With the 9th Pick, The NY Jets Select.....

[johnnysd]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

The way i see it, you prefer to win by outscoring your oponent while i prefer to win by making sure my oponent can't score. I like my way better, but there's merit to your way. I just think your way is a cap killer.

The defense method has proven to be a cap killer already and that is before the Revis decision. Proper management of the team is critical for either philosophy but I am greatly in favor of balance tilted towards offense. Great defense if overrated and nullified by lack of offense.

[shuler82]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

There's a decent chance that he won't be there at #9.

The NFL is changing.

Teams look at the impact guys like Carl Nicks, Logan Mankins, Marshall Yanda, the Pouncey brothers and Mike Iupati are having on their teams and are beginning to notice that this "no interior OL in the Top 10" philosophy is ignorant and outdated.

We know you have a hard on for Chance, but this post is complete BS.

Congratulations for listing a bunch of great guards... but how are any of these players having more impact than great guards from years past? The fact is, not one of these players mentioned was drafted in the top 10, or top 15.

You might think that 'no interior OL in the top 10' is 'ignorant' and 'outdated', but most NFL teams don't. I'm not saying that Warmack isn't a great prospect, and could slide right in and play at a high level. But so can a lot of guards drafted in round 2 (and round 3.. and round 4).

The guard position has traditionally been one of the easiest to fill - look at our guards - an un-drafted, converted DL & a 6th round pick. Both are solid NFL starters. Having an all-world guard isn't much of a difference than having a solid NFL guard. It's much tougher to hit on an OLB or RT (not to mention QB, CB, etc)

Now, if you're saying the top of the draft is so void of talent, that Chance is the only blue-chip prospect at #9.. well, that's pretty sad for the state of college football right now. Personally, I'd rather take a chance on a highly rated OLB/pass rusher, and find my new starting guard(s) in the mid rounds or on the cheap in FA. I mean, we aren't finding a stud OLB in round 2 or 3, and we can't afford one in FA.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by shuler82

We know you have a hard on for Chance, but this post is complete BS.

Congratulations for listing a bunch of great guards... but how are any of these players having more impact than great guards from years past? The fact is, not one of these players mentioned was drafted in the top 10, or top 15.

You might think that 'no interior OL in the top 10' is 'ignorant' and 'outdated', but most NFL teams don't. I'm not saying that Warmack isn't a great prospect, and could slide right in and play at a high level. But so can a lot of guards drafted in round 2 (and round 3.. and round 4).

The guard position has traditionally been one of the easiest to fill - look at our guards - an un-drafted, converted DL & a 6th round pick. Both are solid NFL starters. Having an all-world guard isn't much of a difference than having a solid NFL guard. It's much tougher to hit on an OLB or RT (not to mention QB, CB, etc)

Now, if you're saying the top of the draft is so void of talent, that Chance is the only blue-chip prospect at #9.. well, that's pretty sad for the state of college football right now. Personally, I'd rather take a chance on a highly rated OLB/pass rusher, and find my new starting guard(s) in the mid rounds or on the cheap in FA. I mean, we aren't finding a stud OLB in round 2 or 3, and we can't afford one in FA.

LOL

There's so much fail in this post I don't even know where to begin.

There hasn't been a guard taken in the Top 10 in recent memory because there hasn't been a guard as talented as Warmack to come out in recent memory. He makes highly touted prospects like DeCastro and Iupati seem completely average in comparison.

And to say that it's impossible for us to find an impact passrusher outside of the 1st round is beyond retarded. The Ravens took Paul Kruger in the 3rd round three years ago, how's that working out? How about the Texans with Connor Barwin? The Steelers with Lamar Woodley?

So yeah, I'll take a sure thing like Warmack and someone like Brandon Jenkins or Alex Okafor in the 2nd/3rd round over some total tossup like Ansah or Mingo and a guard that can't even carry Warmack's jock.

Prospects like Warmack come along every 15-20 years. Guys like Ansah and Mingo come along every single draft.

