Spygate

[RussianGreen]

Originally Posted by PMarsico9

If you cheat and get caught cheating and cheat in a manner that could possibly even affect the outcome of games or is even suspected of doing so, I'd say a million yard penalty is too low man.

As I said before: Goodell did go easy on the Pats.

Gregg Williams got Pete-Rose'd for what most real football fans will acknowledge was a stupid motivational ploy. It had zero impact on games.

Listening to Brett Favre's testimonials on how "the Saints were definitely trying to hurt me," is laughable.

Check what they do in soccer for cheating.
Pats should be striped of all titles and relegated to CFL for 3 years.

[AFCEastFan]

Originally Posted by PMarsico9

If you cheat and get caught cheating and cheat in a manner that could possibly even affect the outcome of games or is even suspected of doing so, I'd say a million yard penalty is too low man.

As I said before: Goodell did go easy on the Pats.

Gregg Williams got Pete-Rose'd for what most real football fans will acknowledge was a stupid motivational ploy. It had zero impact on games.

Listening to Brett Favre's testimonials on how "the Saints were definitely trying to hurt me," is laughable.

So are you also outraged by Denver and SF's salary cap violations? Tagliabue docked the Broncos a 3rd round pick for basically paying TD and Elway under the table so that they could keep both stars during their SB runs. SF also received a slap on the wrist for salary cap violations.

I think salary cap violations are far worse and far more disruptive of the competitive balance than videotaping signals in public view. David Stern docked the T'Wolves FIVE first round picks for similar violations. Tagliabue makes Goodell look like the freaking Queen of Hearts by comparison.

[PMarsico9]

Originally Posted by AFCEastFan

So are you also outraged by Denver and SF's salary cap violations? Tagliabue docked the Broncos a 3rd round pick for basically paying TD and Elway under the table so that they could keep both stars during their SB runs. SF also received a slap on the wrist for salary cap violations.

I think salary cap violations are far worse and far more disruptive of the competitive balance than videotaping signals in public view. David Stern docked the T'Wolves FIVE first round picks for similar violations. Tagliabue makes Goodell look like the freaking Queen of Hearts by comparison.

I can't dispute that. How the league lets this occur is beyond logic.

I knew about SF but not Denver. I think the Niners paid a pretty steep price though, I believe cap penalties incurred by DeBartolo had that franchise essentially in ruin for the greater part of a decade.

[RussianGreen]

Originally Posted by AFCEastFan

So are you also outraged by Denver and SF's salary cap violations? Tagliabue docked the Broncos a 3rd round pick for basically paying TD and Elway under the table so that they could keep both stars during their SB runs. SF also received a slap on the wrist for salary cap violations.

I think salary cap violations are far worse and far more disruptive of the competitive balance than videotaping signals in public view. David Stern docked the T'Wolves FIVE first round picks for similar violations. Tagliabue makes Goodell look like the freaking Queen of Hearts by comparison.

That's funny. Team, which fedexes cash to his coach b!tches from headquarters surely never paid anyone under the table.

[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by AFCEastFan

Wow. Insightful.

So by your analysis, the penalty for videotaping signals that are on public display must be the equivalent of a million yard penalty or something. Thanks for clearing that up.

Really the only thing you're bringing to this conversation is total avoidance.

One would say that the real lack of insight lies in the person would openly agrees that Belichick is a scum bag of the highest order, yet still grants him the full benefit of the doubt when it comes to the overwhelming body of evidence that he benefitted from proven cheating.

[jetssjumets]

Originally Posted by fnordcircle

Explain to me how the Patriots are better on offense now that they can no longer tape defensive signals.

Explain to me how the Patriots have been to 4 AFCCGs and 2 SBs in the years that follow Spygate.

Then I'll believe that Spygate is more important than the fact that the Patriots won when they had a great defense and now they don't. Which is the real reason they're struggling.

Don't be a moron. Explain to us why the evidence was quickly destroyed by Goodell without any independent observer reviewing the facts? Keep in mind Congress, which grants the NFL antitrust immunity, asked questions and wanted to hold a hearing to examine the facts. Just as Congress did with MLB and the Olympics on the issue of steroid usage. Unfortunately, regarding Spygate, we did not get that opportunity due to Goodell. Why? IMO, no way the Commissioner could allow the integrity of the game to come into question and NE's 3 SB wins questioned. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

[Sanchez 3:16]

Patriots won 3 Superbowl's dudes, give it up.

You think any player, coach, or fan thinks that they are tainted? The hard work put in by the team, the joy brought to the fans?

The longer we keep trying to discredit the Patriots for dominating a decade plus, the more pathetic we all look.

[AFCEastFan]

Originally Posted by JetPotato

Really the only thing you're bringing to this conversation is total avoidance.

