Off Season Strategy

[petejet]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

When an injury happens and the team goes into the tank it isn't a planned strategy from the top. Definitely not the same thing. The Jets D is too good for the team to have a 2 win season. That type of strategy backfires and you get slammed with a crap season to watch and stuck with nothing in the draft. Also losing begets losing. When a franchise stinks it up the players can get complacent and a culture of losing can set in. I'm against it.

What Jet's D? Who is returning? Who is not? Suck for Luck. It happened. Are you telling me that a retired Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter was the best they could do at QB? Seems to me they just weren't trying.

[TJ]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

Going into a season with Sanchez or GMac or Moore, or and FA scrub at QB is absolutely tanking the season. I like Flynn because he seems like a high upside guy that is ready to start. If there is a rookie QB that has that type of potential by all means lets get him. If Geno drops to us at the 9th pick and the FO loves him then I will be on board. My point is that we will go into this season with hope one way or the other. My preference is Flynn right now but either way something needs to get done at the QB spot.

Rebuilding isn't tanking. We need to rebuild the right way this time

[johnnysd]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

Going into a season with Sanchez or GMac or Moore, or and FA scrub at QB is absolutely tanking the season. I like Flynn because he seems like a high upside guy that is ready to start. If there is a rookie QB that has that type of potential by all means lets get him. If Geno drops to us at the 9th pick and the FO loves him then I will be on board. My point is that we will go into this season with hope one way or the other. My preference is Flynn right now but either way something needs to get done at the QB spot.

People seem to forget how well Flynn played in the pre-season. He did nothing to lose the job to Wilson, Wilson was just special.

When Idzik was interviewed on SNY he let out a pretty nervous laugh when asked about Flynn. I think he is already thinking in this direction.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by johnnysd

People seem to forget how well Flynn played in the pre-season. He did nothing to lose the job to Wilson, Wilson was just special.

When Idzik was interviewed on SNY he let out a pretty nervous laugh when asked about Flynn. I think he is already thinking in this direction.

Agreed, its only preseson but he was very accurate which is key in MM offense.

Plus he is a very good athlete and moves well in the pocket, which we need for WCO rollouts etc.

[patman]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Look, I know you are a salary cap expert and all, but Im not throwing sh*t at the wall here so slow down with the criticism.

First off, seattle has come out and said they are looking for a read-option QB as wilsons backup so that they can keep the offense the same if he goes down....flynn doesnt fit that bill.

Second the have already been linked to joe webb, who would be the perfect backup behind wilson and who the vikings are looking to move for a late round pick....another move that is completely logical.

Seattle has approximately $13+ in cap room without cutting anyone so taking a "hit" is far from crippling if they can add another piece to a team they obviously believe can compete for a championship.

They also have some holes along the defensive line with clemons injury, so an additional pick helps them a lot more then an unhappy matt flynn does sitting on the sideline or even asking for a trade in the papers.

Lastly, as you know Idzik came from there and relationships when working this stuff out are just as important as the pieces. Seattle wouldnt be trading him within the division or even within the NFC.

I really don't mean to be a Dick, sorry if I was.

First, Seattle IMO does not run a read option like in Carolina or DC. Wilson is more like a young Randal Cunningham,or Tarkenton, he will move out of the pocket, throw on the run and take off if there is an opening. I don't even see him doing a lot of QB draws. I don't see any toss sweeps- nothing like that. Definetly no runs with Llynch trailing to take a pitch.

Flynn is not a statue like Brady, Rivers or Manning. he is an Athletic QB. My feelings are just that the seahawks seen something in him to give him 10 mill guaranteed. his cap hit this year is 6.5 with 4 mill of unamortized bonus. If they trade him they will save 2.5 mill on the cap, but what will the new back up make. Do they want to trust their playoff hopes on a rookie if Wilson goes down for a couple of games? What backup is more athletic than Flynn, Smith is but he will want even more money. Chase Daniels is about the only guy that is as athletic as Flynn, unless they want to sign a ****bird like Young and put him in the lockerroom.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by petejet

What Jet's D? Who is returning? Who is not? Suck for Luck. It happened. Are you telling me that a retired Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter was the best they could do at QB? Seems to me they just weren't trying.

