Yup, This Is A Cap Guy And Rex Is Running The Show

[Dcat]

In the end, it will come down to this:

Can Idzik, Rex and Woody get us a QB who can be elite? If yes, then Idzik will be viewed as a success. If not, he'll be a failure just like Tanny & co.

Unfortunately, in 2013, it's all about the QB and ours is one of the worst starting QBs in the history of the NFL. ugh...

trade Revis? If it helps us get rid of Sanchez and acquire a good QB, ok then I'm all for it.

This team will suck as long as Sanchez is the starter. No HC, GM or Owner can change that.

[BamaJets]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Right back at you.

I don't like Jets fans who accept the tripe that are being fed to them, who drop their pants, spread wide, and exclaim "please sir, may I have another" as management demolishes the team.

There's a time for gleeful enthusiasm. This is not one of those times. We're headed for two or three consecutive losing seasons and just hired a GM that was the last one chosen and has spent the last 11 years as an operations manager on two different clubs. Some of us have a right to be upset right now without being told that we're "bad fans" as if there's some rulebook that says "thou shall not criticize the team". It's the perfect time to criticize the team because their performance on and off the field in the past two years deserves a lot of criticism.

SAR I

Is that really an issue? How many years of "executive" experience did you say you had? 25+? And because the Jets weren't the first to hire a GM or didn't hire the first guy they interviewed means they made a mistake? OK then. Good luck working your way up the "corporate ladder"!

[lorwood]

Originally Posted by SAR I

I agree with all of that, 100%. John Idzik might grow into the best GM in our history, certainly has a strong intellect and has been in football for a very long time.

This 'debate' centers around whether or not he is primarily a cap guy. He is. We move on and accept that, support him and hope for the best. But we don't sit here in denial and act as if we just hired George Young, whip out the pom-pom's as fans of a team that needs new players, desperately.

Forget Idzik for a moment:

We just fired our GM and retained his entire staff while empowering the HC that had final-say and hired someone that does not have significant and recent player-personnel experience.

That doesn't bother you at all? You really see that as improving the team over the past two years? Because I see Rex and Terry doing what they've always done while John learns and Woody isn't paying attention.

SAR I

Like I have been saying its a basic lack of understanding fundamentals.

It truly is a circus.

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by SAR I

I agree with all of that, 100%. John Idzik might grow into the best GM in our history, certainly has a strong intellect and has been in football for a very long time.

This 'debate' centers around whether or not he is primarily a cap guy. He is. We move on and accept that, support him and hope for the best. But we don't sit here in denial and act as if we just hired George Young, whip out the pom-pom's as fans of a team that needs new players, desperately.

Forget Idzik for a moment:

We just fired our GM and retained his entire staff while empowering the HC that had final-say and hired someone that does not have significant and recent player-personnel experience.

That doesn't bother you at all? You really see that as improving the team over the past two years? Because I see Rex and Terry doing what they've always done while John learns and Woody isn't paying attention.

SAR I

I wouldn't put pre-conditions on what a GM needs to look like. I would have certain prerequisites that he needs to have in order to be considered. After that, I would take the most impressive candidate.

The prerequistes would be to have some experience in scouting, some experience in personnel decision making, some experience in negotiations as well as other areas.

After that, I'd take my time (which the Jets did) and meet with a good number of people. The Jets held an exhaustive search run by someone outside the organization (I was honestly worried about that). They chose this guy.

I'm going to hold off a bit before jumping to a conclusion based on a sound byte. You are free to do otherwise. Clearly.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Isn't it possible that he knows a thing or two about operations and ALSO knows a thing or two about football?


But, I always had my doubts about whether Tanny would be able to look at raw footage and analyze the strengths and weaknesses of a player like a scout could do. I'm sure he got better at it, but, at the end of the day, he probably relied on his staff more so than most other GMs (who obviously all rely on staffs for various different decisions.)

Idzik has a lot more personnel experience than Tanny did. It seems like he made it his business to become that well rounded candidate (or at least well rounded enough) in order to put himself to compete with the Tom Gambles, the Dave Caldwells who would also be up for GM positions.

Nothing I read from the Presser dissuades me of what I've heard/read about this guy.

Heres the thing that actually would be a great discussion point for this board, unfortunately it will probably get lost in the wreckage of yet another argument with Same Assinine Rhetoric.

In my opinion our scouting department is actually very good. Who have been our "terrible picks"?

Everyone loves to mention vlad ducasse...fine, we have a "bust" there picked 61st overall.

Kyle Wilson is an above average NFL starter as are kerley, slauson, and dustin keller.

Greene has gained 1000 yards twice and powell seems like a capable 2nd back (im downplaying here for arguements sake, i personally think he is a definite 1000 rusher and better player then greene).

