They are who we thought they were....

[John McClane]

Salt + wounds.

[Beerfish]

Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan

I don't understand all the Shonn Greene hate.

Greene is a downhill runner, he is not a scat-back that jukes to make people miss.

He may not be a game changer but he has been servicable his last 2 years as the #1 RB, coming off his second straight thousand yard season with 8 TD's last season.

Greene has also only missed 2 starts the last 2 seasons.

The stat says it all, he makes NOONE miss. You know the good running teams? It's a bit of good oline play and a back that can find a hole which Greene can't and our olin takes the blame. For a running team we left just a ton of yards on the field last year because being down hill runner means just running into the pile apparently.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Did Curtis break into your house and rape you or something?

That's what you guys always do.. You can't stay with the facts and ever admit sweet Cumar didn't do something great.. You can crap on every other back but not Martin.. Did he come to you house and give you some sweet loving??

[LockeJET]

Originally Posted by Savage69

That's what you guys always do.. You can't stay with the facts and ever admit sweet Cumar didn't do something great.. You can crap on every other back but not Martin.. Did he come to you house and give you some sweet loving??

He's a HOFer for a reason. And your Vinny and Montana stat doesn't mean sh!t because Vinny isn't in the HOF and never will be.

Eye test alone, you could look at Cumar and realize he was diffferent and special.

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan

He may not be a game changer but he has been servicable his last 2 years as the #1 RB, coming off his second straight thousand yard season with 8 TD's last season.

1,000 yard season = 62.5 yards a game.

8 TD's = .5 TD's game.

Greene is nothing more than a below average NFL RB.

[McGinley]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

1,000 yard season = 62.5 yards a game.

8 TD's = .5 TD's game.

Greene is nothing more than a below average NFL RB.

Wait, you're telling me that 2 yards and a cloud of dust isn't elite? WHAT KIND OF BLASPHEMY IS THIS!?

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by LockeJET

He's a HOFer for a reason. And your Vinny and Montana stat doesn't mean sh!t because Vinny isn't in the HOF and never will be.

Eye test alone, you could look at Cumar and realize he was diffferent and special.

Eye test alone who was better Sayers,AP,Terrell Davis or Martin?? What you Cumar fanboys say is 3.5 ypc is great if Martin does it but shows a back sucks if anyone else does it.. All I ever wanted was one of you to say after a huge contract and a 1st and 3rd draft choice, 3.5 ypc and 14 yds rushing in a huge game was not good.. What I get is excuses.. Of course Vinny isn't in the same class as Montana even though he has more then 6,000 yds passing.. Montana was a winner something Martin or Vinny are not..

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by Beerfish

Also our oline is terrible in all ways.....oh wait the stats said otherwise and Greene couldn't find a hole if his life depended on it. (Tosses up softball for jokes.)

They're not mutually exclusive. We can use an upgrade at RB and still have a need on the line.

And I don't think most people will tell you that the oline is terrible in "all ways". Rather, its far from the #3 line in the league. If you wanted to argue that they were a top 12 oline, I could see it. I'd probably move them slightly downward (very slightly), but this Oline certainly had its share of positive moments.

Unfortunately, its easier to upgrade your Oline than it is to upgrade your QB.

[Dcat]

Originally Posted by LockeJET

He's a HOFer for a reason. And your Vinny and Montana stat doesn't mean sh!t because Vinny isn't in the HOF and never will be.

Eye test alone, you could look at Cumar and realize he was diffferent and special.

He's a HOFer for his durability, that's it. CM was NEVER a game changer. Good guy, but incredibly overrated.

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by LockeJET

Eye test alone, you could look at Cumar and realize he was diffferent and special.

Because of longevity and consistency.

In his 11-year career, he was only named All-Pro one time.

"Different and special" RB's are Sayers, Sanders, Brown, Payton, Simpson and Campbell.

CuMar isn't even close to their league.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by Dcat

He's a HOFer for his durability, that's it. CM was NEVER a game changer. Good guy, but incredibly overrated.

Well that fumble that cost us Vinny in game 1 in 1999 sure changed our season..

[LockeJET]

I agree. Martin is not in the class of the other RB's. No question. But durrability and consistancy for a RB is absolutely part of the package. Martin wasn't a game changer but to say he wasn't a winner is wrong. He never won it all but he won..Marino wasn't a winner either if we wan't to go there.

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by LockeJET

I agree. Martin is not in the class of the other RB's. No question. But durrability and consistancy for a RB is absolutely part of the package. Martin wasn't a game changer but to say he wasn't a winner is wrong. He never won it all but he won..Marino wasn't a winner either if we wan't to go there.

CuMar was a very good RB, just not in the elite class that I previously mentioned.

Hell, if it weren't for the Pats drafting and developing him, he never would have been a good RB for the Jets.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by Savage69

That's what you guys always do.. You can't stay with the facts and ever admit sweet Cumar didn't do something great.. You can crap on every other back but not Martin.. Did he come to you house and give you some sweet loving??

What does Curtis Martin have to do with the topic at hand?

You bring him up in seemingly every RB discussion just to get a few digs in at him.

