Aroid Linked to PED's As Recently as 2012

[Tucker134]

Originally Posted by JetPotato

I still say the Yanks best course of action when he gets back is to keep slipping roids into ARod's Cheerios.

End result : he either starts hitting again or he gets caught during testing. I think two strikes and you're out, forever.

Win-Win

can they send him to the minors, or do you think he has a clause giving him the right to refuse a demotion like that POS Ollie Perez did tot he Mets??

[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by Tucker134

can they send him to the minors, or do you think he has a clause giving him the right to refuse a demotion like that POS Ollie Perez did tot he Mets??

ARod could reject a demotion. I wouldn't want him down there anyway, wouldn't be a good example for the young guys. He'd likely struggle down there anyway.

[chirorob]

Originally Posted by Scott Dierking

So the Yankees want to get out of a contract because AROD used PEDs?

Would they also forfeit their 2009 championship, as they very well may have been beneficiary of said player under PEDs?

Didn't think so.

Caveat emptor.

Yes, they are the only team in the last 20 years who won a championship with players using PEDs.

[SMC]

Hopefully the Yanks find a way to get out of the contract, which is the worst ever for a team in sports history. Will be hard to do, but we'll see.

[SMC]

Originally Posted by Scott Dierking

So the Yankees want to get out of a contract because AROD used PEDs?

Would they also forfeit their 2009 championship, as they very well may have been beneficiary of said player under PEDs?

Didn't think so.

Caveat emptor.

Actually, it's not because he took PEDs. That can't be the grounds to claim fraudulent inducement in order to get out of a contract.

It will be whether he lied to them about it during the negotiations for the extension. That's a HUGE difference.

Remember, him breaking the all time HR record was contemplated in the new deal. The Yanks and ARod wanted to capitilize on what they both believed would be an historic chase. That's all gone now. They will have to look at all the emails, correspondence exchanged during the negotiations to determine if there are legal grounds to claim fraudulent inducement rather than a breach of contract. A breach won't do the Yanks any good.

[petejet]

Originally Posted by Tucker134

Rodriguez Drug Case May Blunt Potential Yankees’ Insurance Claim
2013-01-31 20:04:21.553 GMT


By Erik Matuszewski
Jan. 31 (Bloomberg) -- The New York Yankees’ chances of recouping any of the remaining $114 million owed to Alex Rodriguez through an insurance claim may be scuttled by a typical policy clause prohibiting the use of banned drugs.
Rodriguez, 37, could miss the Major League Baseball season after undergoing hip surgery and his future with the Yankees is in question after a Florida newspaper report that the three-time American League Most Valuable Player was doping as recently as last season. Rodriguez, who acknowledged in 2009 using performance-enhancing drugs from 2001 to 2003, said the Jan. 29 report in the Miami New Times isn’t true.
The New York Daily News and the New York Post said this week that the Yankees are looking for a way out of the record
$275 million, 10-year contract Rodriguez signed after the 2007 season. That might be impossible through an insurance claim, according to an industry official who’s worked on sports policies for Lance Armstrong, Michael Jordan and Pete Sampras.
“We’ve all heard the rumors about potential use of drugs and typically that is an exclusion that you see most every time in a policy,” Mike Price, the founder of Atlanta-based Entertainment & Sports Insurance eXperts, said in a telephone interview today. “If it’s proven the individual took illegal drugs during that time, it voids the insurance.”
Rodriguez acknowledged doping while with the Texas Rangers
14 months after signing his current contract with the Yankees.
He said he stopped using a banned substance in 2003 and hasn’t taken it since. MLB is now probing the New Times report that links Rodriguez to Biogenesis, an anti-aging clinic in Miami that closed last month. The weekly newspaper acquired company records that it said showed Rodriguez paid for banned products, including human growth hormone, and mentions his name on a patient list through last season.

Next Step

The Yankees probably will await MLB’s findings before deciding their next action with Rodriguez, though their options may be limited. Possible options include a settlement with Rodriguez or the filing of an insurance claim if the hip injury forces his retirement and prevents him from playing professional baseball again.
Yankees President Randy Levine said in an e-mail that the team doesn’t disclose which company insures the team’s contracts. The Yankees said in a statement this week that they supported baseball’s antidrug policies and would refrain from comment related to the New Times report until the MLB investigation is complete.
When Rodriguez had his $252 million contract with the Texas Rangers, Warren Buffett said in Berkshire Hathaway Inc.’s 2000 annual report that his company’s policy protecting the ballclub from the possibility of a career-ending injury probably would set a record for disability insurance.

