New Mock (Cro trade)

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

Makes lots of sense to me.
In Warmack and Warford you have 2 guys you can comfortably plug in from Day 1 and expect to have high quality/pro bowl caliber play at the guard position for the next 8-10 years.

People complain about the offense being so bad. When you have a draft that is weak in QBs and WRs but strong in interior O-lineman you draft BPA. Thats what this draft does.

I love this draft. With the first 3 picks you are resurrecting a dead ground game. SInce there is no franchise QB in the draft you hope that by going back to what succeeded in 2009 and 2010 (great running game with a dominant O-Line) Sanchez will show some progress.

Exactly

[SCITSCAT]

Originally Posted by Joe W. Namath

Lets trade Cro who was our best player on D last year, is still pretty young and he doesnt kill our salary cap.

Brilliant.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

Makes lots of sense to me.
In Warmack and Warford you have 2 guys you can comfortably plug in from Day 1 and expect to have high quality/pro bowl caliber play at the guard position for the next 8-10 years.
People complain about the offense being so bad. When you have a draft that is weak in QBs and WRs but strong in interior O-lineman you draft BPA. Thats what this draft does.

I love this draft. With the first 3 picks you are resurrecting a dead ground game. SInce there is no franchise QB in the draft you hope that by going back to what succeeded in 2009 and 2010 (great running game with a dominant O-Line) Sanchez will show some progress.

In the salary cap era there's no way you're going to keep 2 OGs of that caliber for that length of time. How do u pay the LT,the OC and both those OGs and field any decent team . You haven't paid the QB, the other bookend tackle or any of the defensive premium positions yet.The most you are going to get out of them is that 1st contract if they're as good as u guys think they are. Maybe you get to keep 1, but at what price.

[jetster]

Idzik should see if the Vikings would be interested in Revis.
Trade Revis for Harvin & and the Vikings 1st round pick.
We know that Holmes will be gone after 2013.
That would shore up your passing game next year.
Holmes- Harvin- Kerley -Hill
Depending on how many QBs come off the board in the 1st 8 picks, pray that we can trade back a few picks & still get an OLB, & OC/OG in the 1st round, stud RB in the 2nd & another WR to bring along for when Holmes & his ridiculous
Contract is cut.
A 4th or 5th round TE would round out our future offense.
Something like Powell/ Stepfan/ or Lacy along with those receivers & a solidified Oline with an infusion of youth could make the Jets very dangerous.
You keep McKnight around for kick returns to keep Harvin Healthy.
You would have 6 skill players with quicks & wiggle which is what you need in the WCO.
Holmes-Kerley-Harvin-Hill- Powell- Stepfan
That alone would make a player like Cumberland more dangerous.
It's a good start & building block towards 2014.

[Gas2No99]

Originally Posted by shuler82

two guards in the first three picks? holy ****.

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

I have a hard time with drafting 2 guards in the first 3 rounds. I don't think our o-line is bad even if it could be upgraded. Idzik would have a tough time selling the fanbase on taking guards with 2 of his first 3 picks when the team is in dire need of playmakers on both sides of the ball.

All you have to do is go back to 1999 and see that it's not an unprecedented idea to draft 2 Guards in the first 2 picks which was practiced by the Great Savior: Bill Parcells.

In 1999 we drafted in order:

2nd round #57 Overall - Randy Thomas -G - Mississippi State
3rd round #90 Overall - David Loverne - G - San Jose St.
4th round #123 Overall - Jason Wiltz - DT - Nebraska
5th round #162 Overall - Jermaine jones - DB - lasted 3 games
6th round #183 Overall - Marc Megna - LB - Richmond
6th round #197 Overall - JP Machado - G - Illinois
7th round #223 Overall - Ryan Young - OT - Kansas State

We went HEAVY on OLine that draft and the only picks that panned out were ol' #77 Randy Thomas until we lost him to Washington in 2003 and Ryan Young who was a starter from Day 1 as well but was gifted to the Texans expansion draft in exchange for them also taking Aaron Glenn & Marcus Coleman's MONSTER contracts off our books.