Wilkerson is a monster and should have been a pro-bowler and coples had an excellent rookie year.

Hill and Ellis are developmental players with huge physical upside.

The Jets problem is NOT our ability to evaluate college talent....it is having a PLAN. We traded away too man draft picks to then pay veterans big salaries (Cro), misjudged how some players would fall off (bart and harris) and gave terrible contracts (sanchez, harris and revis).

So what SHOULD the team do....maybe hire someone who knows what it takes to build a winning group, understands player/contract value, knows what qualities he wants in players attitude and skill and who is SMART enough to keep the scouting department in tact.

Seems like we have exactly what we need.

[BamaJets]

Originally Posted by lorwood

Like I have been saying its a basic lack of understanding fundamentals.

It truly is a circus.

what multi-million $ company do you run?

[Bonhomme Richard]

Originally Posted by crasherino

I'm going to hold off a bit before jumping to a conclusion based on a sound byte. You are free to do otherwise. Clearly.

How else is SAR supposed to generate his famous 100-page threads? He lives for that, it gives him a feeling of relevance.

He's like crayc but slightly more coherent.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by crasherino

I wouldn't put pre-conditions on what a GM needs to look like. I would have certain prerequisites that he needs to have in order to be considered. After that, I would take the most impressive candidate.

The prerequistes would be to have some experience in scouting, some experience in personnel decision making, some experience in negotiations as well as other areas.

After that, I'd take my time (which the Jets did) and meet with a good number of people. The Jets held an exhaustive search run by someone outside the organization (I was honestly worried about that). They chose this guy.

I'm going to hold off a bit before jumping to a conclusion based on a sound byte. You are free to do otherwise. Clearly.

Can you respond to this part please:

We just fired our GM and retained his entire staff while empowering the HC that had final-say and hired someone that does not have significant and recent player-personnel experience.

That doesn't bother you at all? You really see that as improving the team over the past two years? Because I see Rex and Terry doing what they've always done while John learns and Woody isn't paying attention.

Today's issue really isn't Idzik. Today's issue is that every person related to player personnel has been retained except the new boss who has a ton to learn. How is 2013 going to be any better than 2012 in the player personnel department?

SAR I

[Ledge Hater #1]

This is the only type of guy the Jets would get to take this job. An accountant wannabe GM! What an absolute Joke!

[RaoulDuke]

LOL

SAR always picked the shortest straw in the Debate Club.

"..and SAR will defend apartheid. You have 5 minutes to prepare."

[Fishooked]

Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard

How else is SAR supposed to generate his famous 100-page threads? He lives for that, it gives him a feeling of relevance.

He's like crayc but slightly more coherent.

Don't be slighting crayc like that.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Don't think for me, please. You're not good at it.

If you say so Fran Sarcessa I.

Suffice it to say, you're 100% in alignment with Francessa. Again. Suprised you havn't mentioned that yet.

I mantain that passing ANY such judgment on a new GM based on his proforma introductory presser is pure lunacy, or projection of a negative agenda. There is literally nothing you can "take" from this presser, and IMO anyone who does is simply grinding their same old axes.

When Mr. Idzik makes his first move(s), THEN we'll have somethign worth discussing.

This? No.

Today's issue really isn't Idzik. Today's issue is that every person related to player personnel has been retained except the new boss who has a ton to learn. How is 2013 going to be any better than 2012 in the player personnel department?

Did you expect Idzik to come to the podium today and announce that he had fired the entire Jets Front Office staff, down to the Coffee gofer?

So now the presser wasn't "passionate" enough for you AND you're displeased because he didn't fire Rex AND fire the entire Front Office today, right off. Gotcha.

[BamaJets]

Originally Posted by Ledge Hater #1

This is the only type of guy the Jets would get to take this job. An accountant wannabe GM! What an absolute Joke!

excellent Post #43. Really looking forward to #44

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Can you respond to this part please:

We just fired our GM and retained his entire staff while empowering the HC that had final-say and hired someone that does not have significant and recent player-personnel experience.

That doesn't bother you at all? You really see that as improving the team over the past two years? Because I see Rex and Terry doing what they've always done while John learns and Woody isn't paying attention.

Today's issue really isn't Idzik. Today's issue is that every person related to player personnel has been retained except the new boss who has a ton to learn. How is 2013 going to be any better than 2012 in the player personnel department?

SAR I

Certainly.

As Eagle just pointed out, I do not concede that our FO/ Scouting Dept is bad. I am not for firing them necessarily. Of course, I'm sure there will be changes, but I'll wait a bit and see what they are. But, overall, the scouting department and personnel departments are fairly strong. They had to be considering Tanny's deficiencies.

