Tinstar's post Senior Bowl Mock

[Tinstar]

The Jets trade Revis for a 1st round pick this year and a conditional 2nd day pick next yr that can be as high as a 1st depend

The Jets resign Austin Howard and Jeff Cumberland: Would also like to try and resign Jason Smith after cutting him for cap savings.

The Jets cut: Bart Scott, Jason Smith, Eric Smith, Calvin Pace, Bryan Thomas, Tim Tebow,

Jets restructure the contracts of David Harris, Antonio cromartie and Nick Mangold.


1st: Eric Fisher - LT/RT
1st : Ezekiel Ansah - OLB
2nd: Barrett Jones - OC/OG
3rd: Michael Buchannon - OLB
4th: Michael Christine - RB
5th: Travis Kelce/Dion Sims/Michael Williams - TE
6th: Chris Harper - WR
7th Jeff Tuel - QB

Starting OL:
Brick Ferguson - LT
Jason Smith - LG
Nick Mangold - OC
Barrett Jones - RG
Austin Howard/ Eric Fisher - RT

Defensive Front 7:
LE - Mo Wilkerson
NT - Kenrick Ellis
RE - Quinton Coples
OLB - Ezekiel Ansah
OLB - Garrett Mcintyre
Ilb - David Harris
ILB - Damario Davis


Eric Fisher maybe the starting RT if he beats out Howard,but will also be a solid backup LT if Ferguson comes uo injured.

Barrett Jones is being pencilled in as the starting RG from the getgo, but is also insurance if Mangold gets injured.

Prior to the Combines, i like Zeke as the OLB to replace Bryan Thomas at OLBer capable of setting the edge and being better at rushing the passer while losing something in coverage. Gotta see how this kid runs at the combines.Anything under 4.8 and i am sold.

[iahawkeyejet]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

The Jets trade Revis for a 1st round pick this year and a conditional 2nd day pick next yr that can be as high as a 1st depend

The Jets resign Austin Howard and Jeff Cumberland: Would also like to try and resign Jason Smith after cutting him for cap savings.

The Jets cut: Bart Scott, Jason Smith, Eric Smith, Calvin Pace, Bryan Thomas, Tim Tebow,

Jets restructure the contracts of David Harris, Antonio cromartie and Nick Mangold.


1st: Eric Fisher - LT/RT
1st : Ezekiel Ansah - OLB
2nd: Barrett Jones - OC/OG
3rd: Michael Buchannon - OLB
4th: Michael Christine - RB
5th: Travis Kelce/Dion Sims/Michael Williams - TE
6th: Chris Harper - WR
7th Jeff Tuel - QB

Starting OL:
Brick Ferguson - LT
Jason Smith - LG
Nick Mangold - OC
Barrett Jones - RG
Austin Howard/ Eric Fisher - RT

Defensive Front 7:
LE - Mo Wilkerson
NT - Kenrick Ellis
RE - Quinton Coples
OLB - Ezekiel Ansah
OLB - Garrett Mcintyre
Ilb - David Harris
ILB - Damario Davis


Eric Fisher maybe the starting RT if he beats out Howard,but will also be a solid backup LT if Ferguson comes uo injured.

Barrett Jones is being pencilled in as the starting RG from the getgo, but is also insurance if Mangold gets injured.

Prior to the Combines, i like Zeke as the OLB to replace Bryan Thomas at OLBer capable of setting the edge and being better at rushing the passer while losing something in coverage. Gotta see how this kid runs at the combines.Anything under 4.8 and i am sold.

You don't pick an OL in the top 10 to possibly beat someone out, and if not have him be a backup. If Fisher is the pick, he starts at RT from day one and yu move howard.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by iahawkeyejet

You don't pick an OL in the top 10 to possibly beat someone out, and if not have him be a backup. If Fisher is the pick, he starts at RT from day one and yu move howard.

Ok, but the New GM said competition is what this team is going to be all about. Howard was the satrter last year, so the Rookie is going to have to beat him out. No more free rides on this bus.

P.S. What did u think about the draft.

[pcola]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

Ok, but the New GM said competition is what this team is going to be all about. Howard was the satrter last year, so the Rookie is going to have to beat him out. No more free rides on this bus.

