So, Mark Sanchez and a slew of Burn outs have cost us Revis?(merged REVIS x 100)

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot

They were #2 in pass D. They were also 26th in rushing yards against, with 133 yards a game allowed.

Perhaps teams didn't throw as much because they knew running was going to come easy. Or maybe the Jets, knowing they didn't have Revis, used more players for pass D at the expense of the run D.

No matter how you look at it, they were not as good defensively, on the whole, as they were in the previous years. And IMO that has everything to do with Revis.

To me it has more to do with our LB corps being slow as balls.

But that's just me.

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Who the hell is blaming Revis for the mess we're in?

We all know Tannenbaum is at fault. This sh*t isn't rocket science.

Some of us simply believe that it would be f*cking stupid to pay out the ass for a CB when:

A) We're in a bad situation offensively and with the cap
B) We had the 2nd ranked pass defense in the league without Revis

You guys act like Revis is invaluable to this team, when last season would suggest just the opposite.

And I'm saying you're taking the resources from the wrong place (Revis) to fix the offense. You don't need to do that. The draft choices this year are very valuable. We can dump Holmes and Sanchez within the next year.

And statistics are just bull**** sometimes. The Jets had a statistically better pass defense in 2009 than in 2010. Is Lito Sheppard even close to being as good as Antonio Cromartie? NO!

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

To me it has more to do with our LB corps being slow as balls.

But that's just me.

No, it was because Pouha wasn't healthy and more guys were being used in coverage because of no Revis,

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

And I'm saying you're taking the resources from the wrong place (Revis) to fix the offense. You don't need to do that. The draft choices this year are very valuable. We can dump Holmes and Sanchez within the next year.

And statistics are just bull**** sometimes. The Jets had a statistically better pass defense in 2009 than in 2010. Is Lito Sheppard even close to being as good as Antonio Cromartie? NO!

Yeah, the draft choices this year are very valuable.

So how about we get some more of them?

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

No, it was because Pouha wasn't healthy and more guys were being used in coverage because of no Revis,

Yes, I'm sure slow old bastards like Bart and Pace had nothing to do with it.

[greenwichjetfan]

That was one of the worst trades in sports history.

Nobody is stupid enough to make such an absurd trade again.

And given the salary cap, rookie cap, and parity, that type of scenario will never again play out. No one would give all that up and then still be at the risk of being held random by Revis' contractual demands.

[SDJETS]

I love that a thread dedicated to bashing the huge contracts to certain players, is also advocating giving a huge contract to another player. Whether the player is a God or sucks, in football, the only time it remotely makes sense to look up a significant part of your cap to one person is if his name is Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Could Revis have made the Colts that good for that long? Not a chance...

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Yeah, the draft choices this year are very valuable.

So how about we get some more of them?

With the rookie cap, you can get a lot for the 9th overall pick. The second rounder is almost a first rounder. It's a good position to be in.

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Yes, I'm sure slow old bastards like Bart and Pace had nothing to do with it.

Harris, Scott and Pace are some of the slowest guys out there. But, they were slow last year, as well.

Stopping the run always starts with Pouha and Devito.

[TheMikeIsHot]

Do you honestly think a trade like this is a possibility?

Keep dreaming, bro.

[DDNYjets]

The Walker trade was a once in a lifetime deal. We can hope for those results but it is very unlikely.

We are not going to "win" the Revis trade. Player for player, pound for pound, we are not going to get equal value. That is almost impossible.

The trade should be judged by whether or not the players we draft with those picks help improve the team as a whole. Right now we are not a playoff team and have an awful offense. If the team gets younger, cheaper and better as a whole and we become a contender again then the trade will be worth it.

You have to look at the team as a whole. If the team improves then the deal was good.

[SDJETS]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

Harris, Scott and Pace are some of the slowest guys out there. But, they were slow last year, as well.

Stopping the run always starts with Pouha and Devito.

Except that neither of those two guys can stop the pass, thus Brady abusing the base defense. Thus the whole point in drafting Wilkerson and Coples.

Pouha and Devito are great at stopping the run, but to win the league and beyond, they need lineman who can do both...

[John_0515]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

The Walker trade was a once in a lifetime deal. We can hope for those results but it is very unlikely.

We are not going to "win" the Revis trade. Player for player, pound for pound, we are not going to get equal value. That is almost impossible.

The trade should be judged by whether or not the players we draft with those picks help improve the team as a whole. Right now we are not a playoff team and have an awful offense. If the team gets younger, cheaper and better as a whole and we become a contender again then the trade will be worth it.

You have to look at the team as a whole. If the team improves then the deal was good.

Excellent points. If we keep Revis, does the team improve? No, we probably don't win another 5 games to make the playoffs.

If we obtain an OL, RB, QB, OLB, maybe 2 or 3 starters out of those positions, will the team improve? Yes, maybe 2-3 games more (W's).

We're rebuilding. We're not winning anything anytime soon.