I don't concede that we "empowered" Rex. If anything, he's on his last life. Perhaps he had too much say in past years, but I'm not sure that he's the guy calling the shots. If you believe that, that's fine - there's not much I can say otherwise.

Tanny was fired for a systemic breakdown in the direction of the team. Too many overpriced veterans, too many bloated contracts that were guaranteed and too few picks (on account of trades) that led to a lack of depth. And probably the most important, he failed at his most important pick - finding a QB and compounded that error by re-signing him to an unnecessary extension.

Just because Idzik is not a former player that primarily was a scout, does not mean Rex is calling the shots. Idzik has experience in all aspects of the Front Office - saying he is a "cap guy" is purposefully deminishing his experience. Ari Nissam is the Jets cap guy - he's obviously not a candidate to be a GM. Scott Cohen, OTOH, is our Ass't GM. He is in fact a candidate to be a GM (and was on lists during the season as potential candidates). He has a wide range of experience in the FO.

A new guy with a fresh outlook who had a hand in a Super Bowl team (Tampa) and an extremely well run young team (Seattle) who is extremely well regarded by everyone who he's worked with is now running the team and evaluating what he will continue and what he will revamp?

Nothing wrong with that.

[Bonhomme Richard]

Originally Posted by RaoulDuke

LOL

SAR always picked the shortest straw in the Debate Club.

"..and SAR will defend apartheid. You have 5 minutes to prepare."

Lmao, very good

[buzzershot18]

Originally Posted by Hitman Harris

Buushizz, and GFAG

If GFAG stands for Go F*** a Goat, and im pretty sure it does... this is my new favorite acronym

[intelligentjetsfan]

Originally Posted by Warfish

If you say so Fran Sarcessa I.

Suffice it to say, you're 100% in alignment with Francessa. Again. Suprised you havn't mentioned that yet.

I mantain that passing ANY such judgment on a new GM based on his proforma introductory presser is pure lunacy, or projection of a negative agenda. There is literally nothing you can "take" from this presser, and IMO anyone who does is simply grinding their same old axes.

When Mr. Idzik makes his first move(s), THEN we'll have somethign worth discussing.

This? No.



Did you expect Idzik to come to the podium today and announce that he had fired the entire Jets Front Office staff, down to the Coffee gofer?

So now the presser wasn't "passionate" enough for you AND you're displeased because he didn't fire Rex AND fire the entire Front Office today, right off. Gotcha.

In 100% total agreement with your opinions (this cannot be the political forum )

This is why GMs and coaches should never pay serious attention to the whims of the fans or else they will be soon sitting with them. Fan cans have whatever expections (high or low) that they want; that is the luxury of being a fan. Its when the so-called professionals start making decisions or acting based on those perceptions that the franchise is sunk.

[Fishooked]

Originally Posted by SAR I

I am telling you what I think.

This guy is a polished businessman, full of Grad School 101 cliche's. I've been in enough executive meetings to know what I just heard. Instead of a powerful GM with conviction who wants to put his personal stamp on the team, we have another game manager.

He'll build a better process, he'll have some great forms, he'll have a swell set of spreadsheets. Where we go from there is up to him, but for the first few seasons we're looking at a raw Mike Tannenbaum.

That's how I see it, that's how anyone in the business world will see it, you are free to feel differently.

SAR I

We all know you certainly don't hesitate to do that, now do you?


Your readings on this guy are clearly on a superficial level.
For such a superficial person as yourself, you would think you would get it, but you clearly don't.

And how many business meetings do you attend that are televised and have the press present? Thought so.

It's not the same as a friggin business meeting.


You've never met him, you don't know who he is. Plain & simple.

[JETFAN1]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Forget Idzik for a moment:

We just fired our GM and retained his entire staff while empowering the HC that had final-say and hired someone that does not have significant and recent player-personnel experience.

That doesn't bother you at all? You really see that as improving the team over the past two years? Because I see Rex and Terry doing what they've always done while John learns and Woody isn't paying attention.

SAR I

My belief is Mike relied heavily on the personnel people initially due to inexperience and gradually started making his own picks which aided to his downfall. Either his picks were aided by Rex or not is irrelevant here since we don't know what the future holds.

In regards to keeping the current personnel people it would be foolish to assume again what the future holds. Scouting has already begun for 2013 so firing them now would be dumb since they already did the legwork. None of the guys resigned as of yet but that doesn't mean they won't or get let go eventually.


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Jet Nut]

How stupid are you to cite the word collaborate to convince people that Rex has final decision, is running the show?

Is there no end to the level of nonsense you get when you open a SAR thread?

Another Rex sucks and needs to go thread from SAR? Shocking, surprising.