The Current State Of The Jets

[ucrenegade]

yeah welcome back now all we need is flowtrain's analysis and we will be good.

[ARodFLKeysJetsFan]

Originally Posted by YJF

Thanks ARod. I'd say, It's good to be back but I will give it a few days.lol

LOL....Yeah buddy, I hear you.

[TheMikeIsHot]

Originally Posted by george jetfan from miami

You sound very pessimistic indeed. Woody has already made the changes that needed to be done. The dark ages of 2011 and 12 are in the past! Idzik will repair the cap and get the jets the players they need hopefully this year! A team that has Revis,Cro,Wilk,Coples,Davis,Landry,Holmes,Keller,H ill,Edwards,Mangold,Brick and decent RB's and a solid ST core seems like a team that has talent to me.

There is some talent here, I'm not arguing that. I really like a few players and think Revis, Cro and Mangold are elite for their position. Brick is a great pass-blocking LT.

Coples and Hill have the ability to be great. Mo is well on his way.

Landry and Keller are Free Agents.

"Decent" RBs are not good enough for a team that's been dedicated to running the ball. Greene is below average, and he's a FA.

There are a LOT of holes here and very little money to fill them. The combination of Rex and Tannenbaum have really done a number on this roster over the past few years.

Without a decent QB, the Jets are in for a poor season.

It's hard for me to swallow you saying the dark ages of 2011 and 2012 are in the past when the HC who is responsible for those years is still here. He deserves just as much blame as anyone else.

[LIJetsFan]

Here is an article that might illustrate my earlier point that they might be trying to fix Sanchez:

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/201...system_ho.html

IT'S ABOUT TIMING

"It was never on a clock. It’s all about the quarterback’s footwork."

From slants to skinny posts, every route in Mornhinweg’s playbook is based on a timing system with a direct correlation to the type of drop-back a quarterback takes. The drops include:

Three step, plant and throw.

Three step, hesitate and throw.

Five step, plant and throw.

Five step, hitch and throw.

Seven step, hitch and throw.

The goal is to create a quarterback-receiver relationship based more on feel and rhythm. In the past, for example, Mark Sanchez was put on a countdown clock and buzzer in order to get plays off in a certain time. This system would ensure the wideout is working off of a different, more natural indicator to run the route.

"The series of quarterback-related drills (he does with footwork), I think, are outstanding," Higgins said. "That’s the first thing I did when I arrived in Detroit. Marty pulled me in a room and we went through them all meticulously. Every drill had a name and a goal."

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE

"There’s going to be a lot of slants, a lot of out routes and a lot of skinny posts."

Because of the timed routes, Higgins said the offense thrives on completion percentage, despite Mornhinweg working with quarterbacks not known for hitting on a high percentage of their passes. From 2010-2012, under Mornhinweg, Eagles QB Michael Vick had a completion rate of 60.2 percent after having a career 53.8 percentage in Atlanta.

Sanchez has a 55.1 rate for his career.

[YJF]

Originally Posted by george jetfan from miami

You sound very pessimistic indeed. Woody has already made the changes that needed to be done. The dark ages of 2011 and 12 are in the past! Idzik will repair the cap and get the jets the players they need hopefully this year! A team that has Revis,Cro,Wilk,Coples,Davis,Landry,Holmes,Keller,H ill,Edwards,Mangold,Brick and decent RB's and a solid ST core seems like a team that has talent to me.

I love positivity but sometimes fans go over the edge with it. Same thing on the other side. Where negativity replaces objectivity.

Your post is geared towards the ultra positive side. You can't say the losing ways of 2011 and 2012 are in the past. That doesn't change until the team starts winning. You are also posting like Woody has already fixed the problems.

You list a lot of very good players as reasons why the Jets will be fine. Any fan of any team in the NFL can do that. I can take the Jaguars and do what you just did with good players.

A team that has Maurice Jones Drew, Justin Blackmon, Brad Meester, Eugene Monroe, Paul Posluszny, Tyson Alaalu, Dwight Lowery, Dawan Landry, Derek Cox, Josh Scobee, Cecil Shorts, Terence Knighton and decent guards and a solid ST core seems like a team that has talent to me.

[doggin94it]

Originally Posted by shuler82

Welcome back YJF.

If I was Woody, I wouldn't be judging Rex on W/L in 2013.. He stays if he keeps the locker room, the defense continues to perform, and he stays out of the offense, allowing the OC to open things up, then you keep Rex... assuming Idzik can work with him.

