So, Mark Sanchez and a slew of Burn outs have cost us Revis?(merged REVIS x 100)

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

tanny is responsible, yes. and rex isn't helping by encouraging tanny to always draft defense in the first round, and to build an offensive roster with slow guys who cant catch

Exactly! Darrelle is not the problem. Darrelle is part of the solution. Darrelle's contract shouldn't be put under the microscope here because of Mike Tannenbaum's stupidity.

The Jets have a high #1, a high #2, and a high #3 pick this year. The Jets can go pick some offense up. Darrelle isn't stopping them.

[auctionking]

Originally Posted by BamaJets

can't the Jets get rid of Sanchez and Holmes after 2013 and free up about $17 mill? And Cro will count $9 mill against the cap in 2014 and Harris $5 mill (restructures). 2013 cap shape not good, but Revis isn't a FA until 2014 when things can be much, much better $ wise.

2014 is better ,but it will not be great cap wise

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

that's the one thing woody has missed the past few years. sure they were winning, but winning ugly. how did rex convince woody that winning with defense and not scoring would sell psls?

In case you forgot, the Jets, under Rex, traded for a 26 year old Santonio Holmes and a 26 year old Braylon Edwards.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

Again, not Darrelle's fault. What moves has Darrelle stopped the Jets from making on offense? Did Darrelle guarantee Sanchez's contract? Did Darrelle spend a second rounder on Ducasse? Did Darrelle pay Santonio Holmes like a #1 receiver? Did Darrelle re-sign Wayne Hunter? Did Darrelle decide to make Nick Mangold fat and lazy? Did Darrelle sprain Dustin Keller's ankle? Did Darrelle draft a WR in the second round who can't catch? Did Darrelle make Greene slower than molasses?

Yeah, it's not Revis' fault.

It's Tannenbaum's fault.

But guess what? We have to live with the decisions that goofy bastard made.

It's Idzik's job to fix this mess. It's what he signed up for.

And I pray to God that he's not as inept as Tanny and willing to bend over backwards to please Revis.

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

I'm saying that if Rex is such a genius when it comes to defense, then we shouldn't have to go defense in the 1st round of every draft and pay a fortune to our starting CB's.

This is all about resources.

We're severely limiting our resources to fix this offense if we're paying one of our CB's Tom f*cking Brady money.

On the other hand, we're increasing our resources to fix this sh*tastic offense by trading Revis, gaining some more high draft picks, and freeing up a boatload of money in the future.

I must be missing something here, because I didn't really see our defense faulter at all when Revis went down.

So our pass defense dipped from #1 to #2?

Whoopty sh*t

How does that constitute paying a corner franchise QB money?

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it's as simple as that.

Overall our D gave up roughly the same points in 2012 as in 2011. That could suggest that Revis is, indeed, a luxury item.

But we also massively improved our safety position - so why was our D no better overall? It doesn't matter to me how good our pass D was - we still shipped a ton of points. That to me is the only stat that matters. And the only stat on D that changes games. Yards allowed is irrelevant IMHO.

On the trade discussion, I think there are two separate things - draft picks, and cap room.

I am dead against trading Revis to get cap room - that can be done by cutting our under-performing players, it just can't be done immediately. Cut / restructure Sanchez, Holmes & Harris next year and suddenly there is no cap problem to discuss.

Draft picks is more of a decision in my mind. If we can improve two or three other positions, I'd be open to trade. But if all we're getting is one high pick, I'll pass - too much risk involved, trading a known commodity for a single, unknown commodity. Best result possible is we trade a Revis now for a Revis later. More likely is we get a good, but not great player. I don't see that as a win.

So if some team is willing to trade multiple picks, I'm interested. But just the one pick - I'd pass.

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

Exactly! Darrelle is not the problem. Darrelle is part of the solution. Darrelle's contract shouldn't be put under the microscope here because of Mike Tannenbaum's stupidity.

The Jets have a high #1, a high #2, and a high #3 pick this year. The Jets can go pick some offense up. Darrelle isn't stopping them.

revis isn't stopping them from drafting offense. his contract, however, makes it harder for the jets to reallocate their cap and spend money on building an offense. if rex is the coach, the defense will be decent or better, whether revis is there or not. they have some nice young talent on the d-line and i imagine they'll draft a fast olb this year to help out the pass rush. but to maintain a quality offense most years, not only will the jets need to find a good qb, but also go and get quality offensive talent. sure holmes and sanchez come off the books next year, but they need a few new linemen and more skill positions. they also may need 2 new safeties. there's a lot of holes to fill and it's prohibitive to field a competitive offense and a quality pass rush, etc, if you have that much money tied up in 1 cb.