The guy is in Canton for a reason. Call him a compiler all you want. The committee still saw it fit to induct him before a guy like Bettis who finished his career with a ring.

[DDNYjets]

Curtis Martin is never going to be confused for a dynamic RB. But his HoF attributes go beyond stats. He was a leader and he was very durable and consistent. A bit of a compiler but it is his intangibles that put him over the top.

The biggest knock on him is spitting the bit in Denver. And that is a legitimate criticism. That was our SB team. The Falcons would have been a pushover. But he is not the only one to blame for that debacle.

[LockeJET]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

CuMar was a very good RB, just not in the elite class that I previously mentioned.

Hell, if it weren't for the Pats drafting and developing him, he never would have been a good RB for the Jets.

When I think of HOF RB's I think the names you mentioned. I mean how can we not. I agree 100% Martin is not on that level. But neither is Bettis and he'll get in one day. And others will as well.

There are RB's that have had sick HOF years. Like Shawn Alexander, Chris Johnson, Priest Holmes, etc, etc..... But they don't last or only do it for 2-3 years tops. There is something to say about a guy that was very very good as a RB from the day he stepped into the league until the day he left.

Cumar wasn't voted in by Jets fans. Those that watched the game enough can appreciate the HOFer that was Curtis Martin.

If it was up to me, the HOF would only be for the all time greats. And Curtis wouldn't get in. But that changed a long time ago. Based on what we saw and what we know about RB's over the last 10-15 years Curtis belongs. He was that good for far too long.

Savage's argument about Cumar has no legs any longer. He's a HOFer for a reason and deserves every bit of it. It's no about YPC. It's about one of the toughest positions in the league to be succcessful at for long periods of time. That alone today makes him a HOFer.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by LockeJET

When I think of HOF RB's I think the names you mentioned. I mean how can we not. I agree 100% Martin is not on that level. But neither is Bettis and he'll get in one day. And others will as well.

There are RB's that have had sick HOF years. Like Shawn Alexander, Chris Johnson, Priest Holmes, etc, etc..... But they don't last or only do it for 2-3 years tops. There is something to say about a guy that was very very good as a RB from the day he stepped into the league until the day he left.

Cumar wasn't voted in by Jets fans. Those that watched the game enough can appreciate the HOFer that was Curtis Martin.

If it was up to me, the HOF would only be for the all time greats. And Curtis wouldn't get in. But that changed a long time ago. Based on what we saw and what we know about RB's over the last 10-15 years Curtis belongs. He was that good for far too long.

Savage's argument about Cumar has no legs any longer. He's a HOFer for a reason and deserves every bit of it. It's no about YPC. It's about one of the toughest positions in the league to be succcessful at for long periods of time. That alone today makes him a HOFer.

This

No one is saying that Curtis was Gale Sayers, Jim Brown or Barry Sanders.

But if you're going to put a guy like Art Monk in the HOF, then Curtis Martin is definitely deserving.

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by LockeJET

When I think of HOF RB's I think the names you mentioned. I mean how can we not. I agree 100% Martin is not on that level. But neither is Bettis and he'll get in one day. And others will as well.

There are RB's that have had sick HOF years. Like Shawn Alexander, Chris Johnson, Priest Holmes, etc, etc..... But they don't last or only do it for 2-3 years tops. There is something to say about a guy that was very very good as a RB from the day he stepped into the league until the day he left.

Cumar wasn't voted in by Jets fans. Those that watched the game enough can appreciate the HOFer that was Curtis Martin.

If it was up to me, the HOF would only be for the all time greats. And Curtis wouldn't get in. But that changed a long time ago. Based on what we saw and what we know about RB's over the last 10-15 years Curtis belongs. He was that good for far too long.

Savage's argument about Cumar has no legs any longer. He's a HOFer for a reason and deserves every bit of it. It's no about YPC. It's about one of the toughest positions in the league to be succcessful at for long periods of time. That alone today makes him a HOFer.

That's a solid post.

Well done.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

What does Curtis Martin have to do with the topic at hand?

You bring him up in seemingly every RB discussion just to get a few digs in at him.

The guy is in Canton for a reason. Call him a compiler all you want. The committee still saw it fit to induct him before a guy like Bettis who finished his career with a ring.

The topic was RB's was it not.. How bad Greene was with his 8 tds and 3.9 ypc?? Just admit Martin is held to a different level of criticism where 3.5 ypc is a good year and 3.9 for Greene means he sucks.. If me voicing my opinion on comparing rb's offends you there's the ignore feature.. BTW I have always said Martin would make the HOF based on his durability and longevity and he was a great guy and role model.. If he acted like Gastineau who was a 3 time All Pro do you think he gets in?? Even YJF admitted in his visit the other week that Martin was never great just good for a long time.. The HOF committee is very political otherwise Klecko and Winston Hill would have been in a long time ago..

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

That's a solid post.

Well done.

I agree it was.. In other words it's great if your good for a long time.. Based on that Sayers should be taken out.. Take Lynn Swann for a example. He never had close to a 1,000 yd season but when the chips were down in big games he produced in spades..