This. Those things happen, and this team has real hope for another run in 2014 and beyond, when the bad contracts are off the books and more talent has been brought in.

[JetPotato]

What a refreshingly good thread.

Positive contributions all around. Welcome back, YJF.

[YJF]

Originally Posted by JetPotato

What a refreshingly good thread.

Positive contributions all around. Welcome back, YJF.

Thanks. It's good to see actual debate and discussion.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by YJF

Thanks. It's good to see actual debate and discussion.

I may bring out the worst in you but you bring out the best on the board..

[RMJK]

Now all we need is a reply from Flowtrain to answer YJF's Post to bring back old times.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by YJF

PERCEPTION VS REALITY

The New York Jets are widely believed to be a losing franchise. As of January 12th 2013, It's been 44 years since the Jets have won a superbowl. There have been many ups and a lot more downs since that ground breaking and league changing championship in 1969. Throughout the 70's and much of the 80's, The Jets became an irrelevant franchise. Very few winning seasons or playoff seasons over the course of two decades. There were slight hiccups along the way where the Jets made an impact and went on runs towards a championship(1982) but there was a lot more losing than winning in those two decades.

The 90's saw the Jets start off somewhat promising only to fall badly and become a laughingstock by the time 1996 finished. It wasn't until Bill Parcells arrived in 1997, That the Jets would change course and change their culture and become a contender. Since 1997, The Jets have been a respectable and contending franchise. They won their first division title since the merger in 1970 and from 1998 to present day, The Jets have won two division titles and have made the playoffs 7 different times and have made 3 trips to the AFC Championship Game. In the last 16 seasons, The Jets have only 4 non winning seasons. In the era of parody, that measures up pretty well against the other 31 NFL franchises. The Jets transformed from being a laughing stock and irrelevant franchise to being relevant and a legitimate contender. The local and national media would have you believe otherwise but the Jets have been a respectable franchise since 1997.

BACK TO THE DARK AGES

This leads me to where I feel this franchise is now headed or currently is. It looks like the Jets have officially reverted back to their losing ways prior to 1997. It's been a long time since the Jets franchise was considered and expected to be awful and that's where they currently stand. The late season collapse of 2011 and the ugliness of 2012 have combined to set this franchise back and downward. It's amazing how far down the team has gone after two magical runs near the mountain top just two years ago. There are a lot of people to blame for the downfall. Poor leadership and team awareness by Rex Ryan. Poor management by Mike Tannenbaum and poor ownership and guidance by Woody Johnson. The run is over. You can not recapture the vibe and aura that the franchise had.

MOVING FORWARD

It's hard to gauge what direction the Jets are currently in. Are they retooling or rebuilding? The model for rebuilding is in place, A young roster with a lot of departing veterans. You have uncertainty at key spots like QB and a new leader of football operations in John Idzik. At the same time, The Jets have the same football leader in place in Rex Ryan, the same quality defensive system and a whole new accomplished offensive staff. Rex is coaching for his life in 2013. If the Jets do not have a winning season or make the playoffs. He is gone. He knows it and the entire organization knows it. Rather than begin a complete organizational reset. Woody Johnson has decided to try and take another shot. The problem is that The Jets are not constructed properly to be a legitimate contender. They do not and will not have the neccessary cap room to improve their talent base. They don't have the current talent base to be a legitimate contender. The team is stuck in neutral. If 2013 goes as projected, The Jets will have to reset the entire organization from the coaching staff to the scouting department a year from now. The only person that will remain is John Idzik. Instead of using 2013 to build for 2014. The Jets are putting off the rebuild for another year in the hopes of getting back to where they were. That ship has sailed. Woody failed to realize that or doesn't want to face that reality. By attempting this in 2013, The Jets are pretty much setting themselves up for potentially two more losing seasons in 2013 and 2014. Even if the organization gets things on track, They may not contend until 2015.

There is always a fine line between realistic and pessimistic. So I know that this thread can be seen in both lights. Probably leaning more towards the pessimistic side. There is something about the way 2012 ended that made me feel like we are back to the way things were before 1997. I hope that I am wrong.

Welcome back YJF! A solid post for sure. That said there are scenarios in which the Jets can be successful next season. Here me out for a second then I'd love some feedback.