Indy was in a weird situation. It wasn't clear what was happening with Peyton. He was supposed to play in 2011. People even drafted the guy in early Fantasy Football drafts. This isn't the same thing. They didn't go into that season thinking they would suck for Luck.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by TJ

Rebuilding isn't tanking. We need to rebuild the right way this time

I'm all for rebuilding the right way. That however does not entail going into a season with no one at QB. To me rebuilding is accomplished in the offseason. Trade down, get additional picks etc. But the FO needs to put a contender on the field every season. Sanchez is finished. We have no viable starting QB. As a fan that is the worst situation to be in. Flynn is a natural fit in the WCO and the Izdik Seattle connection can't be ignored. This just makes sense to me. Get Flynn via trade then use the draft to grab Baps at positions of need.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by patman

I really don't mean to be a Dick, sorry if I was.

First, Seattle IMO does not run a read option like in Carolina or DC. Wilson is more like a young Randal Cunningham,or Tarkenton, he will move out of the pocket, throw on the run and take off if there is an opening. I don't even see him doing a lot of QB draws. I don't see any toss sweeps- nothing like that. Definetly no runs with Llynch trailing to take a pitch.

Flynn is not a statue like Brady, Rivers or Manning. he is an Athletic QB. My feelings are just that the seahawks seen something in him to give him 10 mill guaranteed. his cap hit this year is 6.5 with 4 mill of unamortized bonus. If they trade him they will save 2.5 mill on the cap, but what will the new back up make. Do they want to trust their playoff hopes on a rookie if Wilson goes down for a couple of games? What backup is more athletic than Flynn, Smith is but he will want even more money. Chase Daniels is about the only guy that is as athletic as Flynn, unless they want to sign a ****bird like Young and put him in the lockerroom.

Trading Flynn gets Seattle a draft pick and frees up cap space for them both this season and moreso for 2014. They have already basically come out and said that they are going to try to trade the guy. Specifically they said they want a backup with a more similar skill set to Wilson. This is not speculation anymore. He will be traded. The only question is who wants him and how much do they give up for him. I see Arizona as the primary competitor for his services but there are a few teams that need a QB that may be interested. Smith and Flynn will most likely be starters somewhere next season.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by patman

I really don't mean to be a Dick, sorry if I was.

First, Seattle IMO does not run a read option like in Carolina or DC. Wilson is more like a young Randal Cunningham,or Tarkenton, he will move out of the pocket, throw on the run and take off if there is an opening. I don't even see him doing a lot of QB draws. I don't see any toss sweeps- nothing like that. Definetly no runs with Llynch trailing to take a pitch.

Flynn is not a statue like Brady, Rivers or Manning. he is an Athletic QB. My feelings are just that the seahawks seen something in him to give him 10 mill guaranteed. his cap hit this year is 6.5 with 4 mill of unamortized bonus. If they trade him they will save 2.5 mill on the cap, but what will the new back up make. Do they want to trust their playoff hopes on a rookie if Wilson goes down for a couple of games? What backup is more athletic than Flynn, Smith is but he will want even more money. Chase Daniels is about the only guy that is as athletic as Flynn, unless they want to sign a ****bird like Young and put him in the lockerroom.

No problem - dont want to be overly argumentative either.

I like flynn a LOT and a big reason is his athleticism like you mention, and if you see some of his highlights he has run some mini-read option plays and operated out of shotgun/pistol formations.

The problem for seattle is that he gets paid a lot of money to be a backup and has no reason at all to renegotiate. More importantly though, and this is just my opinion, but it seems like they want to do right by him and let him have the opportunity to start somewhere. And if they can get a servicable backup, save money and get a draft pick its a good overall move.

[Sourceworx]

Originally Posted by patman

I really don't mean to be a Dick, sorry if I was.

First, Seattle IMO does not run a read option like in Carolina or DC. Wilson is more like a young Randal Cunningham,or Tarkenton, he will move out of the pocket, throw on the run and take off if there is an opening. I don't even see him doing a lot of QB draws. I don't see any toss sweeps- nothing like that. Definetly no runs with Llynch trailing to take a pitch.