P.S. What did u think about the draft.

Idzik did say that. But it is impossible to take Fisher and not have him start from day one. You can have a pseudo- comp but by the end or rookie camp, Fisher is the RT and Howard is competing for the LG spot.

There's competition and there is developing your youn talent. I don't see the, bringing in someone to compete with Stephen Hill. They need Hill to develop.

We do need comp at LB, back up corners, safety, etc.

[section314]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

The Jets trade Revis for a 1st round pick this year and a conditional 2nd day pick next yr that can be as high as a 1st depend

The Jets resign Austin Howard and Jeff Cumberland: Would also like to try and resign Jason Smith after cutting him for cap savings.

The Jets cut: Bart Scott, Jason Smith, Eric Smith, Calvin Pace, Bryan Thomas, Tim Tebow,

Jets restructure the contracts of David Harris, Antonio cromartie and Nick Mangold.


1st: Eric Fisher - LT/RT
1st : Ezekiel Ansah - OLB
2nd: Barrett Jones - OC/OG
3rd: Michael Buchannon - OLB
4th: Michael Christine - RB
5th: Travis Kelce/Dion Sims/Michael Williams - TE
6th: Chris Harper - WR
7th Jeff Tuel - QB

Starting OL:
Brick Ferguson - LT
Jason Smith - LG
Nick Mangold - OC
Barrett Jones - RG
Austin Howard/ Eric Fisher - RT

Defensive Front 7:
LE - Mo Wilkerson
NT - Kenrick Ellis
RE - Quinton Coples
OLB - Ezekiel Ansah
OLB - Garrett Mcintyre
Ilb - David Harris
ILB - Damario Davis


Eric Fisher maybe the starting RT if he beats out Howard,but will also be a solid backup LT if Ferguson comes uo injured.

Barrett Jones is being pencilled in as the starting RG from the getgo, but is also insurance if Mangold gets injured.

Prior to the Combines, i like Zeke as the OLB to replace Bryan Thomas at OLBer capable of setting the edge and being better at rushing the passer while losing something in coverage. Gotta see how this kid runs at the combines.Anything under 4.8 and i am sold.

Love that draft, think Idzik would too. Don't think Christine and Kelce last that long, though. Two questions.....1) who are you trading Revis to? 2) who is Jeff Tuel? Not familiar.

[iahawkeyejet]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

Ok, but the New GM said competition is what this team is going to be all about. Howard was the satrter last year, so the Rookie is going to have to beat him out. No more free rides on this bus.

P.S. What did u think about the draft.

As far as the Draft, if those are the amount of picks, and the rounds we get them in, I would be very upset with that draft outside of Fisher.

I personally do not want anything to do with Ansah. Also, if we take a OL at 9, They can't take one in the 2nd round as well. I am all for building up a strong OL, but there are too many holes to fill to be picking 2 OL in the first 2 rounds.

I think Buchanan is a reach in the 3rd, and Christine Michael has character and injury concerns. If we are using a 4th Rounder on a RB with injury concerns, I'd rather have Lattimore than Michael.

I would be ok with a TE of that caliber in the 5th, and wouldn't want Tuel, even if it's just a 7th.

[Beerfish]

Don't mind some of the picks, totally hate hate hate the 1st pick. You are using the #9 pick over all and then saying that fisher can compete with Howard for the starting Rt spot. You use a top 10 pick on LT's. It's as bad as people wanting to draft a QB at 9 because we have a bad QB. I am not sold though less resistant at going for the all world guard at #9 but a tackle would just be foolish in my opinion. (As you all probably already know since I bleat about it in every second post. )

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by section314

Love that draft, think Idzik would too. Don't think Christine and Kelce last that long, though. Two questions.....1) who are you trading Revis to? 2) who is Jeff Tuel? Not familiar.

I would like to trade Revis to the Pack or the Texans.

Jeff Tuel with the Cougars.

[Tinstar]

This is what i would do if i were charged with the Job of managing a football team. This is my plan for the Jets, but it's my drafting M.O. so to speak. Regardless of who is on my Football team, I am not drafting a non premium position player with a 1st day pick .

If these Positions are not available to me in the 1st i am trading the pick for the best package i can get even if it's includes future consideration.