[Ruby2]

UT has got me sold

[Johhny Johnson]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

The way i see it, you prefer to win by outscoring your oponent while i prefer to win by making sure my oponent can't score. I like my way better, but there's merit to your way. I just think your way is a cap killer.

In todays nfl unfortunately you really cant build a team through your defense its about explosive plays thats why the Niners went with Kapernick and the Ravens didnt win till the team became offense oriented..

Its hard to play D nowadays there are no more great defenses..Id say the Niners have the best D or at least as good as anyone and they were getting shredded for 300 passing yards in the 1st half of the nfc title game..

The Ravnes won the super bowl and their D gave up 500 yards in the super bowl far from great..

In todays NFL you have to build through your offense and hope to have a defense thats adequate enough

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by Johhny Johnson

In todays nfl unfortunately you really cant build a team through your defense its about explosive plays thats why the Niners went with Kapernick and the Ravens didnt win till the team became offense oriented..

Its hard to play D nowadays there are no more great defenses..Id say the Niners have the best D or at least as good as anyone and they were getting shredded for 300 passing yards in the 1st half of the nfc title game..

The Ravnes won the super bowl and their D gave up 500 yards in the super bowl far from great..

In todays NFL you have to build through your offense and hope to have a defense thats adequate enough

Exactly

Why the hell people still want to model this team after the '85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens is beyond me.

Fix this pathetic offense already.

[shuler82]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

LOL

There's so much fail in this post I don't even know where to begin.

There hasn't been a guard taken in the Top 10 in recent memory because there hasn't been a guard as talented as Warmack to come out in recent memory. He makes highly touted prospects like DeCastro and Iupati seem completely average in comparison.

And to say that it's impossible for us to find an impact passrusher outside of the 1st round is beyond retarded. The Ravens took Paul Kruger in the 3rd round three years ago, how's that working out? How about the Texans with Connor Barwin? The Steelers with Lamar Woodley?

So yeah, I'll take a sure thing like Warmack and someone like Brandon Jenkins or Alex Okafor in the 2nd/3rd round over some total tossup like Ansah or Mingo and a guard that can't even carry Warmack's jock.

Prospects like Warmack come along every 15-20 years. Guys like Ansah and Mingo come along every single draft.

So Warmack is now a once in a generation guard prospect? Well, I guess to draft him at #9 he'd have to be, considering the last two guards drafted in the top 10 were in 1997 and in 1986.

We need a pass rushing stud. We don't need a stud at guard. That's why I'm against drafting Warmack... especially at #9.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

LOL

There's so much fail in this post I don't even know where to begin.

There hasn't been a guard taken in the Top 10 in recent memory because there hasn't been a guard as talented as Warmack to come out in recent memory. He makes highly touted prospects like DeCastro and Iupati seem completely average in comparison.

And to say that it's impossible for us to find an impact passrusher outside of the 1st round is beyond retarded. The Ravens took Paul Kruger in the 3rd round three years ago, how's that working out? How about the Texans with Connor Barwin? The Steelers with Lamar Woodley?

So yeah, I'll take a sure thing like Warmack and someone like Brandon Jenkins or Alex Okafor in the 2nd/3rd round over some total tossup like Ansah or Mingo and a guard that can't even carry Warmack's jock.

Prospects like Warmack come along every 15-20 years. Guys like Ansah and Mingo come along every single draft.

The way u and Tony talk about this guy he shouldn't make it to pick 5.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by shuler82

So Warmack is now a once in a generation guard prospect? Well, I guess to draft him at #9 he'd have to be, considering the last two guards drafted in the top 10 were in 1997 and in 1986.

We need a pass rushing stud. We don't need a stud at guard. That's why I'm against drafting Warmack... especially at #9.

You say we don't "need" a stud OG.

I say we don't "need" a stud passrusher.

We don't need an Aldon Smith or DeMarcus Ware to field a successful defense. Has that not been proven over the past 4 years?