Just saying that it has been done before by a HOF coach and it should not shock anyone if it were to happen again if the value is there

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

I like taking a LT/RT at 9, better value and versatility in case of injuries to the O line. Love guards who can also play center, again gives versatility in case of injury. Harper will be gone before the 6th round, but I really like him.

How about if i flip the 5th and 6th picks. Take Harper in the 5th and Williams in the 6th. Williams lack of speed will force him down many a draft board.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

How about if i flip the 5th and 6th picks. Take Harper in the 5th and Williams in the 6th. Williams lack of speed will force him down many a draft board.

That could work.

[Yankeejet22]

Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot

Not a fan of that either. Makes no sense to me.

Wasting more top picks on interior linemen is pretty stupid when there are so many other holes on this team.

Pass rusher or playmaker please. A QB would be nice.

+1

I honestly wouldn't even look at a OG in the draft 'til the 5th/6th round.

Draft;

Pass rushers (preferably two), whether they're LB'ers or DLinemen.
RB
WR
TE
OT
QB

[NDubz]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

Makes lots of sense to me.
In Warmack and Warford you have 2 guys you can comfortably plug in from Day 1 and expect to have high quality/pro bowl caliber play at the guard position for the next 8-10 years.

People complain about the offense being so bad. When you have a draft that is weak in QBs and WRs but strong in interior O-lineman you draft BPA. Thats what this draft does.

I love this draft. With the first 3 picks you are resurrecting a dead ground game. SInce there is no franchise QB in the draft you hope that by going back to what succeeded in 2009 and 2010 (great running game with a dominant O-Line) Sanchez will show some progress.

Almost all Rookie contracts are 4 years now. So you're going to have two "high caliber/pro bowl players" that need to be resigned to lucrative long term deals, with one of these players being talked up as the next best guard in the league...

How exactly does that work? I honestly can't think of any instances of this situation being accomplished at any position and I REALLY don't think any team would or could ever tie up that kind of money in two guards. We can't even realistically keep both guards we are losing now, neither of which is a high caliber pro bowl player in their prime.

And if this logic is thinking too far in advance, than this whole "great guards for the next 8-10 years" argument goes out the window too. Spending 2 of our top 3 picks to have high caliber pro bowl guards for the next 3-4 years? Eh, less appealing.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by player1322

Almost all Rookie contracts are 4 years now. So you're going to have two "high caliber/pro bowl players" that need to be resigned to lucrative long term deals, with one of these players being talked up as the next best guard in the league...

How exactly does that work? I honestly can't think of any instances of this situation being accomplished at any position and I REALLY don't think any team would or could ever tie up that kind of money in two guards. We can't even realistically keep both guards we are losing now, neither of which is a high caliber pro bowl player in their prime.

And if this logic is thinking too far in advance, than this whole "great guards for the next 8-10 years" argument goes out the window too. Spending 2 of our top 3 picks to have high caliber pro bowl guards for the next 3-4 years? Eh, less appealing.

What if 1 of those players or both could play OT or OC if needed.

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by player1322

Almost all Rookie contracts are 4 years now. So you're going to have two "high caliber/pro bowl players" that need to be resigned to lucrative long term deals, with one of these players being talked up as the next best guard in the league...

How exactly does that work? I honestly can't think of any instances of this situation being accomplished at any position and I REALLY don't think any team would or could ever tie up that kind of money in two guards. We can't even realistically keep both guards we are losing now, neither of which is a high caliber pro bowl player in their prime.

And if this logic is thinking too far in advance, than this whole "great guards for the next 8-10 years" argument goes out the window too. Spending 2 of our top 3 picks to have high caliber pro bowl guards for the next 3-4 years? Eh, less appealing.