One would say that the real lack of insight lies in the person would openly agrees that Belichick is a scum bag of the highest order, yet still grants him the full benefit of the doubt when it comes to the overwhelming body of evidence that he benefitted from proven cheating.

There is no evidence that he gained any benefit other than stealing signals in a more efficient manner than if he had stolen signals in a manner permitted by the rules. BB is a scumbag, but there is no evidence (speculation aside) that he is bugging private areas, videotaping closed-door practices, stealing playbooks, etc.

I would feel much differently about all this if stealing signals were illegal. But it's not, so all we're talking about are the differences between using a video camera and, say, the naked eye or a Polaroid camera.

[JoeJam Football]

Originally Posted by jetssjumets

Don't be a moron. Explain to us why the evidence was quickly destroyed by Goodell without any independent observer reviewing the facts? Keep in mind Congress, which grants the NFL antitrust immunity, asked questions and wanted to hold a hearing to examine the facts. Just as Congress did with MLB and the Olympics on the issue of steroid usage. Unfortunately, regarding Spygate, we did not get that opportunity due to Goodell. Why? IMO, no way the Commissioner could allow the integrity of the game to come into question and NE's 3 SB wins questioned. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

Good post

If spy gate was something small and meaningless Goodell would of put all of the evidence on display for all to see buy he didn't. What does that tell you?

[rammagen]

for the pats fans defending cheating not here not not now not ever the guy was cheating plan and simple. what is cheating doing something in violation of the rules to gain a competitive advantage.
Simple I don't care what you say or think about salary cap rule violation ect what ever your team was caught cheating....
Goodell sucks for not going hard enough on them. The only reason the supreme court did not slap the nfl was because it was deemed as an entertainment product

[GuidoYaztremski]

Originally Posted by jetssjumets

Don't be a moron. Explain to us why the evidence was quickly destroyed by Goodell without any independent observer reviewing the facts? Keep in mind Congress, which grants the NFL antitrust immunity, asked questions and wanted to hold a hearing to examine the facts. Just as Congress did with MLB and the Olympics on the issue of steroid usage. Unfortunately, regarding Spygate, we did not get that opportunity due to Goodell. Why? IMO, no way the Commissioner could allow the integrity of the game to come into question and NE's 3 SB wins questioned. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

There you go again. It wasn't "Congress" that asked any questions, it was the corrupt Sen. Arlen Specter who was a Steelers fan and whose largest contributor happened to be Comcast who was, at the time, embroiled with a huge battle with the NFL Network. Glasers copies of the tapes were never destroyed btw.

But let's hear it "genius" pretend lawyer. What do THINK was on the tapes that was so egregious that they needed to be destroyed?


And I LMFAO at the rubes who claim losing a first round pick was a small slap on the wrist. Forget the $$$ fines, they could never be high enough to truly punish a billionaire. How can you say a first rounder isn't a HUGE fine for doing something that was perfectly legal to do, just doing it in an area that was forbidden.

[jetssjumets]

Originally Posted by Sanchez 3:16

Patriots won 3 Superbowl's dudes, give it up.

You think any player, coach, or fan thinks that they are tainted? The hard work put in by the team, the joy brought to the fans?

The longer we keep trying to discredit the Patriots for dominating a decade plus, the more pathetic we all look.

What are you talking about? Several players from other teams have mentioned Spygate and NE not winning anything since. Only fans of NE think their team's SB trophies are not tainted. Reasonable people can disagree but that supposed dynasty can't win the trophy without cheating. Facts are facts.

Originally Posted by JoeJam Football

Good post

If spy gate was something small and meaningless Goodell would of put all of the evidence on display for all to see buy he didn't. What does that tell you?

Exactly. If any of us did what Goodell did it would be obstruction of justice. Destroying the evidence before any objective examination/review tells you all you need to know. To say otherwise is just foolish.

[rep]

Originally Posted by AFCEastFan

There is no evidence that he gained any benefit other than stealing signals in a more efficient manner than if he had stolen signals in a manner permitted by the rules. BB is a scumbag, but there is no evidence (speculation aside) that he is bugging private areas, videotaping closed-door practices, stealing playbooks, etc.

I would feel much differently about all this if stealing signals were illegal. But it's not, so all we're talking about are the differences between using a video camera and, say, the naked eye or a Polaroid camera.

There is substantial evidence actually. Belichick continued to do it. That is all of the evidence that anyone with the capability to understand logic needs. One of the smartest coaches of all time continued to do something that he knew had the potential to absolutely destroy his reputation and everything that he had accomplished in his life. That is actually more telling than if we had actually seen the tapes. By continuing to do it, Belichick essentially admitted that the advantage he gained from it was worth ruining everything he had worked for in his life. Does that sound like some minor advantage to you? Seriously?