[TheMikeIsHot]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

the jets would score if they had playmakers. sanchez is bad, sure, but if he had wrs and rbs who could turn a 10 yard catch into 30 yards and a 20 yard catch into a td and a screen pass into long gains, they'd have more points. not all tds are 70 yard perfect throws by elite qbs. teams get points from guys who outrun defenders and make them miss, too. they may not be great until they get a new qb, but it makes no sense to wait to go and get real playmakers just b/c they don't have a good qb.

Last year, the Jets were missing their $50M wideout and their 2nd round WR did not play much because of various nagging injuries, same goes for their 1st round pick TE.

They have used resources on offense, they have skilled players to throw the ball to (when healthy) and a competent QB would have been successful with those targets (when healthy) the biggest problem the past 4 seasons was the QB and the worthless schemes run by incompetent OCs.

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot

Last year, the Jets were missing their $50M wideout and their 2nd round WR did not play much because of various nagging injuries, same goes for their 1st round pick TE.

They have used resources on offense, they have skilled players to throw the ball to (when healthy) and a competent QB would have been successful with those targets (when healthy) the biggest problem the past 4 seasons was the QB and the worthless schemes run by incompetent OCs.

keller is overrated, may not even be here next season. holmes was a mistake and will be phased out as they bring in younger guys. they need a new qb, new rb, new wrs and a new te, probably 2 tes. the entire offense needs to be replaced, save for a few players. it's quite a task. the jets won't win with a new qb and holmes, keller, hill and kerley. that's not going to work. the offense needs to be blown up, not touched up.

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

In case you forgot, the Jets, under Rex, traded for a 26 year old Santonio Holmes and a 26 year old Braylon Edwards.

and how did that work out?

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

revis isn't stopping them from drafting offense. his contract, however, makes it harder for the jets to reallocate their cap and spend money on building an offense. if rex is the coach, the defense will be decent or better, whether revis is there or not. they have some nice young talent on the d-line and i imagine they'll draft a fast olb this year to help out the pass rush. but to maintain a quality offense most years, not only will the jets need to find a good qb, but also go and get quality offensive talent. sure holmes and sanchez come off the books next year, but they need a few new linemen and more skill positions. they also may need 2 new safeties. there's a lot of holes to fill and it's prohibitive to field a competitive offense and a quality pass rush, etc, if you have that much money tied up in 1 cb.

Again, which offensive moves has Revis' contract stopped the Jets from making? I want to know.

If anything, Santonio Holmes' and Mark Sanchez' contracts have prohibited the Jets from making moves at QB and WR. Wouldn't Vincent Jackson have been better than Holmes? How about drafting Russell Wilson, a real QB, instead of trading a fourth for Tim Tebow?

I'll say it for the tenth time, Darrelle Revis is not, nor will he ever be, the problem.

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

and how did that work out?

I'm not talking about how it worked out. I'm saying the Jets have used plenty of resources on offense, despite what you may claim. If those moves worked out better, you wouldn't be here crying about Darrelle Revis. The offense doesn't suck because of the lack of resources or the lack of trying.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

Again, which offensive moves has Revis' contract stopped the Jets from making? I want to know.

If anything, Santonio Holmes' and Mark Sanchez' contracts have prohibited the Jets from making moves at QB and WR. Wouldn't Vincent Jackson have been better than Holmes? How about drafting Russell Wilson, a real QB, instead of trading a fourth for Tim Tebow?

I'll say it for the tenth time, Darrelle Revis is not, nor will he ever be, the problem.

No one listened to Terry Bradway..

[TheMikeIsHot]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

keller is overrated, may not even be here next season. holmes was a mistake and will be phased out as they bring in younger guys. they need a new qb, new rb, new wrs and a new te, probably 2 tes. the entire offense needs to be replaced, save for a few players. it's quite a task. the jets won't win with a new qb and holmes, keller, hill and kerley. that's not going to work. the offense needs to be blown up, not touched up.

You have absolutely NO IDEA of knowing if the Jets can win with a new QB and the that group of WRs. Anything you say is pure speculation... and it all depends on who the QB is. You just don't know what will work and what won't.

And drafting a new crop of guys is not guaranteed to work. Say the Jets get 2 picks for Revis. Odds are, only one of them is any good.

So now we're back in the same situation in two years and we don't have Revis.

And that's why it's not worth trading him IMO.

As right as you might be about having to blow it up (I still disagree about blow up vs. touchup) they need to get lucky with the picks for it to be a worth while trade... just not a smart way to run things. If you were to tell me they were trading Revis for a high pick AND and established player, I'll listen. But not for a pair of picks.

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot

Last year, the Jets were missing their $50M wideout and their 2nd round WR did not play much because of various nagging injuries, same goes for their 1st round pick TE.

They have used resources on offense, they have skilled players to throw the ball to (when healthy) and a competent QB would have been successful with those targets (when healthy) the biggest problem the past 4 seasons was the QB and the worthless schemes run by incompetent OCs.

