Joe Flacco seeking to be highest paid QB in football

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

Just like Eli was hands-down the best QB in the league as of last year, right? How'd that work out this season? Flacco has moved into Eli/Ben territory, but he's not on par with the elites. It will be good news for other AFC teams if/when Flacco does get his gigantic cap-hogging payday. As others have noted, the Ravens gambled on the Flacco contract situation and they're going to have to vastly overpay him.

Exactly. Everyone thought Eli's 2011 playoff run would translate into an elite 2012 regular season, but Eli quickly reverted back to career norms. Above average player, but nothing special. Expect the same from Flacco. If Flacco were capable of 4 game stretches like this on a more regular basis, he would have done so at some point in his previous 90 career games. Guy just got hot and his WRs played out of their minds, either getting behind the secondary (Smith, Jones) or making tough catch after tough catch (Boldin).

Flacco is a good player, but those expecting him to efficiently throw 4000+ yards and 40 TDs next season are going to be sorely disappointed.

[PMarsico9]

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

Exactly. Everyone thought Eli's 2011 playoff run would translate into an elite 2012 regular season, but Eli quickly reverted back to career norms. Above average player, but nothing special. Expect the same from Flacco. If Flacco were capable of 4 game stretches like this on a more regular basis, he would have done so at some point in his previous 90 career games. Guy just got hot and his WRs played out of their minds, either getting behind the secondary (Smith, Jones) or making tough catch after tough catch (Boldin).

Flacco is a good player, but those expecting him to efficiently throw 4000+ yards and 40 TDs next season are going to be sorely disappointed.

OK well then let's try it this way:

Flacco has effectively one of the top 3 RB's in Football. Pro-Bowlers at both tackle positions, Boldin, one of the most productive Wideouts since he was drafted in the NFL, Torrey Smith an undeniable talent.

I don't think Nicks or Cruz are even in the same ballpark with Smith and neither has the career productivity that Boldin has had.

While the Giants O-line is OK (Snee is very good), it's not close to the Ravens.

Lastly, you get to Rice. Rice is still the key to the Ravens, not Flacco. Cam Cameron was fired not just because his blocking schemes on passing plays stunk, but because he simply was not getting Rice the touches he should have every game. Baltimore's record when Rice gets (don't quote me on this) 25+ touches is incredible.

I guarantee you that when Flacco has to throw the ball 40 plus times a game it's not as good.

On the flip side, Eli, again, is the best weapon on the Giants offense.

If you break it down: Eli elevates people around him to seem awesome. Flacco complements guys who largely are awesome.

Give Eli Boldin, Rice, and Smith and see what happens.

[King P]

Flacco is going to get paid but I think people need to stop the "Is Flacco Elite?" nonsense. This year shows that winning a ring doesn't automatically make you an elite QB. Flacco just didn't mess up and got extremely lucky on some really poor throws (the deep bomb in the Denver game and the Jones throw in the Superbowl come to mind). He's an elite game manager and a solid QB but you can't honestly say he's now one of the top tier QB's in the game.

Honestly, I don't even think he's better than Tony Romo.

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by King P

Flacco is going to get paid but I think people need to stop the "Is Flacco Elite?" nonsense. This year shows that winning a ring doesn't automatically make you an elite QB. Flacco just didn't mess up and got extremely lucky on some really poor throws (the deep bomb in the Denver game and the Jones throw in the Superbowl come to mind). He's an elite game manager and a solid QB but you can't honestly say he's now one of the top tier QB's in the game.

Honestly, I don't even think he's better than Tony Romo.

Stop. Flacco is absolutely better than Romo. Quote all the fantasy stats all you want Romo plays in a pass happy offense - often from behind - with Austin, Bryant and Witten to throw to. Romo cannot finish a game to save his life he is the most unclutch player I have ever seen.

Flacco's not at Manning, Brady level yet but he is top 10 and better than the Matt Ryans and Tony Romos.

[isired]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

Stop. Flacco is absolutely better than Romo. Quote all the fantasy stats all you want Romo plays in a pass happy offense - often from behind - with Austin, Bryant and Witten to throw to. Romo cannot finish a game to save his life he is the most unclutch player I have ever seen.

Flacco's not at Manning, Brady level yet but he is top 10 and better than the Matt Ryans and Tony Romos.