[eaglenj]

No interest in a tackle and i would pray if your scenario happened fisher would beat our howard in 2 days of practice.

I like the Ansah pick a lot....I think he is going to be a big part of the discussion at 9.

I like harper a TON but read that if he runs a good 40 he could go as high as the 2nd round and wont last past the 4th.

I also like Cyprien a lot however also heard same thing...he might have played himself into the 2nd-3rd round discussion, but maybe as teams "reach" for players they like he could fall.

[Tinstar]

I just don't understand Jet fans at all. This team has no QB, 2 Starting members of the OL that are presently guaranteed to return, no depth and no money to speak of but the team should go out and draft skill position players on Offense.

Who's going to get them the ball.

Who's going to block for the missing QB that is supposed to get them the ball.

Where are we going to get the money to even help in this fools errand.

You have to have a plan and since we don't have a QB and no offensive line , the best plan of attack is to build the offensive line the best you can until a QB becomes available. Until that happens, you run the ball and play a ball control field position offense behind the OL you have built.

I don't get what is wrong with my draft . The Jets need skill position players for next season.

Santonio Holmes is on this team
Stephen Hill is on this team
Jeremy Kerley is on this team
Joe McKnight is on this team


What is not on this team are OLmen and a QB.

[JetsfanfromtheBURGH]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

I just don't understand Jet fans at all. This team has no QB, 2 Starting members of the OL that are presently guaranteed to return, no depth and no money to speak of but the team should go out and draft skill position players on Offense.

Who's going to get them the ball.

Who's going to block for the missing QB that is supposed to get them the ball.

Where are we going to get the money to even help in this fools errand.

You have to have a plan and since we don't have a QB and no offensive line , the best plan of attack is to build the offensive line the best you can until a QB becomes available. Until that happens, you run the ball and play a ball control field position offense behind the OL you have built.

I don't get what is wrong with my draft . The Jets need skill position players for next season.

Santonio Holmes is on this team
Stephen Hill is on this team
Jeremy Kerley is on this team
Joe McKnight is on this team


What is not on this team are OLmen and a QB.

I like your draft tinstar! Keep up the good work big guy

[FreshBaked 24 7]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

I just don't understand Jet fans at all. This team has no QB, 2 Starting members of the OL that are presently guaranteed to return, no depth and no money to speak of but the team should go out and draft skill position players on Offense.

Teams that draft skill positions early generally have done better over the long run than teams that haven't

Who's going to get them the ball.

Who's going to block for the missing QB that is supposed to get them the ball.

Understanding that based on our new OC's past, as long as it's a marginally sound QB, the job can be done. The passed four years if we had just had a slightly competent QB that didn't turn the ball over we would probably have a ring

Where are we going to get the money to even help in this fools errand.

It's been discussed ad-nauseum that simply cutting Bart Scott, Calvin Pace, Justin Smith, Eric Smith, and Tebow nets up over $20 million in salary cap space

You have to have a plan and since we don't have a QB and no offensive line , the best plan of attack is to build the offensive line the best you can until a QB becomes available. Until that happens, you run the ball and play a ball control field position offense behind the OL you have built.

Ball control offenses are losing games in the NFL. It's why the 49er's went with Keap and the Ravens threw Cameron'sass to the curb to allow Flacco to dictate the offense. Run first and ball control offenses get you the 2009-2010 Jets and last years 49ers and Ravens... No where

I don't get what is wrong with my draft . The Jets need skill position players for next season.

What's wrong with your draft is that you are creating holes where there are none to begin with and calling it progress

Santonio Holmes is on this team
Stephen Hill is on this team
Jeremy Kerley is on this team
Joe McKnight is on this team

My god.... the scariest offense in the league right there

(McKnight will also be a cap casualty which is why plenty of people have put Taylor or some other runningback on their draft list)

What is not on this team are OLmen and a QB.

Yet to be evaluated but chances are Austin Howard sticks around.... POSSIBLY Slausen as well.

