Yup, This Is A Cap Guy And Rex Is Running The Show

[Untouchable]

SAR = An even whinier Woody Allen

"Oh, oh this is terrrrrible"

[Dcat]

Originally Posted by SMC

So despite your own posted quotes which utterly contradicted your assessment, you concluded that Idzik is only a cap guy and Rex is running the show from "demeanor"?

LOL

[Jetsfan95]

Originally Posted by SAR I

"Making the final decisions, when I say being collaborative, that's genuine, so my role is to develop consensus and provide direction. So that when we make decisions they are Jet decisions. I may hand in the card, but we make the decisions together. As far as my background, I have been around players since I was knee-high, I have had a myriad of different perspectives which I can lend to the Jets."

"I am the consensus builder. It's a collaborative effort."

It's the same old story with Tannenbaum's old staff and Rex Ryan too. Might as well have kept Mike, at least he's been working on player personnel for the past 6 years.

SAR I

SAR, that's the same collaborative effort that Seattle used which changed them from a 7 win team to a legit Super Bowl contender in the future. Idzik, Carroll and GM John Schneider all worked together and no one individual had superiority when it came to player decisions. Just because he's not an autocratic doosh doesn't mean that he's a sniveling yes-man. A middle ground exists and this path is a good one IMO

[Mainejet]

DUMP

[Dcat]

Originally Posted by SAR I

No, they don't. If you cut through the expected fluff, you see nuggets of truth and an early look at his management style.

When he was asked about his own brand of being a GM, he described a great operations manager to a tee. When he was asked for opinions on players like the QB and the CB, he said he needed time to talk to everyone, form consensus, build a spreadsheet. The "Play Like A Jet" reference? Straight off the decals on the stairway into Florham Park.

Ask me in two years what I think of him and I'll have a really good answer. But, today, first impressions, I don't see how this dispels what we've been reading for the past week- he's an outstanding operations manager with some personnel experience eleven years ago.

Nothing wrong with that. It's what it is. Not sure why that's so shocking, not sure why so many other posters have such violent reaction.

SAR I

because you have crossed the line into irrationality of late?

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by rmeyer52

SAR if I were you I would look for another team that I can be positive about. What you heard was so filtered by your bias that it's hard to read anything you post now. Hey I know let's just skip the 2013 season and settle on 8-8 right now

It'll be 6-10 but who's counting.

I'm allowed to be a diehard fan who is stuck with an owner and a head coach he doesn't like and voice an opinion on a GM who doesn't appear to be what we need right now. That's within my right to say and it's within your right to criticize.

You cannot, however, question my loyalty to the team. "Loyalty" to the Jets does not mean taking every bad play, bad player, bad coach, and bad decision and liking it. We're allowed to talk back.

And, seriously, if you can look at the last two years of Jets performance both on the field and off and not scratch your head a little, wow, it's not me who should consider another team, chief.

SAR I

[SMC]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Don't think for me, please. You're not good at it.

I remember two Jets press conferences that made an impression on me.

Bill Parcells.
Rex Ryan.

Both came in, like football warriors, and said what needed to be said and let you know as a fan that this guy knew what he wanted to do. Whether right or wrong in retrospect, they had the pulpit, they had the opportunity, they set the course from Day 1.

And I think John Idzik just did the same thing.

But because he didn't say something emotional that they can relate to like "Get off the bus!" or "I'm not here to kiss the ring!" the typical Jets fan doesn't realize that by saying "We're going to build consensus and do everything in a group with a spreadsheet and live for 'we' not 'me'!" is precisely what he's going to do.

You do realize that both Parcells and Rex's introductory press conferences were as HCs right?

Parcells got front office final decision, but he was first and foremost the HC.

Show me one GM in an introductory press conference do the "emotional" thing. Just one. Ozzie didn't do it and never has since. Caldwell, everyone's top GM candidate, didn't do it for the Jags in his presser.

I'm not going to criticize you or call you names. But it is patently obvious that there is a great disconnect between what happened at the press conference (and you quoted) and your conclusions now.