Yes in 4 years we are going to have to resign them both. We were able to resign both Brick and Mangold who were both picked in the 1st round and are pro bowl players so why would this be so impossible? We also dont know what the salary cap situation will be in 4 years so why not take the 2 BAPs at a position that is a dire need?

I dont worry about being able to resign O-Linemen.

[NDubz]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

Yes in 4 years we are going to have to resign them both. We were able to resign both Brick and Mangold who were both picked in the 1st round and are pro bowl players so why would this be so impossible? We also dont know what the salary cap situation will be in 4 years so why not take the 2 BAPs at a position that is a dire need?

I dont worry about being able to resign O-Linemen.

Honestly, if the draft turned out that way with the two guards I certainly wouldn't be hating it. I feel its been awhile since a Jets draft produced anything to very happy about so I won't have a huge problem with safe picks. That being said, I don't realistically think the team would do that with so many positions needing to be filled. This team is hardly a great Oline away from a Superbowl run. I also think it would be pretty difficult to keep two exceptional guards long term. You're right, they signed Brick and Mangold so maybe they could. But LT and C are usually considered the two premium Oline positions and doesn't necessarily translate to being the same as two guards.

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by player1322

Honestly, if the draft turned out that way with the two guards I certainly wouldn't be hating it. I feel its been awhile since a Jets draft produced anything to very happy about so I won't have a huge problem with safe picks. That being said, I don't realistically think the team would do that with so many positions needing to be filled. This team is hardly a great Oline away from a Superbowl run. I also think it would be pretty difficult to keep two exceptional guards long term. You're right, they signed Brick and Mangold so maybe they could. But LT and C are usually considered the two premium Oline positions and doesn't necessarily translate to being the same as two guards.

I understand what you are saying but, what Untouchable is doing in his mock is very smart and in my opinion a very good approach. He is rebuilding the team based on this year's draft's strength (which BTW is a big need for us).

We know our offense has major issues. Unfortunately, there is no great QB prospect this year to build a franchise around. So he does the next best thing, rebuild a struggling run game. If your 2 new guard and new RB can resurrect the running game, then, in effect you help out your QB. Sanchez no doubt is a disappointment, but hes not as horrible as his stats or how everyone makes him out to be. I believe he could be a decent QB, maybe a 15-20th ranked QB. This can happen if he has a dependable running game and perhaps he can return to Year 2 where he was not so bad and we could win with him.

That said, I agree we still have many positions to fill, esp at OLB, Safety, TE, and even ILB can use an upgrade.
We are rebuilding. We will mot turn this around in 1 offseason. But I think UT's plan has made a good start

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by Yankeejet22

+1

I honestly wouldn't even look at a OG in the draft 'til the 5th/6th round.

Draft;

Pass rushers (preferably two), whether they're LB'ers or DLinemen.
RB
WR
TE
OT
QB

So you want to replace Moore and Slauson with a couple of rookie 6th/7th round picks?

[patman]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

- Jets trade Cromartie to the Bucs for their 2nd round pick this year and a 4th in 2014


1st round: OG Chance Warmack - Alabama

2nd round: RB Stepfan Taylor - Stanford

2nd round: OG Larry Warford - Kentucky

3rd round: OLB Brandon Jenkins - Florida State

4th round: QB Zac Dysert - Miami Ohio

5th round: OLB Meshak Williams - Kansas State

6th round: WR Keenan Davis - Iowa

7th round: FB Tommy Bohanon - Vanderbilt

I got no problem building from the line out. At least whoever you have at qb and Taylor at RB will benefit.

Kind of tough to quantify how well it addresses needs without a picture of how you believe FA will go I assume you will make the 15mil + commitment to Revis and an attempt At Landry as The DBackfield gets weaker sans Cro and not one draft pick for back there.