Multilayer Protection

Price, the insurance executive, said there may be multiple carriers for a contract the size of Rodriguez’s, with many layers of coverage in place. Such an insurance policy would typically reimburse up to 66.6 percent of the amount of a star athlete’s contract. In 2001, the Baltimore Orioles got money back after a degenerative hip injury forced outfielder Albert Belle to retire two years into a five-year, $65 million contract.
Terry Michelitch, executive vice president at Willis Group Holdings Plc, the third-largest insurance broker, said teams usually take out a temporary total disability policy or a permanent total disability policy on an athlete’s contract.
“My hunch is that they have a PTD policy,” Michelitch said of the Yankees. “Just because a lot of folks end up going that direction, and with somebody at his age as well. That’s the other compounding factor. With a lot of pre-existing conditions, that’s going to push them more toward a PTD.”

Injury Proof

To get back any of the salary Rodriguez is owned, there would have to be proof of a career-ending injury with a permanent total disability policy.
In Rodriguez’s situation, the claim could be put into motion if team doctors determine that he’s not going to be able to play again following the Jan. 16 hip surgery, Price said.
Those findings would then be given to the insurance carrier, who would appoint a doctor to review the information and possibly call for new tests. If the carrier’s doctor agrees with the original findings, the claim would go forward. If there’s a disagreement, it would go to arbitration with an independent third doctor.
“The definition says the player must be injured past the hope or the expectation of ever again engaging in their occupation,” Price said. “He has to be permanently disabled and, in the eyes of the insurance carrier, be injured beyond returning to playing professional baseball again.”

No Connection

Rodriguez’s recent decline in production wouldn’t be a factor in any insurance outcome.
After 13 consecutive years with at least 30 home runs and 100 runs batted in, Rodriguez’s numbers have tailed off in New York amid injuries the past two seasons. He batted .272 with 18 home runs and 57 RBI over 122 games in 2012, when he became the overpaid symbol of the Yankees’ postseason shortcomings.
Rodriguez, who ranks fifth in MLB history with 647 homers, went 3-for-25 in the playoffs with 12 strikeouts. He was 0-for-
19 against right-handed pitchers and was benched for the final two games of the Yankees’ playoff series against Detroit.
“The insurance contract doesn’t cover loss of skill,”
Price said.
It may all be rendered moot if MLB’s investigation turns up evidence that Rodriguez continued to use performance-enhancing drugs during his current contract.
“I don’t know the terms of the contract, I can just tell you that working with many athletes for 20 years, typically the contract will include an exclusion for illegal use of drugs,”
Price said. “In that case, they’re not getting anything back.”

For Related News and Information:
Major League Baseball news: NI MLB <GO>
Top Sports Stories: USPO <GO>

The whole premise of your hate filled agenda against the Yankees is that ARod took illegal drugs. Steroids, PED's, etc are not illegal drugs. They are substances banned by baseball. BIG difference. Add in that doctors have already stated Arod's injuries are not PED related. The burden is on the insurance company to prove the injury is PED related if they want to void the inusrance.

[Tucker134]

Originally Posted by petejet

The whole premise of your hate filled agenda against the Yankees is that ARod took illegal drugs. Steroids, PED's, etc are not illegal drugs. They are substances banned by baseball. BIG difference. Add in that doctors have already stated Arod's injuries are not PED related. The burden is on the insurance company to prove the injury is PED related if they want to void the inusrance.

you got me all wrong, Pete....this Arod dilemna is fascinating stuff. I don't hate these Yankees at all- they actually have a team of mostly good guys now...I despised their 200mm+ payroll full of d**sh's from 3-5 years ago

[Ven0m]

Originally Posted by Tucker134

can they send him to the minors, or do you think he has a clause giving him the right to refuse a demotion like that POS Ollie Perez did tot he Mets??

Any player with that much service time can reject any assignment to the minors (I believe it's 5 years service time). It's not a 'contract clause' issue, it's a right earned under the CBA. He's not going to the minors.

It will be whether he lied to them about it during the negotiations for the extension. That's a HUGE difference.

Remember, him breaking the all time HR record was contemplated in the new deal. The Yanks and ARod wanted to capitilize on what they both believed would be an historic chase. That's all gone now. They will have to look at all the emails, correspondence exchanged during the negotiations to determine if there are legal grounds to claim fraudulent inducement rather than a breach of contract. A breach won't do the Yanks any good.

From a legal standpoint, it makes zero difference.

Besides, that argument is undermined by the fact that you didn't pursue any action the first time he admitted to PED use.

The whole premise of your hate filled agenda against the Yankees is that ARod took illegal drugs. Steroids, PED's, etc are not illegal drugs. They are substances banned by baseball. BIG difference. Add in that doctors have already stated Arod's injuries are not PED related. The burden is on the insurance company to prove the injury is PED related if they want to void the inusrance.

Or.....they could just have a doctor willing to testify that he's medically able to play. Which he will be, even if the guy that is on the field isn't particularly good or useful.

[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by SMC

Hopefully the Yanks find a way to get out of the contract, which is the worst ever for a team in sports history. Will be hard to do, but we'll see.