Nothing that happened supports anything you're saying.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Dcat

because you have crossed the line into irrationality of late?

I'm sorry if I disappoint you Dave, but the last month has seen:

1. Another 0-3 finish.
2. A disappointing 6-10 season.
3. The realization that our O and D are done.
4. The firing of our GM.
5. The exodus of our coaching staff.
6. An owner who set us up for the last GM available.
7. The retention of a HC that is responsible for 90% of our ills.
8. A GM that does not appear to be a player expert.
9. The retention of the personnel department that ruined our roster.

I'm not a Mets fan, so I don't know how to handle this type of disaster so routinely. Not sure where you read that the statute of limitations of disappointment and concern shall last no longer than 30 days before one must naively and wholeheartedly throw oneself into the new season, move onto 2013 with vigor.

It took 15 years to build the Jets; it took 30 days to destroy them. Let some of us have a few months, okay?

SAR I

[revischrist]

Originally Posted by SAR I

It'll be 6-10 but who's counting.

I'm allowed to be a diehard fan who is stuck with an owner and a head coach he doesn't like and voice an opinion on a GM who doesn't appear to be what we need right now. That's within my right to say and it's within your right to criticize.

You cannot, however, question my loyalty to the team. "Loyalty" to the Jets does not mean taking every bad play, bad player, bad coach, and bad decision and liking it. We're allowed to talk back.

And, seriously, if you can look at the last two years of Jets performance both on the field and off and not scratch your head a little, wow, it's not me who should consider another team, chief.

SAR I

I don't think any of us question your loyalty as a fan, we just wish that you hadn't chosen the Jets as your team. No offense.

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by SAR I

It's a losing battle today here in Unicorns & Rainbows Land, but just trust me, we hired a great guy to run operations at Whole Foods, not a player personnel guy. Simple as that. Not sure why all the commotion when his bio states that he's been doing this for the past 11 years instead of picking players. This isn't rocket science.

SAR I

Isn't it possible that he knows a thing or two about operations and ALSO knows a thing or two about football?

This may be silly or arbitrary, but a HC or GM ideally should have played football. Doesn't have to at the top level, doesn't have to have been NFL caliber, but he should have been in a huddle and speaking Football-ese.

Its a different language completely. Guys like Bellichek and Mangini weren't NFL players (not by a longshot), but started out playing enough football to continue their trajectory into the coaching world.

In contrast, Tanny got involved with the Saints whilst attending Tulane Law and worked on the cap/business side of the game. As far as I'm aware, he does not have any playing backgroung. He worked his way up and I have no doubt that he picked up a tremendous amount about the game on that road. And the fact that he rose the way he did, impressing everyone he worked with, is a credit to him. He got to the ultimate position in his field despite not having certain key credentials. That's pretty amazing. And, to a certain point, he was successful. Ironically, what ultimately did him in was the Sanchez extension which should have been part of his core competency.

But, I always had my doubts about whether Tanny would be able to look at raw footage and analyze the strengths and weaknesses of a player like a scout could do. I'm sure he got better at it, but, at the end of the day, he probably relied on his staff more so than most other GMs (who obviously all rely on staffs for various different decisions.)

Idzik has a lot more personnel experience than Tanny did. It seems like he made it his business to become that well rounded candidate (or at least well rounded enough) in order to put himself to compete with the Tom Gambles, the Dave Caldwells who would also be up for GM positions.

Nothing I read from the Presser dissuades me of what I've heard/read about this guy.

[Jet Fumes]

Originally Posted by SAR I

I'm really sorry. I don't want to feel this way.

I've been an executive for 25+ years and John Idzik just rattled off every Business 101 cliche I've ever heard at every national conference in one 25 minute presser.

And if looking at him and listening to him talk is any indication, he's a softie, a nice guy, someone who runs a business in a certain way and that he thinks a smooth operation will get us wins.

And the "its a process" and "Play Like a Jet", ugh.