Moore is definitely gone but we don't need to spend a first day pick to replace him... much like almost every other team in this league

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

Teams that draft skill positions early generally have done better over the long run than teams that haven't



Understanding that based on our new OC's past, as long as it's a marginally sound QB, the job can be done. The passed four years if we had just had a slightly competent QB that didn't turn the ball over we would probably have a ring



It's been discussed ad-nauseum that simply cutting Bart Scott, Calvin Pace, Justin Smith, Eric Smith, and Tebow nets up over $20 million in salary cap space



Ball control offenses are losing games in the NFL. It's why the 49er's went with Keap and the Ravens threw Cameron'sass to the curb to allow Flacco to dictate the offense. Run first and ball control offenses get you the 2009-2010 Jets and last years 49ers and Ravens... No where



What's wrong with your draft is that you are creating holes where there are none to begin with and calling it progress



My god.... the scariest offense in the league right there

(McKnight will also be a cap casualty which is why plenty of people have put Taylor or some other runningback on their draft list)




Yet to be evaluated but chances are Austin Howard sticks around.... POSSIBLY Slausen as well.

Moore is definitely gone but we don't need to spend a first day pick to replace him... much like almost every other team in this league

where did i create a hole. In this draft, I didn't trade the fans Precious Ferguson.

[FreshBaked 24 7]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

where did i create a hole. In this draft, I didn't trade the fans Precious Ferguson.

Annnndddd now we see where you were going with that selection lol

Justin Smith at guard is a hole. Guy notoriously just wants to collect paychecks after he got his bell rung

And as much as Fisher has helped his draft stock, he's still not a top 10 worthy pick. But even if he was, and we followed your logic, he'll be a top 10 right tackle trying to battle with a guy that we could have not resigned a contract with.

In essence, an absolute waste of a top 10 pick

BPA doesn't just mean guys who are talented, value of position comes into play

QB
LT
DE
DT
OLB
CB
WR

Should realistically be the only positions taken in the first round and in an ideal world, prioritized in that exact order. Now that's not to say that any QB should be taken over a DE, which is when talent or "BPA" is taken into account.

If you take your big board of players, say, Mike Mayock's bigboard, you prioritize players based on talent. You then shelve players that are not positions you see above, they can be taken later even if they are talented.

The list of positions that are shelved are as follows UNLESS they are once in a lifetime prospects ala. Adrian Peterson, Ray Lewis, Ray Guy, Ed Reed etc.

ILB
RB
G
RT
TE
FB
S
P
K

These positions, unless once in a generation type players, should never be considered a priority over the positions stated before. If two prospects are rated equally, for example, a guard prospect and a WR prospect, you have to take the WR.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

Annnndddd now we see where you were going with that selection lol

Justin Smith at guard is a hole. Guy notoriously just wants to collect paychecks after he got his bell rung

And as much as Fisher has helped his draft stock, he's still not a top 10 worthy pick. But even if he was, and we followed your logic, he'll be a top 10 right tackle trying to battle with a guy that we could have not resigned a contract with.

In essence, an absolute waste of a top 10 pick

BPA doesn't just mean guys who are talented, value of position comes into play

QB
LT
DE
DT
OLB
CB
WR

Should realistically be the only positions taken in the first round and in an ideal world, prioritized in that exact order. Now that's not to say that any QB should be taken over a DE, which is when talent or "BPA" is taken into account.

If you take your big board of players, say, Mike Mayock's bigboard, you prioritize players based on talent. You then shelve players that are not positions you see above, they can be taken later even if they are talented.

The list of positions that are shelved are as follows UNLESS they are once in a lifetime prospects ala. Adrian Peterson, Ray Lewis, Ray Guy, Ed Reed etc.

ILB
RB
G
RT
TE
FB
S
P
K

These positions, unless once in a generation type players, should never be considered a priority over the positions stated before. If two prospects are rated equally, for example, a guard prospect and a WR prospect, you have to take the WR.

Before i give my retort, let me congratulate for having a solid plan. Now to my retort.

I do not consider WR and CB premium positions so i have an issue drafting them in the 1st round. Now a player like Revis would be tempting to me as would a player like Megatron. The problem i have with them is the situation the Jets now have with Revis and the situation the Cardinals find themselves in with Fitzgerald nad the Lions with Megatron. You can't pay these players the type of money that they're making a field a solid team.

That type of Money is reserved for Premium position players. For me, those positions are:

QB
LT
OC

NT
DE / 43
OLB /34

In this coming draft the best available player at 9:

A NT
A LT

We have 2 NTs on the team and no OLmen to speak of so who should i pick.