There is this thought process that 2013 is a throwaway year for a number of reasons. Mainly No QB and no cap space. Now picture the following trade. Cromartie for a 3rd rounder. The trade of Cro adds another 8Million to the Cap for 2013. Now I think he is worth a 2nd rounder but I am trying to be reasonable. Now we trade for Matt Flynn (3rd or 4th rounder, his cap number is lower than Cro's) who seems to be an ideal candidate to run MM's west coast offense. We still draft Nassib or EJ or some young gun QB as a backup plan.

Now we know that our Defense is already a solid top 10 group. We use the balance of the draft and available cap to fill in holes at RB,S,OLB,TE and G. Wilson steps in as CB2, Demario steps in at ILB. I would bring back Pace at OLB for 1.5Million or so. I'd also retain Braylon at 1Million or so to fill out the WR corps. I would use the balance of the Cro savings to try and retain Landry in a cap friendly medium term 3 year deal.

In this realistic scenario we have upside with Flynn who has looked good in limited action. If that doesn't work out we have the Rookie QB as a backup plan. This gives us two chances to field a competitive team. Essentially we would be mimicking the moves made by Seattle last year which worked out well for them. If they all bust we are back to square 1 but at least going in to a season there would be hope. Flynn by default is better than Sanchez because how could anyone be any worse. We don't know for sure but its possible the guy is actually good.

[ucrenegade]

Originally Posted by RMJK

Now all we need is a reply from Flowtrain to answer YJF's Post to bring back old times.

beat ya.........

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

Welcome back YJF! A solid post for sure. That said there are scenarios in which the Jets can be successful next season. Here me out for a second then I'd love some feedback.

There is this thought process that 2013 is a throwaway year for a number of reasons. Mainly No QB and no cap space. Now picture the following trade. Cromartie for a 3rd rounder. The trade of Cro adds another 8Million to the Cap for 2013. Now I think he is worth a 2nd rounder but I am trying to be reasonable. Now we trade for Matt Flynn (3rd or 4th rounder, his cap number is lower than Cro's) who seems to be an ideal candidate to run MM's west coast offense. We still draft Nassib or EJ or some young gun QB as a backup plan.

Now we know that our Defense is already a solid top 10 group. We use the balance of the draft and available cap to fill in holes at RB,S,OLB,TE and G. Wilson steps in as CB2, Demario steps in at ILB. I would bring back Pace at OLB for 1.5Million or so. I'd also retain Braylon at 1Million or so to fill out the WR corps. I would use the balance of the Cro savings to try and retain Landry in a cap friendly medium term 3 year deal.

In this realistic scenario we have upside with Flynn who has looked good in limited action. If that doesn't work out we have the Rookie QB as a backup plan. This gives us two chances to field a competitive team. Essentially we would be mimicking the moves made by Seattle last year which worked out well for them. If they all bust we are back to square 1 but at least going in to a season there would be hope. Flynn by default is better than Sanchez because how could anyone be any worse. We don't know for sure but its possible the guy is actually good.

See, thats the problem. There are too many folks here who believe our Defense is a Top 10 Defense. It is not. We have major holes at LB- we need 2 starting caliber/quality OLBs and a replacement for Bart Scott. Both of our starting Safeties are free agents and we have serious question marks at NT, a position that is critical in the 3-4 alignment.

Our Defense has not been that good for the last 3 years. They dont dominate the game. They havent won any games for us the last two years and were blown out several times. That is not a good defense.

[ucrenegade]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

See, thats the problem. There are too many folks here who believe our Defense is a Top 10 Defense. It is not. We have major holes at LB- we need 2 starting caliber/quality OLBs and a replacement for Bart Scott. Both of our starting Safeties are free agents and we have serious question marks at NT, a position that is critical in the 3-4 alignment.

Our Defense has not been that good for the last 3 years. They dont dominate the game. They havent won any games for us the last two years and were blown out several times. That is not a good defense.

if we had any offense our defense kept us in at least 4 games i can think of that we should have won that is easily 11-12 wins and a play-off spot which i would say is top 10 worthy.

i will say this about rex he is a lousy hc but as far as defense for who he has to work with he gets the most he can.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

See, thats the problem. There are too many folks here who believe our Defense is a Top 10 Defense. It is not. We have major holes at LB- we need 2 starting caliber/quality OLBs and a replacement for Bart Scott. Both of our starting Safeties are free agents and we have serious question marks at NT, a position that is critical in the 3-4 alignment.

Our Defense has not been that good for the last 3 years. They dont dominate the game. They havent won any games for us the last two years and were blown out several times.

