51 PM

You had 3 QB's play at an elite level today, Brady wasn't one of them and his team got spanked.

SlickBri481 · 01-20-2013, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cant wait

it's a team game, we replaced a pro-bowl RT with the worst tackle in the league, braylon edwards coming off a big year with plax straight out of jail, and tomlinson with a rookie 4th round pick. our linebackers have also gotten old and slow... I just hope we do the right thing and start replacing our vets with actual talented players

It's a team game, but a QB that completes a high percentage and consistently makes good plays will give you a better chance to win week in and week out. Sanchez does not do that.

detectivekimble · 01-20-2013, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cant wait

it's a team game, we replaced a pro-bowl RT with the worst tackle in the league, braylon edwards coming off a big year with plax straight out of jail, and tomlinson with a rookie 4th round pick. our linebackers have also gotten old and slow... I just hope we do the right thing and start replacing our vets with actual talented players

And this pretty much describes the destruction of the NY Jets in one post.

cant wait · 01-20-2013, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

It's a team game, but a QB that completes a high percentage and consistently makes good plays will give you a better chance to win week in and week out. Sanchez does not do that.

agreed but you still need guys to throw the ball to. who on the jets current roster is going to make that big play?

Dunnie · 01-20-2013, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cant wait

flacco's performance this playoff run reminds me of a young mark sanchez

Lol ... Mark never had a game this good.

LadainianIMnotDONE · 01-20-2013, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio State NY Jets fan

Flacco was 21 of 36 for 240 yards with 3 TD's and 0 interceptions

not sure what the QB rating is but stats are above average in the NFL

Eli had an elite year last year, Rodgers the year before, Bries before that, Big Ben played elite in the superbowl ... (EXTRA CLUTCH)

dude Flacco BALLED today and Kapernick literaly had one of the greatest playoff games of all time last week and played ridiculously well today ...

SlickBri481 · 01-20-2013, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cant wait

agreed but you still need guys to throw the ball to. who on the jets current roster is going to make that big play?

If it was one year, I might let it go. But Sanchez even in years he had very good receiving options still performed at a lower tier level. He's a bust. It is what it is, no one is happy about it, but we have a chance to get the next great QB and move on, and we should take it

SlickBri481 · 01-20-2013, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadainianIMnotDONE

Eli had an elite year last year, Rodgers the year before, Bries before that, Big Ben played elite in the superbowl ... (EXTRA CLUTCH)

dude Flacco BALLED today and Kapernick literaly had one of the greatest playoff games of all time last week and played ridiculously well today ...

Flacco has played well but gotten a lot of support. How confident are his throws if his D doesn't force the Pats into a weak 13 point half after 200+ yards? Boldin made great plays on jump balls. He was better than the Pats corners.

Kaep is a little bit different because the Falcons were terrified of him today. They ran read option about 12 times and he never kept it but it was a huge run every time because they were so scared he would keep it

jetsfreak · 01-20-2013, 11:17 PM

The use of the word ELITE is overrated.....it's proven that if a team has balance and a QB thats not going to screw up then they have a chance...Flaco had a fantastic game but his overall season was nothing to get excited about....the most important factor was his LACK of mistakes....unlike some others QB's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

No he's not. He had, what, 18 TD passes this year? Elite my rear end. When a QB is put in favorable situations in the playoffs, he can succeed. Just ask Sanchez

JamesR · 01-21-2013, 02:59 PM

I think this weekend proves two things :

1 - there is no single set formula to get to the Superbowl. Elite QB, play maker WR's / RB's / TE's, shut down D ... you could even have all of these and still not make it. There's no need to follow a model you don't believe in just because it works elsewhere.

2 - getting to the Superbowl is a mighty achievement in itself. Even getting close is a major achievement, and one that teams should be proud of and build on.

It may not be the "best" teams that make it, but it's the team that plays the best. Both Balt and SF fell one game short last year, but both were good enough to take that next step and get there this year.

Both teams made big decisions during the year - Balt changed OC, SF changed QB - and made it to the dance. How many teams stuck with the status quo out of fear of making a change and missed out?

PMarsico9 · 01-21-2013, 03:04 PM

Flacco moved ahead of Ryan in my rankings, but neither of them is some hugely transcendent player like Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, or Brady. They both need substantial support at skill positions. Which both Ryan and Flacco need. If the Niners win the Super Bowl, I don't think it will matter anyway. It will stick to the formula that's been used since the Bucs won their SB with Gruden.