We need a guy who is athletic enough to get consistent pressure on the QB. Those guys aren't nearly as hard to find as you're making it out to be. We've simply made no effort to find that guy. The only DE/OLB that we've draft in the past 10 years, regardless of round, is Gholston.

The Texans found both Brooks Reed and Connor Barwin outside of Round 1.

The Steelers found Lamar Woodley outside of Round 1. Hell, they found James Harrison as an UDFA.

The list goes on.

We draft Warmack, then he steps in from day one and gives us the most dominant leftside OL in football. A guy like Ansah or Mingo probably doesn't even begin his career as a starter. Neither of these guys are Von Miller or Aldon Smith. They're the definition of boom or bust prospects. Ansah is basically a carbon copy of last years offseason wonderboy Whitney Mercilus.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

The way u and Tony talk about this guy he shouldn't make it to pick 5.

There's plenty of talk about the Browns taking him at #6.

Also, if a widely respected draft guru like Tony is touting this kid as the 2nd coming, that should tell you all you need to know.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by Johhny Johnson

In todays nfl unfortunately you really cant build a team through your defense its about explosive plays thats why the Niners went with Kapernick and the Ravens didnt win till the team became offense oriented..

Its hard to play D nowadays there are no more great defenses..Id say the Niners have the best D or at least as good as anyone and they were getting shredded for 300 passing yards in the 1st half of the nfc title game..

The Ravnes won the super bowl and their D gave up 500 yards in the super bowl far from great..

In todays NFL you have to build through your offense and hope to have a defense thats adequate enough

Tell me then how did the Giants beat the High flying Patriots twice. Both times with Plays made by 2 wide Receivers that didn't even make the roster the following year.

The Broncos defense made a mistake and allowed Flacco to make a play that should never have happen.

I don't know what to tell u, but if defense don't win Championships, why has the Lions and the Patriots and the Colts (with Manning)and the Packers with Rodgers won the SB yr after yr.

Did i miss something or are these the QBs and offenses who are the most prolific yr after year.

[shuler82]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

You say we don't "need" a stud OG.

I say we don't "need" a stud passrusher.

We don't need an Aldon Smith or DeMarcus Ware to field a successful defense. Has that not been proven over the past 4 years?

We need a guy who is athletic enough to get consistent pressure on the QB. Those guys aren't nearly as hard to find as you're making it out to be. We've simply made no effort to find that guy. The only DE/OLB that we've draft in the past 10 years, regardless of round, is Gholston.

The Texans found both Brooks Reed and Connor Barwin outside of Round 1.

The Steelers found Lamar Woodley outside of Round 1. Hell, they found James Harrison as an UDFA.

The list goes on.

We draft Warmack, then he steps in from day one and gives us the most dominant leftside OL in football. A guy like Ansah or Mingo probably doesn't even begin his career as a starter. Neither of these guys are Von Miller or Aldon Smith. They're the definition of boom or bust prospects. Ansah is basically a carbon copy of last years offseason wonderboy Whitney Mercilus.

Listen, I understand that this draft does not have a QB prospect worth taking at #9. I also understand that there's not a great RB or WR prospect to be had either... at least not one worthy of the #9 slot. I'll just be shocked if Warmack goes top 10 on draft day. Shocked.

[LIJetsFan]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Exactly

Why the hell people still want to model this team after the '85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens is beyond me.

Fix this pathetic offense already.

Why? Because our HC is one of the best defensive minds in football and our defense has an excellent shot at becomming elite. Over the past 4 years if Rex had simply a slightly above average QB us Jets fans would have seen results that we'd be proud of. Results based in large part on a rock soild defense.

Ok, I get it, you like offense. I like defense. I know it's a passing league, yada, yada, yada. Rex is a leader and not a follower. If we had a QB we'd all be flying high. Rex likes defense, we got Rex, I win.

All that being said, I still want Warmack at 9.

