There's A Trade Market

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet

YA Tittle didn't have a problem. I guess he had talent and a team around him and he made it in NY.

Trent Dilfer is another failed QB who was a bust in Tampa and won a SB in Baltimore.

You me and maybe 3 others know who Ya was.. Dilfer and Banks both played in 2000 but much like Sanchez in 09-10 the team was the real force not the QB's..

[Ray Ray19]

Originally Posted by JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF

No, the definition of an Asset is something that is beneficial to a person or organization. Sanchez is the definition of a Liability (in money terms at $8mm..can't wait till that comes off the books), he is now the worst starting QB in the League and has been lower tier ALL 4 years. I've never seen a pro QB have so much difficulty even hitting a RB coming out of the back field on screen in stride.

He'll be an afterthought once this season is over. He only started his Senior season in college and even worse he only started his senior season in HS. To reach up at #5 like they did for him in retrospect was just insane. I guarantee you that if he didn't have a pretty face he wouldn't have been picked by the Jets who blew $60M and wasted 5 years in the process, that was part of their thinking, "face of the Franchise", put him on a billboard in Times Sq.

Until we have management that makes clear, concise football decisions based on merit alone, we won't see another Super Bowl for 1,000 years.

Your Sanchez hatred and agenda have been noted.

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by long island leprechaun

While I'm done with Sanchez personally and agree that he has been overall pretty awful, there is another side to the coin. Sanchez has started 68 games in his professional career. Of those, he has had a QB rating of 90 or better in 21 (15 of those were 100 or better). He's had 11 games with a 65% completion rate; 7 games throwing 3 TD's or more, and 8 games where he threw more than 300 yards. Pitiful from an overall perspective, I know, but somehow maddening too, as he has shown occasions where he DOES have the basic skills and more to play at a professional level and lead his team. The whole problem with Sanchez is consistency, not fundamental ability/skills. And that consistency has gotten worse, for whatever reasons have been cited numerous times... low confidence, fear, flatness, whatever.

So the question is, will any other GM look at Sanchez's body of work and see something in the 25% of his career where he was actually pretty damn good and determine that there is something to salvage/build, or see the other 75% and consider him toast. Stranger things have happened, but my guess is that his current value is going to based on the 75%, not the 25%. Especially given that the consistency has deteriorated.

That's the difference between a good QB and bad QB. A good one brings it week in and week out. A bad one may have a good game here or there, but that doesn't mean he can be a good player.

We just have to accept that he's Joey Harrington and move on.

[long island leprechaun]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

That's the difference between a good QB and bad QB. A good one brings it week in and week out. A bad one may have a good game here or there, but that doesn't mean he can be a good player.

We just have to accept that he's Joey Harrington and move on.

Agreed. I wasn't arguing that we should retain him and hope we can turn around the 25%. I was saying that there may be a GM or coach out there who thinks he can unleash the Kraken in Sanchez under different circumstances. Problem is that they won't be able to do it cheaply, which is a deal-breaker as far as I can see. Also, I was just trying to address Tx's point that Sanchez is terrible because he doesn't have the skill set or physical ability to be an NFL QB. I really don't think that's the issue -- he wouldn't be able to shine in 25% of his performances if that wasn't there.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by long island leprechaun

Agreed. I wasn't arguing that we should retain him and hope we can turn around the 25%. I was saying that there may be a GM or coach out there who thinks he can unleash the Kraken in Sanchez under different circumstances. Problem is that they won't be able to do it cheaply, which is a deal-breaker as far as I can see. Also, I was just trying to address Tx's point that Sanchez is terrible because he doesn't have the skill set or physical ability to be an NFL QB. I really don't think that's the issue -- he wouldn't be able to shine in 25% of his performances if that wasn't there.

Maybe but Moore will always be Sanchez's favorite Kraken..