When I see Wilson, I see Fran Tarkenton all the way. It's pretty scary how much he plays like him.

[RMJK]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

No problem - dont want to be overly argumentative either.

I like flynn a LOT and a big reason is his athleticism like you mention, and if you see some of his highlights he has run some mini-read option plays and operated out of shotgun/pistol formations.

The problem for seattle is that he gets paid a lot of money to be a backup and has no reason at all to renegotiate. More importantly though, and this is just my opinion, but it seems like they want to do right by him and let him have the opportunity to start somewhere. And if they can get a servicable backup, save money and get a draft pick its a good overall move.

We have have 2 QBs for them McElroy and Sanchez to include in the deal.

[56mehl56]

Originally Posted by johnnysd

People seem to forget how well Flynn played in the pre-season. He did nothing to lose the job to Wilson, Wilson was just special.

When Idzik was interviewed on SNY he let out a pretty nervous laugh when asked about Flynn. I think he is already thinking in this direction.

Yes just like people forget how well David Clowney played in the preseason for the Jets. Preseason means nothing and 1 game in a high powered GB offense against a pitiful Lions secondary means nothing as well. Flynn is not the answer.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

Yes just like people forget how well David Clowney played in the preseason for the Jets. Preseason means nothing and 1 game in a high powered GB offense against a pitiful Lions secondary means nothing as well. Flynn is not the answer.

When you are listing the things that "mean nothing" dont forget flynns performance vs New England when he had 3 tds even when he was getting pummeled all game (5 sacks). Or the fact that GB has a very good history of developing their second string QBs (matt hasselbeck).

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

Yes just like people forget how well David Clowney played in the preseason for the Jets. Preseason means nothing and 1 game in a high powered GB offense against a pitiful Lions secondary means nothing as well. Flynn is not the answer.

I'm confused. If playing well in regular season games means nothing and playing well in preseason games means nothing then how did you come to the conclusion that "Flynn is not the answer?". Are you extrapolating that, since Clowney played well in pre-season but sucked in the regular season, then Flynn playing well in preseason means he will suck in the regular season? Do you have some other reasoning to say that Flynn is not the answer.

[56mehl56]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

I'm confused. If playing well in regular season games means nothing and playing well in preseason games means nothing then how did you come to the conclusion that "Flynn is not the answer?". Are you extrapolating that, since Clowney played well in pre-season but sucked in the regular season, then Flynn playing well in preseason means he will suck in the regular season? Do you have some other reasoning to say that Flynn is not the answer.

Yes, as an avid LSU fan I watched almost everyone of Flynn's games in college. He couldn't beat out the great Marcus Randell or the bust Jamarcus Russell and only saw the field when Russell was injured or left in 2007 for the draft. Flynn's stock was elevated solely by that 1 game against the Lions. He is not starting material just ask Joe Philbin or Pete Carroll. I can see why people are clamoring to replace Sanchez ( although I believe for unfounded reasons entirely) , I just can't see why they want to replace him with a question mark who's never been good enough to start anywhere he went besides HS. It would take 3 weeks for the fanbase to turn on him , if we're going to upgrade the position , then upgrade it , don't just throw **** at the wall and hope it sticks.

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

Yes, as an avid LSU fan I watched almost everyone of Flynn's games in college. He couldn't beat out the great Marcus Randell or the bust Jamarcus Russell and only saw the field when Russell was injured or left in 2007 for the draft. Flynn's stock was elevated solely by that 1 game against the Lions. He is not starting material just ask Joe Philbin or Pete Carroll. I can see why people are clamoring to replace Sanchez ( although I believe for unfounded reasons entirely) , I just can't see why they want to replace him with a question mark who's never been good enough to start anywhere he went besides HS. It would take 3 weeks for the fanbase to turn on him , if we're going to upgrade the position , then upgrade it , don't just throw **** at the wall and hope it sticks.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

Yes, as an avid LSU fan I watched almost everyone of Flynn's games in college. He couldn't beat out the great Marcus Randell or the bust Jamarcus Russell and only saw the field when Russell was injured or left in 2007 for the draft. Flynn's stock was elevated solely by that 1 game against the Lions. He is not starting material just ask Joe Philbin or Pete Carroll. I can see why people are clamoring to replace Sanchez ( although I believe for unfounded reasons entirely) , I just can't see why they want to replace him with a question mark who's never been good enough to start anywhere he went besides HS. It would take 3 weeks for the fanbase to turn on him , if we're going to upgrade the position , then upgrade it , don't just throw **** at the wall and hope it sticks.