[Apache 51]

This is not going to be a Walker trade.

[patman]

This time started by a Patriots fan. I started this thread so that potential trades could have somewhat of a logical framework. The framework includes the assumption that Revis will require a contract of 6 years with a 12.5 salary and 35mill guaranteed.

I think Revis should stay with they jets unless they can get a #1 pick. Fans need something to hold on to and he is a better face than Rex for the team. The jets can up his salary for the next three years and then guarantee a large bonus in 2016 ans spread that over the last three years of his deal.
Revis Will have his salary increased from 3 mill to 11 mill in 2014 and 2015
in 2016 he gets 25 mill SB and salaries of 7 per year for three years. This ends up being 6 years and 70 mill, but no worries about next years performance. This does not increase his cap hit for next year allowing the jets some flexibility

If he is traded. My understanding is that under the new CBA the SB has to be amortized over 5 years max and that players salaries can not increase more than 30% each year of the contract. That means that his first year cap hit for the NEW team will be at least 10 mill. (3mill salary and 7mill SB)

These are the following team with at least 10 mill of cap room. With a quick note regarding Their level of interest or actual cap situation.


Baltimore $1.2M $15.7M (Flacco, Ellebree, Williams, Mckinne FA)
Buffalo $9.8M $20.6M AFC EAST
Chicago $3.2M $13.3M needs Oline, WR no 2nd rd pick
Cincinnati $8.5M $55.1M did not think Joseph was worth 8 mill
Cleveland $14.3M $48.9M Hayden is FA in 2014
Denver $11.5M $18.5M Clady FA this year, so is CB Porter
Houston $2.4M $12.9M signed joseph & drafted cb #1
Indianapolis $3.5M $46M
Jacksonville $19.5M $22.1M
Kansas City $14M $16.1M let Carr go at 8 mill but new gm
Miami $5.3M $35.8M afc east
Minnesota $8M $16.1M
New England $5.6M $18.6M afc east /pay structure
Seattle $13.2M $18.6M Best and cheapest secondary in the NFL
Tampa Bay $8.5M $31.3M
Tennessee $12.8M $19.4M

Based on not trading him in the division and eliminating Balt, Houston and Seattle as they already have quality players or inn balt's case no money once Flacco is signed. There are 9 teams that could have an interest and have enough cap room to get it done.

[RMJK]

Originally Posted by patman

This time started by a Patriots fan. I started this thread so that potential trades could have somewhat of a logical framework. The framework includes the assumption that Revis will require a contract of 6 years with a 12.5 salary and 35mill guaranteed.

I think Revis should stay with they jets unless they can get a #1 pick. Fans need something to hold on to and he is a better face than Rex for the team. The jets can up his salary for the next three years and then guarantee a large bonus in 2016 ans spread that over the last three years of his deal.
Revis Will have his salary increased from 3 mill to 11 mill in 2014 and 2015
in 2016 he gets 25 mill SB and salaries of 7 per year for three years. This ends up being 6 years and 70 mill, but no worries about next years performance. This does not increase his cap hit for next year allowing the jets some flexibility

If he is traded. My understanding is that under the new CBA the SB has to be amortized over 5 years max and that players salaries can not increase more than 30% each year of the contract. That means that his first year cap hit for the NEW team will be at least 10 mill. (3mill salary and 7mill SB)

These are the following team with at least 10 mill of cap room. With a quick note regarding Their level of interest or actual cap situation.


Baltimore $1.2M $15.7M (Flacco, Ellebree, Williams, Mckinne FA)
Buffalo $9.8M $20.6M AFC EAST
Chicago $3.2M $13.3M needs Oline, WR no 2nd rd pick
Cincinnati $8.5M $55.1M did not think Joseph was worth 8 mill
Cleveland $14.3M $48.9M Hayden is FA in 2014
Denver $11.5M $18.5M Clady FA this year, so is CB Porter
Houston $2.4M $12.9M signed joseph & drafted cb #1
Indianapolis $3.5M $46M
Jacksonville $19.5M $22.1M
Kansas City $14M $16.1M let Carr go at 8 mill but new gm
Miami $5.3M $35.8M afc east
Minnesota $8M $16.1M
New England $5.6M $18.6M afc east /pay structure
Seattle $13.2M $18.6M Best and cheapest secondary in the NFL
Tampa Bay $8.5M $31.3M
Tennessee $12.8M $19.4M

Based on not trading him in the division and eliminating Balt, Houston and Seattle as they already have quality players or inn balt's case no money once Flacco is signed. There are 9 teams that could have an interest and have enough cap room to get it done.

Nice work Patman. From your choices I think Denver will show interest. Their Safety lost them that last playoff game. Denver needs to win now with Manning and getting him a support cast could make the difference.

[Mainejet]

The Jets will never get that many picks for Revis.

I also do not believe the Jets would ever get two 1st round draft picks for Revis which is what I think at a minimum Revis is worth.