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by long island leprechaun

Also, I was just trying to address Tx's point that Sanchez is terrible because he doesn't have the skill set or physical ability to be an NFL QB. I really don't think that's the issue -- he wouldn't be able to shine in 25% of his performances if that wasn't there.

Sanchez has started 70 NFL games in his career.

Can you list the 18 games where he has "shinned"?

At best, you can count those games on one hand.

[long island leprechaun]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

Sanchez has started 70 NFL games in his career.

Can you list the 18 games where he has "shinned"?

At best, you can count those games on one hand.

All I'm saying is "bad QB's" take many forms. IMHO Sanchez suffers from terrible inconsistency and, at time, genuine panic. Those are not qualities to build ones future on. But I would argue that these are more psychological than physical deficits. Serious nevertheless -- probably fatal to his career. I also wonder about Sanchez's QB intelligence -- the ability to read and react effectively. He seems rather slow in this department....

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by long island leprechaun

All I'm saying is "bad QB's" take many forms. IMHO Sanchez suffers from terrible inconsistency and, at time, genuine panic. Those are not qualities to build ones future on. But I would argue that these are more psychological than physical deficits. Serious nevertheless -- probably fatal to his career. I also wonder about Sanchez's QB intelligence -- the ability to read and react effectively. He seems rather slow in this department....

+1 Very true..

[patman]

Originally Posted by long island leprechaun

Agreed. I wasn't arguing that we should retain him and hope we can turn around the 25%. I was saying that there may be a GM or coach out there who thinks he can unleash the Kraken in Sanchez under different circumstances. Problem is that they won't be able to do it cheaply, which is a deal-breaker as far as I can see. Also, I was just trying to address Tx's point that Sanchez is terrible because he doesn't have the skill set or physical ability to be an NFL QB. I really don't think that's the issue -- he wouldn't be able to shine in 25% of his performances if that wasn't there.

This is the real scenario. Sanchez is a guy that still has a chance to be a productive NFL qb. And I posted many times that there would be at least 25% of the nfl coaches that would want to give him an opportunity. But no coaching staff is going to dedicate more than 1 mill to see what the guy has and to see if they can bring him around in a year.

But the idea that Sanchez has trade value even at 3.5 mill a year is ridiculous. Both Moore and Campbell have shown at least as much skill and Alex Smith has shown more. Then throw in Flynn being available, Garrard if when he passes his physical, Plus other guys like Cassel, Henne, Hoyer and Quinn all there for free as vets with only Smith and Flynn making more than the proposed deal with the jets picking up 5 mill of Sanchez 3.75 bill.

The jets can trade Sanchez if they find another team that also has a under performing guy with 8 mill guaranteed that needs a back up qb.

[johnnysd]

We should eat the cap, designate him a June 1 cut and move on. He is a cancer to this team that needs to be removed. No reason to force his dead money into playing the worst starting QB in the NFL.

[patman]

Originally Posted by johnnysd

We should eat the cap, designate him a June 1 cut and move on. He is a cancer to this team that needs to be removed. No reason to force his dead money into playing the worst starting QB in the NFL.

See, I don't view him that way at all.he is a waste of money, but no one ever said a peep about the guy being a bad influence. What would sour the locker room would be if Sanchez is on the team and they don't give him a shot, just because he refused to give back his money.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by patman

See, I don't view him that way at all.he is a waste of money, but no one ever said a peep about the guy being a bad influence. What would sour the locker room would be if Sanchez is on the team and they don't give him a shot, just because he refused to give back his money.

He's not a bad guy but hell hath no fury like a jetfan scorned..

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19

WRONG, and this makes no sense. There is ALREADY a market for D Revis

Ray Ray you don't have a clue what your talking about. re Read this about 100 times and it might sink in. D Revis has in his contract that the Jets can't use the franchise tag on him making him an unrestricted Fa in 2014. Correct or you don't believe that the case.

Next Just say the Jets could get six round first rounders for D Revis(exaggeration) in a trade. Tell me that team can't come to terms on a contract extension( because Revis wants to test Fa in 2014) what happening with that trade. It's off. Do you agree or can the Jets force him to sign an extension.