[Beerfish]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

Before i give my retort, let me congratulate for having a solid plan. Now to my retort.

I do not consider WR and CB premium positions so i have an issue drafting them in the 1st round. Now a player like Revis would be tempting to me as would a player like Megatron. The problem i have with them is the situation the Jets now have with Revis and the situation the Cardinals find themselves in with Fitzgerald nad the Lions with Megatron. You can't pay these players the type of money that they're making a field a solid team.

That type of Money is reserved for Premium position players. For me, those positions are:

QB
LT
OC

NT
DE / 43
OLB /34

In this coming draft the best available player at 9:

A NT
A LT

We have 2 NTs on the team and no OLmen to speak of so who should i pick.

Your draft is perfectly fine for how you value positions and poor for how others value them thus there will not be consensus. You do not value CB or WR as 1st round premium positions but you do value RT as a premium position. There will be no agreement on that point alone.

As for no olineman comment. We have a starting LT, we have a starting centre, we have a RT who was serviceable in his 1st year starting and we have two guards who people assume are as good as gone, Slauson could be resigned, Moore who knows. We do need to add to the oline but my mantra is to match need with talent if possible with your 1st rounder. If you are just looking at holes on team I'd say that olb is as bad if not worse than Oline.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by Beerfish

Your draft is perfectly fine for how you value positions and poor for how others value them thus there will not be consensus. You do not value CB or WR as 1st round premium positions but you do value RT as a premium position. There will be no agreement on that point alone.

As for no olineman comment. We have a starting LT, we have a starting centre, we have a RT who was serviceable in his 1st year starting and we have two guards who people assume are as good as gone, Slauson could be resigned, Moore who knows. We do need to add to the oline but my mantra is to match need with talent if possible with your 1st rounder. If you are just looking at holes on team I'd say that olb is as bad if not worse than Oline.

Yes i am, but also value as it relates to need on the team at a premium position . I get that other fans will have a different opinion as to what constitutes a premium position on a football team and that is fine.

The fact that we have a LT on the team should not preclude us from taking another especially if that player can be move to the RT position and improve the team now and in the future.There's no certainty that the Jets will or can resign any of the 3 OLmen who made up the unit from last year that are currently free agents.

Lastly, if you can upgrade those positions with players that will cost less, why even bother resigning them.The Jets are not going to find the type of players that will transformed this team into what the fans want in 1 draft. Even if they did, it is propably not going to happen in their 1st yr.

[Beerfish]

You know who patrols RT on most teams? Either a guy picked later in the draft or a failed LT.

Starting RTs for NFL teams:

1st rnd: 5
2nd rnd: 7
3rd rnd: 1
4th rnd: 3
5th rnd: 4
6th rnd: 3
7th rnd: 3
udfa: 6

Most of the 1st rounders were players selected hoping they were LT's but they ended up being RT's because they couldn't do the job at LT.

Micheal Oher (23), Andre Smith (6), Cosder Cherilus (17), Bryan Bulaga (23), Anthony Davis (11)

Davis will probably be a LT one day. You could argue that both Bulaga and Cherilus were drafted to be RT's.

RT is not a premium position when other talent is on the board.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by Beerfish

You know who patrols RT on most teams? Either a guy picked later in the draft or a failed LT.

Starting RTs for NFL teams:

1st rnd: 5
2nd rnd: 7
3rd rnd: 1
4th rnd: 3
5th rnd: 4
6th rnd: 3
7th rnd: 3
udfa: 6

Most of the 1st rounders were players selected hoping they were LT's but they ended up being RT's because they couldn't do the job at LT.

Micheal Oher (23), Andre Smith (6), Cosder Cherilus (17), Bryan Bulaga (23), Anthony Davis (11)

Davis will probably be a LT one day. You could argue that both Bulaga and Cherilus were drafted to be RT's.

RT is not a premium position when other talent is on the board.

Agreed, but then what happens if u do your homework find a good prospect and develop him at RT while your Vet Brick holds down the fort until his contract comes up.
Atleast you have an option when that happens or should Brick gets hurt. By the way, who's the backup at LT if Brick should get injured.

I am drafting a LT, not a RT .