[GuidoYaztremski]

Originally Posted by jetssjumets

What are you talking about? Several players from other teams have mentioned Spygate and NE not winning anything since. Only fans of NE think their team's SB trophies are not tainted. Reasonable people can disagree but that supposed dynasty can't win the trophy without cheating. Facts are facts.



Exactly. If any of us did what Goodell did it would be obstruction of justice. Destroying the evidence before any objective examination/review tells you all you need to know. To say otherwise is just foolish.

LOL at you thinking you are "reasonable people".

Just days after your team finally gets a new GM and new OC and the entire first page here is about yesterday's game. What does it say that fans of a 6-10 team's biggest accomplishment is watching their rival lose the AFCCG. Actually, back-to-back AFCCGs, one win and one loss...hmmmm......DYNASTY!

[jetssjumets]

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

There you go again. It wasn't "Congress" that asked any questions, it was the corrupt Sen. Arlen Specter who was a Steelers fan and whose largest contributor happened to be Comcast who was, at the time, embroiled with a huge battle with the NFL Network. Glasers copies of the tapes were never destroyed btw.

But let's hear it "genius" pretend lawyer. What do THINK was on the tapes that was so egregious that they needed to be destroyed?


And I LMFAO at the rubes who claim losing a first round pick was a small slap on the wrist. Forget the $$$ fines, they could never be high enough to truly punish a billionaire. How can you say a first rounder isn't a HUGE fine for doing something that was perfectly legal to do, just doing it in an area that was forbidden.

Well, the trolling ahole appears. How was your MLK holiday?

As I posted previously, you are a lair. Former Sen. Specter was never accused of any wrongdoing. I posted the Senate ethics committee website to refute your lies. It clearly showed no action against Sen. Specter. Nice try.

As for his ties with Comcast, I am not going to get into this circular discussion with you because you are a moron. Like I previously posted, of course he will look at Comcast's interest as the Senator from the state where the company is HQ. No different than a Sen from CA defending Hollywood or Silicon Valley; NC and tobacco; Texas and Oil or NY and Wall Street. You can't be that stupid.....well after second thoughts, maybe you are.

No, GFY troll. I am not interested in what you have to say. In fact, why don;t you do us a favor and GTFO.

[jetssjumets]

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

LOL at you thinking you are "reasonable people".

Just days after your team finally gets a new GM and new OC and the entire first page here is about yesterday's game. What does it say that fans of a 6-10 team's biggest accomplishment is watching their rival lose the AFCCG. Actually, back-to-back AFCCGs, one win and one loss...hmmmm......DYNASTY!

I agree. Dynasty of cheaters. Hope you enjoyed another big loss yesterday. Funny when you don't cheat the true Patriots show up and lose each and every time. LMAO.

[Dcat]

I would really like to understand Goodell's reasoning behind his irreversible decision to destroy the evidence. I can't for the life of me think of one logical reason for doing so except to cover up something that he thought might be detrimental to the league. What that is, I have no idea and as a paying fan, we deserve to know. The decision to destroy the tapes is dubious at best. It would be foolhardy to not suspect that some form of cover-up was the driving force.

Shady business.

[stanner]

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

LOL at you thinking you are "reasonable people".

Just days after your team finally gets a new GM and new OC and the entire first page here is about yesterday's game. What does it say that fans of a 6-10 team's biggest accomplishment is watching their rival lose the AFCCG. Actually, back-to-back AFCCGs, one win and one loss...hmmmm......DYNASTY!

And, the Mings had a dynasty once, too. You don't hear them talking about it much anymore. Just in the history books.

[AFCEastFan]

Originally Posted by rep

There is substantial evidence actually. Belichick continued to do it. That is all of the evidence that anyone with the capability to understand logic needs. One of the smartest coaches of all time continued to do something that he knew had the potential to absolutely destroy his reputation and everything that he had accomplished in his life. That is actually more telling than if we had actually seen the tapes. By continuing to do it, Belichick essentially admitted that the advantage he gained from it was worth ruining everything he had worked for in his life. Does that sound like some minor advantage to you? Seriously?

I missed the part where Belichick destroyed his reputation and ruined his life. I don't think he would agree with that. Plus, FOX aired one of the tapes. It was predictably uninteresting: Sidelines, scoreboard, play. Repeat ad infinitum (plus, according to Jay Glazer who still has the tapes, gratuitous cheerleader shots).

[Mohegangreen]

Originally Posted by endgameeugenics

They get caught cheating AFTER winning 3 Super Bowls. Why would you still be cheating after youv'e already won 3 Super Bowls? And.... Why would you risk getting caught cheating IF your tactics didn't give you a significant advantage?

I wish Jet coaches during that period had wanted to win badly enough to try it themselves...Stealing signals is just as much a part of sports as throwing and catching...I have no issue with the spy gate stuff...The other teams should have been guarding their intelligence a little better...