I actually still think that DiPietro contract is worse. What was it, 20 years? Bonilla was worse too.

[Scott Dierking]

Originally Posted by chirorob

Yes, they are the only team in the last 20 years who won a championship with players using PEDs.

There are the only team that has won a championship with a possible roider, he then may try to get out of the contract because of use of roids.

Can't have it both ways.

[Scott Dierking]

Originally Posted by SMC

Actually, it's not because he took PEDs. That can't be the grounds to claim fraudulent inducement in order to get out of a contract.

It will be whether he lied to them about it during the negotiations for the extension. That's a HUGE difference.

Remember, him breaking the all time HR record was contemplated in the new deal. The Yanks and ARod wanted to capitilize on what they both believed would be an historic chase. That's all gone now. They will have to look at all the emails, correspondence exchanged during the negotiations to determine if there are legal grounds to claim fraudulent inducement rather than a breach of contract. A breach won't do the Yanks any good.

His breaking the possible HR record had clauses for each milestone reached.

If the Yankees thought that he possibly "used", they should have included a clause in the contract. Not just asked him.

You really think they sent e-mails, asking him if he was on PEDs?

[Scott Dierking]

Originally Posted by JetPotato

I actually still think that DiPietro contract is worse. What was it, 20 years? Bonilla was worse too.

Bonillas TOTAL contract was worth just slightly more than one year on Arods.

It was still a horrible contract.

Mike Hampton's may have been one of the worst with the Rockies. Denny Neagles is up there too along with AJ Burnetts

[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by Scott Dierking

Bonillas TOTAL contract was worth just slightly more than one year on Arods.

It was still a horrible contract.

Mike Hampton's may have been one of the worst with the Rockies. Denny Neagles is up there too along with AJ Burnetts

The money is relative to the time. Regardless, length of contract matters too, and performance of the player. Aren't they still paying Bobby Bo?

[SMC]

Originally Posted by Scott Dierking

His breaking the possible HR record had clauses for each milestone reached.

If the Yankees thought that he possibly "used", they should have included a clause in the contract. Not just asked him.

You really think they sent e-mails, asking him if he was on PEDs?

You have to see the discussions in the emails concerning the drafting of the contract. Thats standard procedure when looking at fraudukent inducement claims. Only breach of contract claims are limited to the terms of the contract and thats why the Yanks cant claim ARod breached the contract.

[SMC]

Originally Posted by Ven0m

Any player with that much service time can reject any assignment to the minors (I believe it's 5 years service time). It's not a 'contract clause' issue, it's a right earned under the CBA. He's not going to the minors.



From a legal standpoint, it makes zero difference.

Besides, that argument is undermined by the fact that you didn't pursue any action the first time he admitted to PED use.



Or.....they could just have a doctor willing to testify that he's medically able to play. Which he will be, even if the guy that is on the field isn't particularly good or useful.

Actually from a legal standpoint it makes a lot of sense.

And, no, the Yanks had no grounds to go after ARod when he admitted PED use because that concerned actions prior to the extension and his term of service with the Yanks.

[FF2®]

Originally Posted by chirorob

Yes, they are the only team in the last 20 years who won a championship with players using PEDs.

The old "everybody did it" excuse.

Where have I head that one before?

[chirorob]

Originally Posted by Scott Dierking

There are the only team that has won a championship with a possible roider, he then may try to get out of the contract because of use of roids.

Can't have it both ways.

We are arguing about different things. I don't think they can get out of it for the use of PED's. I think they signed the stupid deal, and are stuck with it, and I think it is way worse then Bonilla's just for the fact they gave a 31 year old a 10 year deal, when no one was going to offer anywhere near that.

However, I have a problem with people saying the only reason the Yankees won the WS is that they had players taking PEDs. Every team had players doing that in 99. Just like every team had players doing that in the late 80's into the 90s.

I'm not trying to have it both ways, I think they are stuck, unless the hip truly is a career ending injury, in which case they can get some of the insurance money back.

[chirorob]

Originally Posted by FF2®

The old "everybody did it" excuse.

Where have I head that one before?

I'm not excusing the cheating, and at this point I don't care that much about who took PEDs. I have said I think about 80% of MLB was taking. I just said to say the Yankees WS win is tainted by that is silly. Boston didn't have any guys taking?

Now, if you want to say that championship was bought, so be it. As a fan, that is the WS team I cheered the least for.

If you want to say ARod is a moron for still cheating, no argument. If you want to say ARod won't get into the HOF for it, no argument. If you want to say the Yanks are stuck with the deal they signed, no argument.

[adb280z]

Originally Posted by JetPotato

Aren't they still paying Bobby Bo?

Yes, they bought his last year of his contract ($5.9 Million) and stretched the payments over 25 years.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...108198050.html

[Buster]

I would be shocked if any evidence surfaces that allows the Yankees to void Arod's contract

But ya never know