Now last point Jets could offer him a boat load of money to stay with the Jets . again he wants to see what he can get in Fa(a lot of teams competing for his service). He doesn't have to sign that contract.

Now what options are left for the Jets. waiting for 2014 in free agency to see if they are going to be th highest bidders. They aren't and he gone.. you get nada. My statement was 100% accurate. There is no trade market for D Revis ,if Revis doesn't want to play ball. Yes the Jets can trade Revis even if he won't sign a contract extension but your getting a fifth rounder at best. ( one year rental).

back to the topic. there is no trade market for M Sanchez like there was no trade market for Titus Young and Rolndo McClain . where the last two are more poor attitudes ,Mark Sanchez is just because he isn't that good. you think teams don't watch tapes on players . The tape doesn't lie about M Sanchez it there for every GM to see for themselves. Good luck dreaming that you can get a pick for M Sanchez . M Sanchez has a better chance working in Adult films than being an Nfl Qb.

MAYBE some team might bring him in for a look if Jets cut him, but no one trading a pick for that right.

[patman]

Revis is starting to work out now and is already doing resistance work, but not running. Good for him.

There is a trade market for Revis even right now at this stage of his recovery.
There are factors that will determine how much compensation the jets will get.

At the time of the Trade:

1. Is he Ready to put a helmet on and run full speed?
2. he has played in Training camp.
4. His contract demands if he is willing to bypass FA.

In July, if he took part in full contact drills and is willing to sign a 6 year 72 mill contract I think the jets could get a 2014 #1 and another 1 in 2015 based on performance in 2014.

If he plays out the year and gets a 6 year 90 mill deal, I think the most the the jets get will be a 2nd it will be structured like Vilmas deal, if Revis goes to FA before the new team can sign him the comp is lower. If they have to outbid everybody for him all they are doing is renting him for 1 year for a 2nd.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by patman

Revis is starting to work out now and is already doing resistance work, but not running. Good for him.

There is a trade market for Revis even right now at this stage of his recovery.
There are factors that will determine how much compensation the jets will get.

At the time of the Trade:

1. Is he Ready to put a helmet on and run full speed?
2. he has played in Training camp.
4. His contract demands if he is willing to bypass FA.

In July, if he took part in full contact drills and is willing to sign a 6 year 72 mill contract I think the jets could get a 2014 #1 and another 1 in 2015 based on performance in 2014.

If he plays out the year and gets a 6 year 90 mill deal, I think the most the the jets get will be a 2nd it will be structured like Vilmas deal, if Revis goes to FA before the new team can sign him the comp is lower. If they have to outbid everybody for him all they are doing is renting him for 1 year for a 2nd.

Yes there is a trade market right now for D revis only if D Revis says so. Nobody trading anything for D Revis if he won't sign an extension with that team. If his heart is set on being a FA in 2014(Unrestricted) . Than there really isn't anything the Jets can do about it. Just have to get their check book ready to compete with a lot of teams for his service. He announces like flacco he isn't discussing his contract till 2014. The4y really don't have any recourse.(they gave up that right when they gave up the franchise tag)

YEs If Revis is willing to sign an extension with a team that trades for him, than there could be a trade market for him. The Jets are at the mercy of D revis. All facts. All this speculation that D Revis wants to protect himself against injury and will jump at chance to sign a new contract is just opinion. There is no facts whatso ever there to support that belief- just a lot of hope.

BTW Patman no one giving a second rounder for a one year rental- That's more like a fifth rounder at best, your looking at.

I(F Revis comes to camp and Jets didn't do anything than be prepared to see DE Revis want to test FA. Determine who will give him the most money, where he wants to play and what team can win him a championship. Why would you want the Jets to make that choice for you, when Revis and Sean Gilbert can figure out for themself the best situation for them.