Tampa's zone is not a fit for Cro, as that is why he was traded to the jets as he underperformed when the chargers went to a zone. But as far as the trade value goes it is certainly reasonable.As I could see Cinci (no SB will appeal to the cheap Brown family) or Tenn since they loss Finnegan last year and have a hole there. And both those teams play more of a press man.

[patman]

Originally Posted by heymangold

why not draft 2 OGs? i get that the line graded out well by PFF, but lets face it, Moore is getting old and isn't that good, and Slauson isn't anything special either.

Please no references to pro football focus before bedtime, I get too wound up.

[chirorob]

Originally Posted by player1322

Almost all Rookie contracts are 4 years now. So you're going to have two "high caliber/pro bowl players" that need to be resigned to lucrative long term deals, with one of these players being talked up as the next best guard in the league...

How exactly does that work? I honestly can't think of any instances of this situation being accomplished at any position and I REALLY don't think any team would or could ever tie up that kind of money in two guards. We can't even realistically keep both guards we are losing now, neither of which is a high caliber pro bowl player in their prime.

And if this logic is thinking too far in advance, than this whole "great guards for the next 8-10 years" argument goes out the window too. Spending 2 of our top 3 picks to have high caliber pro bowl guards for the next 3-4 years? Eh, less appealing.

Really, why draft any good players, you'll just have to spend big bucks resigning them. I think we are better off drafting no elite players. Just makes Idzik's job easier later on down the road.

[patman]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

In the salary cap era there's no way you're going to keep 2 OGs of that caliber for that length of time. How do u pay the LT,the OC and both those OGs and field any decent team . You haven't paid the QB, the other bookend tackle or any of the defensive premium positions yet.The most you are going to get out of them is that 1st contract if they're as good as u guys think they are. Maybe you get to keep 1, but at what price.

Because four years from now your LT and center wont be getting paid 10 mill a year anymore, they will be two young guys and the two higher paid guys will be at guard. The two patriot tackles make 3mill between them. 3 years from now
Mankins will be 33 and cut and Solder will get the money. 4 years from now mangold is going to be making 19 mill when he is 33 and 34 years old and has no dead money attached. Do you think he will see more than 25% of that?

[patman]

Originally Posted by jetster

Idzik should see if the Vikings would be interested in Revis.
Trade Revis for Harvin & and the Vikings 1st round pick.
We know that Holmes will be gone after 2013.
That would shore up your passing game next year.
Holmes- Harvin- Kerley -Hill
Depending on how many QBs come off the board in the 1st 8 picks, pray that we can trade back a few picks & still get an OLB, & OC/OG in the 1st round, stud RB in the 2nd & another WR to bring along for when Holmes & his ridiculous
Contract is cut.
A 4th or 5th round TE would round out our future offense.
Something like Powell/ Stepfan/ or Lacy along with those receivers & a solidified Oline with an infusion of youth could make the Jets very dangerous.
You keep McKnight around for kick returns to keep Harvin Healthy.
You would have 6 skill players with quicks & wiggle which is what you need in the WCO.
Holmes-Kerley-Harvin-Hill- Powell- Stepfan
That alone would make a player like Cumberland more dangerous.
It's a good start & building block towards 2014.

Harvin and the first rd pick? And the vikings are going to make this trade before Revis can put on a uniform. Kind of optimistic don't you think?

What about harvin and a pick next year if revis re-signs with the vikings?

[NDubz]

Originally Posted by chirorob

Really, why draft any good players, you'll just have to spend big bucks resigning them. I think we are better off drafting no elite players. Just makes Idzik's job easier later on down the road.

If you actually read the post(s) you would know I was responding to the assertion that the Jets would be drafting their starting guards for the next 8-10 years. I didn't use my calculator, but I think the two would need to be resigned sometime in that time period. I was simply responding to a point that was made in the argument for drafting the two.
But hey, thanks for your terrific input. "...we are better off drafting no elite players" - That is terrific, wish I could have thought of it.