Kaepernick is young, but the toolset is unmatched.

Slightly slower than RG3, bigger arm than Cam Newton, but slightly smaller in size.

I can't in good faith call him elite right now, but the jury's still out.

If groomed properly by Harbaugh this kid will be one of, if not the, top QB's in the league.

Essentially take Aaron Rodgers, make him a faster runner and a bigger guy.

Kaepernick's numbers in the round 1 game were elite though. 444 total yards of offense with 4 TD's is essentially ridiculous against Green Bay.

BRONX JET · 01-21-2013, 03:08 PM

The elite thing gets dumb. As soon as a new QB wins the thing they call him elite. Alex smith could've won it last yr. especially if they did not drop 2 easy picks in the NFCCG. He would've been elite.

Dreamers · 01-21-2013, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

Joe Flacco just beat Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Of those three, who would you say is elite? As important as the QB is, it's still a team game. The point is, you don't need an "elite" QB to win it all. Eli Manning won it last year and Joe Flacco may win it this year. Eli Manning couldn't even get his team into the ****ing playoffs this year and has three one-and-dones on his record.

Dont forget Luck.

tfine350z · 01-21-2013, 03:26 PM

No. Whatever team wins the Super Bowl this year that's what we need...and then whatever team wins the Super Bowl the following year that's what we need....and so on and so on....For example say a team wins a Super Bowl by playing rugby style football people would say we need to mimic that...

Bottom line: There a different ways to win in this league...

PMarsico9 · 01-21-2013, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfine350z

Bottom line: There a different ways to win in this league...

Not really. Get a QB or GTFO.

There's a minimum level involved as well. You can win a title with Brad Johnson/Joe Flacco surrounded by studs.

You cannot win a title with Mark Sanchez.

01-21-2013, 03:04 PM	#56
PMarsico9 This pit has no bottom All League Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,853	Flacco moved ahead of Ryan in my rankings, but neither of them is some hugely transcendent player like Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, or Brady. They both need substantial support at skill positions. Which both Ryan and Flacco need. If the Niners win the Super Bowl, I don't think it will matter anyway. It will stick to the formula that's been used since the Bucs won their SB with Gruden. Kaepernick is young, but the toolset is unmatched. Slightly slower than RG3, bigger arm than Cam Newton, but slightly smaller in size. I can't in good faith call him elite right now, but the jury's still out. If groomed properly by Harbaugh this kid will be one of, if not the, top QB's in the league. Essentially take Aaron Rodgers, make him a faster runner and a bigger guy. Kaepernick's numbers in the round 1 game were elite though. 444 total yards of offense with 4 TD's is essentially ridiculous against Green Bay. Last edited by PMarsico9; 01-21-2013 at 03:11 PM.

01-20-2013, 10:51 PM	#46
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 13,105	You had 3 QB's play at an elite level today, Brady wasn't one of them and his team got spanked.

01-21-2013, 02:59 PM	#55
JamesR All League Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 4,833	I think this weekend proves two things : 1 - there is no single set formula to get to the Superbowl. Elite QB, play maker WR's / RB's / TE's, shut down D ... you could even have all of these and still not make it. There's no need to follow a model you don't believe in just because it works elsewhere. 2 - getting to the Superbowl is a mighty achievement in itself. Even getting close is a major achievement, and one that teams should be proud of and build on. It may not be the "best" teams that make it, but it's the team that plays the best. Both Balt and SF fell one game short last year, but both were good enough to take that next step and get there this year. Both teams made big decisions during the year - Balt changed OC, SF changed QB - and made it to the dance. How many teams stuck with the status quo out of fear of making a change and missed out?

01-21-2013, 03:08 PM	#57
BRONX JET Didn't hear a peep from a place called Queens All League Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Bronx, USA Posts: 3,077	The elite thing gets dumb. As soon as a new QB wins the thing they call him elite. Alex smith could've won it last yr. especially if they did not drop 2 easy picks in the NFCCG. He would've been elite.

01-21-2013, 03:26 PM	#59
tfine350z looking for a new avatar Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,123	No. Whatever team wins the Super Bowl this year that's what we need...and then whatever team wins the Super Bowl the following year that's what we need....and so on and so on....For example say a team wins a Super Bowl by playing rugby style football people would say we need to mimic that... Bottom line: There a different ways to win in this league...