Exactly! The ****ty offense has nothing to do with Darrelle. People here are acting like he's the reason for the ****ty offense or that his contract will prohibit the offense from being any good in the future. It's ridiculous. Tannenclown tried to build an offense, he just failed. He had the resources and used them. You don't need to trade Revis to have a good offense. The new GM just needs to make better moves.

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by Savage69

No one listened to Terry Bradway..

Anyone who says the Jets' scouts needs to be replaced is a buffoon. The Jets have GOOD scouts. The GM needs to listen to the scouts. Terry Bradway was in love with Russell Wilson. It's not his fault that Tannenclown and Woody had a hard on for Tim Tebow.

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot

You have absolutely NO IDEA of knowing if the Jets can win with a new QB and the that group of WRs. Anything you say is pure speculation... and it all depends on who the QB is. You just don't know what will work and what won't.

if i'm idzik, i'm not betting the over here. i'm looking for top notch talent.

[TheMikeIsHot]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

if i'm idzik, i'm not betting the over here. i'm looking for top notch talent.

Yet you want to trade the best player on the team?

I don't want to trade a stud for picks who are just as likely to bust as they are to become pro bowlers. You seem to think that's a good idea.

I'm fairly certain you won't be changing your mind and neither will I. Agree to disagree I suppose.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

Exactly! The ****ty offense has nothing to do with Darrelle. People here are acting like he's the reason for the ****ty offense or that his contract will prohibit the offense from being any good in the future. It's ridiculous. Tannenclown tried to build an offense, he just failed. He had the resources and used them. You don't need to trade Revis to have a good offense. The new GM just needs to make better moves.

Who the hell is blaming Revis for the mess we're in?

We all know Tannenbaum is at fault. This sh*t isn't rocket science.

Some of us simply believe that it would be f*cking stupid to pay out the ass for a CB when:

A) We're in a bad situation offensively and with the cap
B) We had the 2nd ranked pass defense in the league without Revis

You guys act like Revis is invaluable to this team, when last season would suggest just the opposite.

[TheMikeIsHot]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Who the hell is blaming Revis for the mess we're in?

We all know Tannenbaum is at fault. This sh*t isn't rocket science.

Some of us simply believe that it would be f*cking stupid to pay out the ass for a CB when:

A) We're in a bad situation offensively and with the cap
B) We had the 2nd ranked pass defense in the league without Revis

You guys act like Revis is invaluable to this team, when last season would suggest just the opposite.

They were #2 in pass D. They were also 26th in rushing yards against, with 133 yards a game allowed. Teams ran on the Jets 495 times last year (3rd most in the league) vs. 494 passing attempts (3rd lowest in the league)

Perhaps teams didn't throw as much because they knew running was going to come easy. Or maybe the Jets, knowing they didn't have Revis, used more players for pass D at the expense of the run D.

No matter how you look at it, they were not as good defensively, on the whole, as they were in the previous years. And IMO that has everything to do with Revis.

[ASH_1962]

Us old farts remember this trade like it was yesterday. For those younger persons here, google "Herschel Walker Trade" and read up on just what that trade did for the Dallas Cowboys and what it did to the Minnesota Vikings.

We have that type of player who we seemingly must trade. A trade of Revis done correctly could make this franchise. The wrong move can as easily, break this franchise, even more then it is already broken believe it or not.

Here's s a small snippet I found on the Herschel Walker trade:


"Minnesota Vikings received RB Herschel Walker
Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1990 (54) (Mike Jones)
San Diego's 5th round pick - 1990 (116) (Reggie Thornton)
Dallas's 10th round pick - 1990 (249) (Pat Newman)
Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1991 (68) (Jake Reed)

Dallas Cowboys received LB Jesse Solomon
LB David Howard
CB Issiac Holt
RB Darrin Nelson (traded to San Diego after he refused to report to Dallas)
DE Alex Stewart
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) (traded this pick along with pick (81) for pick (17) from Pittsburgh to draft Emmitt Smith)
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright)
Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans, who drafted James Williams)
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (12) (Alvin Harper)
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38) (Dixon Edwards)
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (37) (Darren Woodson)
Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71) (traded to New England, who drafted Kevin Turner)
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles, and then to the Houston Oilers, who drafted Brad Hopkins)


That trade translated into a Dallas dynasty and multiple SB wins. In my opinion we have a top bargaining chip and because we need so many upgrades at so many positions we would be foolish not to try to pull off a trade similar to what I posted above, or as close as we can get anyway. Facts is, Revis is a great player but a total financial pain in the arse. We would be best served to wait, maybe even until the draft approaches and see if we can secure multiple picks in a similar fashion to what Jimmy Johnson did imo.