[Revis]

I've been reading up on Cordarrelle Patterson. Maybe 9 is a reach right now but if he has a great combine I can see him hopping in the top 10

[Rexipus Rex]

This offense is a lot more than a Chance Warmack away from being respectable. There's plenty of worthy interior linemen, RBs, and TEs to take after Round 1.

It's time we stopped ignoring the OLB position. In Tannenbaum's seven years as GM, he drafted a grand total of one OLB.

In that same span, here's how many OLBs other traditional 3-4 teams took:

Steelers: 5
Ravens: 5
49ers: 5

No wonder why we haven't had a double digit sacker since Abraham in 2005.

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by shuler82

Listen, I understand that this draft does not have a QB prospect worth taking at #9. I also understand that there's not a great RB or WR prospect to be had either... at least not one worthy of the #9 slot. I'll just be shocked if Warmack goes top 10 on draft day. Shocked.

I agree. The real question becomes what is the relative jump between hitting on a 1st v. 2nd round G or OLB. Also how often to said players hit the market. Guys like Yanda and Nicks were available in the 3rd and 5th round respectively.

Yanda- 3
Nicks- 5
Jahri Evans- 4
Mankins-1 (32)
Iupati- (17)
Grubbs- 1 (29)
Waters- UDFA
Shields- 3

[chillywilly]

At first i thought i wouldnt take him but now I wouldnt mind if we did. I guess it depends who else is there at 9. I think Mingo is gonna kill it at the combine so he wont be there.


NFL Network's Mike Mayock stated on the Rich Eisen Podcast that Alabama OG Chance Warmack is the best 2013 draft-eligible prospect he's seen on film.
"The best player I've seen on tape is the guard from Alabama, Chance Warmack," said Mayock. "Now he's not going No. 1, but he's the best football player (in the draft)." Mayock expects the 2013 draft to be heavy on offensive and defensive linemen in the first round, because they are the strength of the draft. Warmack is also Rotoworld draft analyst Josh Norris' top-rated 2013 player.




http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/...chance-warmack

[kcb160]

First, I have to admit that I like Warmack. However, I totally understand the arguments about drafting an OG that high. Having said that, our offense is dreadful. The same can not be said for our defense.

All things being equal, if there is an offensive guy sitting at 9 that has a similar grade to a defender then we must take the offensive player. We have ignored this offense far too long. Rex is supposed to be a defensive genius. He should not need the same talent that a lesser offensive coach needs to succeed.

The way the draft is stacking up, it looks like it will come down to a choice between an OL and an DE/OLB. We can not draft another DL in the first round. Three first round picks, three years in row will blow our cap up. You can't build a team that way in the salary cap era. As far as OLB is concerned, most of us have longed for a pass rushing OLB since Abraham's departure. Honestly though, the safest pick at that spot might be an OL and the offense needs all the help it can get.

Personally, I am rooting for this kid Patterson to show that he is the truth. Again, the D is light years ahead of the O. Otherwise, draft your defender and don't cry when the D is on the field 45 minutes every game and the O can't score and help the D feel like it is getting support from the O.

[kcb160]

One very important thing I forgot to say was that the other reason we can not draft a DL this year is that, God forbid we find ourselves in the position to draft Clowney next year (and he does not have a drop off in performance next season), all bets are off for that guy. We must draft him. If we did, we would wind up drafting four D linemen four years in a row.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by LIJetsFan

Ok, I get it, you like offense. I like defense.

I like both

That's why it makes no sense to me to stick with this silly ass plan of building a dominant defense while totally neglecting the offense.

If Rex is truly this genius defensive guru, then we shouldn't have to spend 1st round picks on the defensive side every single year just to field a Top 10 unit.

This is the same guy that developed late round picks and UDFA's like Jarrett Johnson, Bart Scott, Kelly Gregg, Justin Bannan, etc into worthwhile contributors in Baltimore. So why the hell does he need studs all over the place over here?

The offense has been ignored long enough. Get back to building a dominant OL so we can manhandle teams late in games.