With the offense we are putting out on the field its a major +1 for this defense to have remained as solid as they have statistically. Every Fantasy Football enthusiast knows to bench the WR's that are facing the Jets D. Our offense specializes in 3 and outs as well as turnovers in opponent territory.

At ILB Demario is the starter in waiting and takes over Scotts position. OLB gets addressed in the draft. I can see bringing back Pace at a lower salary as well. I like Ellis at NT and MO + Couples are a great tandem on the line. My plan calls for retaining Landry at S as well. The defense hasn't been dominating but they have been solid. The proof is in the fact that with arguably the worst offense in the NFL we still have been an average team in terms of wins and a top 10 D statistically.

[ucrenegade]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

With the offense we are putting out on the field its a major +1 for this defense to have remained as solid as they have statistically. Every Fantasy Football enthusiast knows to bench the WR's that are facing the Jets D. Our offense specializes in 3 and outs as well as turnovers in opponent territory.

At ILB Demario is the starter in waiting and takes over Scotts position. OLB gets addressed in the draft. I can see bringing back Pace at a lower salary as well. I like Ellis at NT and MO + Couples are a great tandem on the line. My plan calls for retaining Landry at S as well. The defense hasn't been dominating but they have been solid. The proof is in the fact that with arguably the worst offense in the NFL we still have been an average team in terms of wins and a top 10 D statistically.

unless you have victor cruz on your team like i did this year........

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by ucrenegade

unless you have victor cruz on your team like i did this year........

He wasn't facing Revis in that game. When Revis is in there you try and bench the opposing #1 WR. Cruz was the #2 for the Giants with Nicks claiming the top spot. This is part of the reason my plan calls for trading Cro. He was solid for us last season but we have too much money tied up in the CB spot. I'd bring back Revis long term and let Cro go when his trade value is highest. Wilson can step up as the #2. Put Trufant in the slot and we'd be ok.

[ucrenegade]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

He wasn't facing Revis in that game. When Revis is in there you try and bench the opposing #1 WR. Cruz was the #2 for the Giants with Nicks claiming the top spot. This is part of the reason my plan calls for trading Cro. He was solid for us last season but we have too much money tied up in the CB spot. I'd bring back Revis long term and let Cro go when his trade value is highest. Wilson can step up as the #2. Put Trufant in the slot and we'd be ok.

i would do it the other way myself trade revis and his greedy ass he won't take a long-term contract unless he is getting 200 m.

then i would promote cro to one with a nice raise and years for stability and draft another cb in the third to compete with wilson for 2 and nickel

[george jetfan from miami]

Originally Posted by YJF

I love positivity but sometimes fans go over the edge with it. Same thing on the other side. Where negativity replaces objectivity.

Your post is geared towards the ultra positive side. You can't say the losing ways of 2011 and 2012 are in the past. That doesn't change until the team starts winning. You are also posting like Woody has already fixed the problems.

You list a lot of very good players as reasons why the Jets will be fine. Any fan of any team in the NFL can do that. I can take the Jaguars and do what you just did with good players.

A team that has Maurice Jones Drew, Justin Blackmon, Brad Meester, Eugene Monroe, Paul Posluszny, Tyson Alaalu, Dwight Lowery, Dawan Landry, Derek Cox, Josh Scobee, Cecil Shorts, Terence Knighton and decent guards and a solid ST core seems like a team that has talent to me.

Yes YJF true, I realize I sound ultra positive and that's because I think the main problem of this team was offense and the top two positions that can make an offense bad IMO for any team is QB and OC which should both be changed next year. That plus getting Revis and Holmes back and getting a new GM with a nice portfolio should improve this team. I do think if the jets don't have a winning season in 13 that a coaching change could occur but I would bet on a winning season over a losing season for sure if Sanchez is removed from being the starter. There is a big question "mark" right there.

If I had to take the top 10 or 12 players from the Jets or the pats right now to carry my team forward I would def take those jets players over the top ten pats players without Brady of course. My main point is that we need to bench Sanchez and find someone better.

[Jungle Shift Jet]

More self-pitying fodder for SOJFs....no one here knows the exact formula of how a championship team is "constructed" or not..or how "close" the Jets are...injuries, luck in the draft and other variables in a single elimination playoff format with 32 teams make the whole shebang a crap shoot...can't miss prospects bust and perennial failures and underachievers in new environments make the SB