You are saying that people wanting to replace Sanchez is unfounded? I never saw Flynn play in College so I can't speak to his abilities then but I've watched Sanchez for 4 years. He is not a starting caliber QB. He is a head case and a butt fumbler. I'd like to replace him with anyone. Flynn played well in his one start that I watched. Granted he may be the next Scott Mitchell but at the cost of a 4th round draft pick the risk reward seems worthwhile to me. The alternative is a guy like Taylor Bray or EJ Manuel in the 3rd or 4th round of the draft. I don't see how those guys are more NFL ready or have higer upside then Flynn but if they are drafted and start I will root for them and hope for the best.

[shuler82]

If Alex Smith becomes a FA, the Jets wont be able to afford him.

[norm428]

I don't see why Flynn would cost more than a 6th or 7th round pick. When he was a FA, he didn't generate much interest. He makes a lot of money for a backup and Seattle came out and said they would trade him which hurts their leverage. He didn't do anything to raise his value this year. Why would teams that could have signed him as a FA, now give up a decent draft pick? I hope we trade down a few times, pick up some extra picks and flip a late pick for Flynn. I wouldn't give up more than a 6.

[56mehl56]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

You are saying that people wanting to replace Sanchez is unfounded? I never saw Flynn play in College so I can't speak to his abilities then but I've watched Sanchez for 4 years. He is not a starting caliber QB. He is a head case and a butt fumbler. I'd like to replace him with anyone. Flynn played well in his one start that I watched. Granted he may be the next Scott Mitchell but at the cost of a 4th round draft pick the risk reward seems worthwhile to me. The alternative is a guy like Taylor Bray or EJ Manuel in the 3rd or 4th round of the draft. I don't see how those guys are more NFL ready or have higer upside then Flynn but if they are drafted and start I will root for them and hope for the best.

IMO yes I think its unfounded to want to replace Sanchez. The problem is people here get too focused on 1 player who becomes the lightning rod.
Yes, I understand QB is the most critical position on the team but you can't look at a QB's performance without assessing the total picture. And saying he's a headcase and butt fumbler is not evaluating at all its just a knee jerk reaction to the media circus that surrounds the team. If that same play happened to any other QB it would have made the bloopers & lowlights but it would have been forgotten already. Our fanbase and media love to bathe in self pity rehashing one insiginifcant play in a season of football.

I've said this ad nauseum in the recent weeks, but here goes again , Sanchez has never played in an offensive system that could utilize his talents or was was never utilized in a way that could showcase his talents. Instead in years 1&2 he was relegated to a game manager when Rex had the horses and Oline to run G&P. In years 3 and 4 due to injuries and overall neglect to the offensive side of the ball Sanchez not only got the inefficient G&P system forced down his throat , he also took a pounding as his Oline and weapons around him vaporized. He's had less offensive support and less to work with than any QB in the league including Blaine Gabbert ,yet people here are so quick to make him the scapegoat.

Can he ever be the QB worthy of the #5 pick in the draft - maybe not, but by the Jets bringing in Mornhinweg they at least will be able to evaluate him in an offense that's not rooted in the leather helmet era. He's under contract , give him some weapons , give him the new OC and a modern era offenisve scheme to work with and maybe he might not be as bad as many here vehemently know.

Bringing in another question mark does nothing for the long term prospects of the team . If you want to replace Sanchez then do it right, draft and develop a QB who's the right fit for the offensive system you want to run. Otherwsie wait until the cap situation is cleared and attempt to trade for a real starting caliber QB.