SAR I

Agreed that his answers were diplomatic. Just like every person in charge of any organization with any size to it. But, realistically, can you really expect that he was going to give the dam media anything to flame the presses with?

Dont be silly.

He answered much the same as our elected officials answer questions... diplomatically. If you believed he was gonna get up there and start talking about how he is the head mofo in charge, than your in dream land Sar. If you believed he was going to address team business on his first day in front of a bunch of reporters, well that just stupid for him to do.

That woulda grabbed headlines, and maybe made everyone feel good, but feeling good when your team is sitting at home watching the superbowl instead of making plans for watching your team play in the superbowl is dumb.

Frankly speaking... I hope he continues not to say sh!t and not tell us sh!t.

What he did do was jab the media with that one remark about reporters here being the most tenacious or whatever he said, and he also put them on notice saying that if you wanna talk about perceptions, go ahead. My info is readily available and if you wanna know about my skill set, b!tch ask the mofo's that I worked with. See what the fu(k they have to say!

Sar you are right... he was doing his best ambassadorial two step. But he answered like a man in charge of a business, not like a man who has to answer to the masses. Besides... tough talk dont mean sh!t when you run a team who's record has them home sitting on their couches at the end of Dec.

Lets assess after a few seasons.

[Dcat]

Originally Posted by SAR I

I'm sorry if I disappoint you Dave, but the last month has seen:

1. Another 0-3 finish.
2. A disappointing 6-10 season.
3. The realization that our O and D are done.
4. The firing of our GM.
5. The exodus of our coaching staff.
6. An owner who set us up for the last GM available.
7. The retention of a HC that is responsible for 90% of our ills.

I'm not a Mets fan, so I don't know how to handle this type of disaster so routinely. Not sure where you read that the statute of limitations of disappointment and concern shall last no longer than 30 days before one must naively and wholeheartedly throw oneself into the new season, move onto 2013 with vigor.

It took 15 years to build the Jets; it took 30 days to destroy them. Let me have a few months, okay?

SAR I

none of the above explains the complete lack of realistic expectations at what you were going to hear at this press conference. You're very quick to assign labels and piegeon hole others into categories... very un-successful-exec like. "Idzik is just a cap guy". Puhleaze. What is this? 1994 usenet naivety?

[intelligentjetsfan]

Originally Posted by SAR I

If after hearing that press conference this isn't 100% cemented as fact I don't know what is.

SAR I

Keep up the routine; I am sure you are entertaining some posters. I just hope you do not turn into the Chevy Chase of JI; begin with some great hits only to fizzle out as the act gets old.

[dmitexxi]

Originally Posted by loluchka80

SAR = francessa of JI

I concede you are correct

[EM31]

I see very few options for us at this point. The mods will need to collectively take one for the team and invite SAR to become a member of their exclusive and esteemed club. The elevation to near God-like "mod" status in these parts is known to bestow calming effects on a poster. They become more reasonable (GE&H) They become less likely to engage in repetitive and inflammatory thread starting (KIG) and generally reach a natural state of mellowness normally associated with large prescriptions from a California medical marijuana dispensary.

Mods never get into arguments and they never ever melt down.

Plus you know there are all of the rumors about the gratuitous pole smoking that takes place in the Mod lounge

Please save us

SAR for mod!

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by revischrist

I don't think any of us question your loyalty as a fan, we just wish that you hadn't chosen the Jets as your team. No offense.

Right back at you.

I don't like Jets fans who accept the tripe that are being fed to them, who drop their pants, spread wide, and exclaim "please sir, may I have another" as management demolishes the team.

There's a time for gleeful enthusiasm. This is not one of those times. We're headed for two or three consecutive losing seasons and just hired a GM that was the last one chosen and has spent the last 11 years as an operations manager on two different clubs. Some of us have a right to be upset right now without being told that we're "bad fans" as if there's some rulebook that says "thou shall not criticize the team". It's the perfect time to criticize the team because their performance on and off the field in the past two years deserves a lot of criticism.

SAR I

[Redrew]

The headline On SI.com is "JETS owner explores Revis trade."