Agree with everything except Ryan, and "yet". I think it's far, far from a foregone conclusion that Flack will reach Manning, Brady level. And as for Ryan, I think they're similar in terms of effectiveness. Site, Flacco's a notch higher because he's gotten there, I could see Ryan putting together a playoff run, and I could see Flacco putting together a 3-pick loss in the first round of the playoffs next year, or a bad stretch in the regular season, etc. Neither would be shocking. Eli is also similar in that way, but you've got to put him a rung higher because he's done it twice.

[John_0515]

Originally Posted by isired

Agree with everything except Ryan, and "yet". I think it's far, far from a foregone conclusion that Flack will reach Manning, Brady level. And as for Ryan, I think they're similar in terms of effectiveness. Site, Flacco's a notch higher because he's gotten there, I could see Ryan putting together a playoff run, and I could see Flacco putting together a 3-pick loss in the first round of the playoffs next year, or a bad stretch in the regular season, etc. Neither would be shocking. Eli is also similar in that way, but you've got to put him a rung higher because he's done it twice.

Despite having some lucky balloons fall in the right spot, Flacco has shown that he has some higher level skills than Ryan.

Ryan is extremely hot and cold, especially against good teams.

JMO

[isired]

Originally Posted by John_0515

Despite having some lucky balloons fall in the right spot, Flacco has shown that he has some higher level skills than Ryan.

Ryan is extremely hot and cold, especially against good teams.

JMO

I would agree now, but I'm not sure I would have said that at any point before January 2013. And there was certainly a time when it looked like Ryan had the higher level skills.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by PMarsico9

OK well then let's try it this way:

Flacco has effectively one of the top 3 RB's in Football. Pro-Bowlers at both tackle positions, Boldin, one of the most productive Wideouts since he was drafted in the NFL, Torrey Smith an undeniable talent.

I don't think Nicks or Cruz are even in the same ballpark with Smith and neither has the career productivity that Boldin has had.

While the Giants O-line is OK (Snee is very good), it's not close to the Ravens.

Lastly, you get to Rice. Rice is still the key to the Ravens, not Flacco. Cam Cameron was fired not just because his blocking schemes on passing plays stunk, but because he simply was not getting Rice the touches he should have every game. Baltimore's record when Rice gets (don't quote me on this) 25+ touches is incredible.

I guarantee you that when Flacco has to throw the ball 40 plus times a game it's not as good.

On the flip side, Eli, again, is the best weapon on the Giants offense.

If you break it down: Eli elevates people around him to seem awesome. Flacco complements guys who largely are awesome.

Give Eli Boldin, Rice, and Smith and see what happens.

Do you watch football other than the Jets? Nicks and Cruz have had seasons that absolutely blow away anything Smith has done. Nicks was flat out better in college and he's been better in the pros. Cruz put up 1,500 yards last season. Smith can't sniff that. Smith is a burner that is developing but has not established himself as a top tier player. You think Boldin's playoffs were great? Check out what Nicks did last year. And nobody has been bailed out more by his skill position players than Eli. It used to be Burress was his ultimate security blanket, Eli would just close his eyes and chuck it up high for him. That was basically the Giants 07 playoff run. Helmet catch anyone? I'm sure that was Eli elevating Tyree to make the greatest catch of all-time, riiiiiight

Rice is great but had a disappointing season that culminated with a poor showing in the playoffs where he had 4 or 5 fumbles. He had very little to do with the Ravens playoff run. Explain to me how in any way, shape or form Rice was the "key" to any of the Ravens playoff wins during their run. Pearce was probably their most effective runner in the playoffs.

I have no idea where you got some of the craziness from this post, but it's flat out wrong on a lot of levels.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

Stop. Flacco is absolutely better than Romo. Quote all the fantasy stats all you want Romo plays in a pass happy offense - often from behind - with Austin, Bryant and Witten to throw to. Romo cannot finish a game to save his life he is the most unclutch player I have ever seen.

Flacco's not at Manning, Brady level yet but he is top 10 and better than the Matt Ryans and Tony Romos.