So really I just wish the Jets would resign Revis. He's a great player and the Jets have been spending foolishly for guys who didn't deserve it. Why not spend the big money now on a guy who clearly does deserve the money?

[GreenReaper]

Most of these arguments are fruitless. But I'll give you my defensive philosphy.

For me...the front 7 of a defense is more important then the secondary. Putting pressure on an elite QB...IMO...is the best way to defend against them. Even though the Jets secondary was 2nd in the league. They were only 23rd in the league with just 11 INTs. It had a great deal to do with the Jets having a mediocre pass rush. Jets were 25th in sacks(30)...therefore = 23rd in INTs.

In 2011 Jets were 17th in sacks(35) and therefore 10th in INTS(19.)

So the Jets on just a 5 sack differential, from 2011 to 2012, drops the Jets from 17th to 25th in sacks...and from 10th to 23rd in INTs. Even if I added 3 INTs to equal Darelle's 2011 total of 4...that puts Jets INT ranking at 16th. Sacks...and the pressures that go with it...is a magnifier...it is a huge difference maker...in stopping offensive drives.

My contention is...if the Jets had an elite pass rush that produced 44-47 sacks, the Jets would have caused way more TOs via INTs and FFs. Which helps tremendously the +/- TO ratio. This is especially so if you have someone playing QB, that's just in the middle of the pack with TOs...rather then the Sanchez TO machine.

And this simple little fact often escapes us all...TOs is a big determinator as to who wins and who loses a football game. And sacks-pressures, is the most important single weapen on defense...that causes them. Sacks-pressures kill drives and cause TOs.

My philosophy is the Giants philosophy...of having a defensive front 7 D, that can dominate the game. Sack the Brady's 3-5 times. Knock them down and hit them frequently enough...and they will start to hurry their passes. Mess up their footwork and accuracy. The more you can do this with a 3-4 man rush, and just an occasional 5th man blitzing...the better chance you have in forcing incompletions, or making a pick with 7-8 dropped in coverage. This is still the best way of defeating an elite QB. And of course we know...the Giants had a mediocre to average secondary in both those two Super Bowl runs.

I would not pay Revis...as if he was a monster dominator within that front 7. Like someone that can frequently penetrate into the backfield, and effect plays...and blow up a whole offense by himself.

Does the crappy contracts given to Sanchez, Holmes and Harris have an impact on the Revis negotiations? Yes they do. The amount of bad contracts you're stuck with...are always going to have a negative effect on who you can keep and who you can get.

That's why there's a new sheriff in town in Idzik. And believe me...Woody has read Rex the riot act. Rex coaches and Idzik makes the personnel decisions. And if Rex' has a problem with that...then Idzik is going to have a problem with him.

To close this...here's an excerpt from a Cannizarro article on Jets-Revis contract situation...

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/...owI7BwNng58MAP

This is what stared John Idzik in the face on his first full day at the office as Jets general manager yesterday: a $100 million Darrelle Revis dilemma.

The Jets are running damage control with their best player, whose nose has been bent out of shape by news of the team exploring trade options for him to avoid paying him the mega-contract he’s seeking.

According to someone familiar with his thinking, Revis is seeking a contract similar to or “just north of’’ the deal the Bills gave defensive end Mario Williams — six years, $96 million with $50 million guaranteed. That is the largest contract for a defensive player in NFL history.

The Jets were noncommittal on Revis’ future with the team during Thursday’s press conference to officially introduce Idzik.

Nevertheless, the team was quite committed to exploring its trade options for the cornerback long before he blew out his left knee against the Dolphins in Week 2.

Two NFL sources told The Post yesterday the Jets were floating their interest around the league in trading Revis before he suffered his season-ending injury — a clear indication they have had no plans to sign him to the long-term contract he wants.

Something around $100 mil for 6 years? Sorry I wouldn't do it...and I guess from these type of reports...Woody and Idzik don't want to either. I like Revis...but not for that much money.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan

That was one of the worst trades in sports history.

Nobody is stupid enough to make such an absurd trade again.

And given the salary cap, rookie cap, and parity, that type of scenario will never again play out. No one would give all that up and then still be at the risk of being held random by Revis' contractual demands.

Agreed..but that's not the OPs point. It's what can we get?

I believe we can get a good player, say an OLINE man, and at least 2 good picks , a 1st and a second and perhaps a conditional.


At what level is a trade worth it. I would refuse to pay Revis Mario Williams money.



Look at Houston and Bufalo post Williams trade.

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

I believe we can get a good player, say an OLINE man, and at least 2 good picks , a 1st and a second and perhaps a conditional.

I'd like to think we could get something like this ... but I just can't see it.

Best I could see is a first and a third. And even then, not particularly high ones. We'd really need to hit well on both to get equal value, IMHO. What does a mid to low first get you in this year's draft - a TE, a G? Maybe a Safety? I just can't get excited about that.