Proof positive Icky is just another number crunching suit titled GM in name only. Sickening to think this lucky trust fund sperm cell is making football decisions.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Don't think for me, please. You're not good at it.

I remember two Jets press conferences that made an impression on me.

Bill Parcells.
Rex Ryan.

Both came in, like football warriors, and said what needed to be said and let you know as a fan that this guy knew what he wanted to do. Whether right or wrong in retrospect, they had the pulpit, they had the opportunity, they set the course from Day 1.

And I think John Idzik just did the same thing.

But because he didn't say something emotional that they can relate to like "Get off the bus!" or "I'm not here to kiss the ring!" the typical Jets fan doesn't realize that by saying "We're going to build consensus and do everything in a group with a spreadsheet and live for 'we' not 'me'!" is precisely what he's going to do.

It's a losing battle today here in Unicorns & Rainbows Land, but just trust me, we hired a great guy to run operations at Whole Foods, not a player personnel guy. Simple as that. Not sure why all the commotion when his bio states that he's been doing this for the past 11 years instead of picking players. This isn't rocket science.

SAR I

The people you mentioned were coaches who are supposed to be more animated.

Idzik is an executive.

Why dont you read what the best executive in football, Ozzie Newsome, said and poke some holes in that....oh right, you cant because it destroys every post you have made in the last 2 hours

[SyracuseJet]

You wonder why everyone thinks you're an attention whore? You made a thread about Idzik's introduction and press conference for everyone to comment on. The rest of us give our opinions and comments in that thread all morning. But that's not enough of a stage for you, you have to make your own thread (again) to give your opinion on Idzik. You can't have your opinions be lumped in with the rest of ours, you need a bigger spotlight. But no, it's all in our heads and we are all clearly delusional.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Isn't it possible that he knows a thing or two about operations and ALSO knows a thing or two about football?

This may be silly or arbitrary, but a HC or GM ideally should have played football. Doesn't have to at the top level, doesn't have to have been NFL caliber, but he should have been in a huddle and speaking Football-ese.

Its a different language completely. Guys like Bellichek and Mangini weren't NFL players (not by a longshot), but started out playing enough football to continue their trajectory into the coaching world.

In contrast, Tanny got involved with the Saints whilst attending Tulane Law and worked on the cap/business side of the game. As far as I'm aware, he does not have any playing backgroung. He worked his way up and I have no doubt that he picked up a tremendous amount about the game on that road. And the fact that he rose the way he did, impressing everyone he worked with, is a credit to him. He got to the ultimate position in his field despite not having certain key credentials. That's pretty amazing. And, to a certain point, he was successful. Ironically, what ultimately did him in was the Sanchez extension which should have been part of his core competency.

But, I always had my doubts about whether Tanny would be able to look at raw footage and analyze the strengths and weaknesses of a player like a scout could do. I'm sure he got better at it, but, at the end of the day, he probably relied on his staff more so than most other GMs (who obviously all rely on staffs for various different decisions.)

Idzik has a lot more personnel experience than Tanny did. It seems like he made it his business to become that well rounded candidate (or at least well rounded enough) in order to put himself to compete with the Tom Gambles, the Dave Caldwells who would also be up for GM positions.

Nothing I read from the Presser dissuades me of what I've heard/read about this guy.

I agree with all of that, 100%. John Idzik might grow into the best GM in our history, certainly has a strong intellect and has been in football for a very long time.

This 'debate' centers around whether or not he is primarily a cap guy. He is. We move on and accept that, support him and hope for the best. But we don't sit here in denial and act as if we just hired George Young, whip out the pom-pom's as fans of a team that needs new players, desperately.

Forget Idzik for a moment:

We just fired our GM and retained his entire staff while empowering the HC that had final-say and hired someone that does not have significant and recent player-personnel experience.

That doesn't bother you at all? You really see that as improving the team over the past two years? Because I see Rex and Terry doing what they've always done while John learns and Woody isn't paying attention.

SAR I