Romo is better. He can carry a team and is generally asked to. Flacco has never been asked to carry a team, only started to slightly at times this season. Romo needed to throw for almost 5,000 yards just to keep the Cowboys competitive this season. Their D was horrendous. I've seen both play plenty and Romo is simply the better player. Give Romo the Ds Flacco had his first few seasons and he'd have a ring for sure

[FMJets]

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

Do you watch football other than the Jets? Nicks and Cruz have had seasons that absolutely blow away anything Smith has done. Nicks was flat out better in college and he's been better in the pros. Cruz put up 1,500 yards last season. Smith can't sniff that. Smith is a burner that is developing but has not established himself as a top tier player. You think Boldin's playoffs were great? Check out what Nicks did last year. And nobody has been bailed out more by his skill position players than Eli. It used to be Burress was his ultimate security blanket, Eli would just close his eyes and chuck it up high for him. That was basically the Giants 07 playoff run. Helmet catch anyone? I'm sure that was Eli elevating Tyree to make the greatest catch of all-time, riiiiiight

Rice is great but had a disappointing season that culminated with a poor showing in the playoffs where he had 4 or 5 fumbles. He had very little to do with the Ravens playoff run. Explain to me how in any way, shape or form Rice was the "key" to any of the Ravens playoff wins during their run. Pearce was probably their most effective runner in the playoffs.

I have no idea where you got some of the craziness from this post, but it's flat out wrong on a lot of levels.

I agree with this assesement of Eli. He is the most overated player in this board and the NFL. Elite..Haha. against the Jets in 2011 he was 9/27. But got bailed out by Cruz. I will admit he was clutch in the 2011 playoffs though, and that is all you need. But the defense was a big help in Greenbay, plus the fact that the GB receivers could not catch that day.
That said I would not consider Flacco elite but a very good game manager at this point. It has been said before but there were some lucky floaters especially against Denver.
It is definately a toss up between Romo and Flacco. Romo the better player but has not done anything in the playoffs. If I had to choose I would probably pick Romo.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by FMJets

I agree with this assesement of Eli. He is the most overated player in this board and the NFL. Elite..Haha. against the Jets in 2011 he was 9/27. But got bailed out by Cruz. I will admit he was clutch in the 2011 playoffs though, and that is all you need. But the defense was a big help in Greenbay, plus the fact that the GB receivers could not catch that day.
That said I would not consider Flacco elite but a very good game manager at this point. It has been said before but there were some lucky floaters especially against Denver.
It is definately a toss up between Romo and Flacco. Romo the better player but has not done anything in the playoffs. If I had to choose I would probably pick Romo.

I think it's more safe to say that all three are pretty close. Romo doesn't have the bling pedigree to prove it but his numbers are pretty comparable to Eli's recently. Flacco just had the playoff run of a lifetime (his regular season numbers were nothing special at all) that will now coincide with this negotiations with his team.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by FMJets

I agree with this assesement of Eli. He is the most overated player in this board and the NFL. Elite..Haha. against the Jets in 2011 he was 9/27. But got bailed out by Cruz. I will admit he was clutch in the 2011 playoffs though, and that is all you need. But the defense was a big help in Greenbay, plus the fact that the GB receivers could not catch that day.
That said I would not consider Flacco elite but a very good game manager at this point. It has been said before but there were some lucky floaters especially against Denver.
It is definately a toss up between Romo and Flacco. Romo the better player but has not done anything in the playoffs. If I had to choose I would probably pick Romo.

Eli's best stretch of his career was the 2011 playoffs, but he reverted back to career norms in 2012 regular season as I anticipated. Many locals were surprised by this, but why would anyone have been? We had 8 years of data on Eli prior to this season, why would he suddenly become a different player in year 9 solely based on a 4 game playoff stretch the year before? Doesn't make sense. Same thing will happen with Flacco. He is the guy who we saw in his 90 previous starts before the playoffs. Solid but unspectacular. Chose a great moment to have the best 4 game stretch of his career but he is not likely to duplicate it for 16 games.

I know everyone wants to judge a QB by the playoffs, but usually the true indication of a guy as a player is derived from the regular season. It's all about sample size. 16 games is a better indicator of how you generally play than 3 or 4. To me, that is why Romo is better than Flacco and at least on par with Eli. You can make the argument that Romo has had a couple poor playoff performances, but are you telling me Eli and Flacco haven't? They've just had better all-around teams that gave them more playoff chances. And their teams really rose to the occasion in those big playoff games. You think Romo enjoyed his o-line's meltdown against the Giants in 2007? You think Romo enjoyed his team not being able to run the ball and giving up 350 yards and 4 TDs to Favre against the Vikings in 2009? When Eli had his SB runs, those critical failures in other parts of the team didn't happen. Flacco I'd argue overcame more than Eli ever did just because his special teams melted down against Denver and his D got taken to the woodshed in the SB against the Niners. But his D also held the Pats to 13 points and the Colts to 9.