[patman]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Yes there is a trade market right now for D revis only if D Revis says so. Nobody trading anything for D Revis if he won't sign an extension with that team. If his heart is set on being a FA in 2014(Unrestricted) . Than there really isn't anything the Jets can do about it. Just have to get their check book ready to compete with a lot of teams for his service. He announces like flacco he isn't discussing his contract till 2014. The4y really don't have any recourse.(they gave up that right when they gave up the franchise tag)

YEs If Revis is willing to sign an extension with a team that trades for him, than there could be a trade market for him. The Jets are at the mercy of D revis. All facts. All this speculation that D Revis wants to protect himself against injury and will jump at chance to sign a new contract is just opinion. There is no facts whatso ever there to support that belief- just a lot of hope.

BTW Patman no one giving a second rounder for a one year rental- That's more like a fifth rounder at best, your looking at.

I(F Revis comes to camp and Jets didn't do anything than be prepared to see DE Revis want to test FA. Determine who will give him the most money, where he wants to play and what team can win him a championship. Why would you want the Jets to make that choice for you, when Revis and Sean Gilbert can figure out for themself the best situation for them.

But you have to consider that the new team will most likely get a comp 3rd the following year, which is why I said a 2nd. I would be in favor of the pats giving a 2nd for Revis, (pick 60) he walks the next year the pats will get the
97 pick. it was similar to the Talib trade of a 4th this year and most likely the pats will get a 4th next year as a comp if he is not signed and that was only for 6 games. A full season of revis is worth the 4 mill, (3mill salary + 1mill roster bonus) So the pats wait a year to get a pick one rd later.

Anyway saying a 1st or a 2nd is a ridiculous statement anyway, The #10 is worth more than 2#30s or the number 35 is worth more than the 60th and a and the 92nd.

[mudcat21]

why can't Sanchez generate a market that would say give the Jets a 3rd round pick? A 3rd or multiple mid-round picks for a player who is still 26 years old, and has won 4 playoff games?

Let's hope one of the QB needy teams have a GM as dumb as Raytard to make this happen.

[GuidoYaztremski]

[56mehl56]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

Sanchez has started 70 NFL games in his career.

Can you list the 18 games where he has "shinned"?

At best, you can count those games on one hand.

Just curious, did you feel the same way about Tony Eason and his 41 starts from 83-86 with the Pats. He had a 58% completion pct threw 61 picks to 70 Td's . I'm sure you hold on to the fact he led the Pats to the 85-86 Sb and then made history by being the first QB to not complete a pass in the SB by going 0-6 and being pulled for Grogan. And oh yes the Pats got smoked by the Bears in that game 46-10.

Was he utter garbage like you claim Sanchez is ??

[patman]

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

Just curious, did you feel the same way about Tony Eason and his 41 starts from 83-86 with the Pats. He had a 58% completion pct threw 61 picks to 70 Td's . I'm sure you hold on to the fact he led the Pats to the 85-86 Sb and then made history by being the first QB to not complete a pass in the SB by going 0-6 and being pulled for Grogan. And oh yes the Pats got smoked by the Bears in that game 46-10.

Was he utter garbage like you claim Sanchez is ??

No, he was much better than Sanchez. And at this point in time Sanchez is utter garbage. Eason was never the worse qb in the league. and he threw 61 td and 51 int.

in the 70 games he played for the pats he passed the ball 1500 times with 900 completions a 58% . 60TD and 48 int and 22 fumbles.

In 62 games Sanchez threw the ball 1800 times with 1028 rec. 55% he threw 68 tds and 69 int and 43 fumbles.

So in 8 less games Sanchez threw 8 more TDs, 21 more int, and fumbled the ball 21 more times.

if you go by his 1st 4 years he threw 1273 times with 749 completions a 59% completion percentage with 54 TDs and 39 int and 20 fumbles

So how do you compare him to sanchez?

I hope you don't even want to compare how easy it is to pass now than what is was 25-30 years ago. and with having lance Mehl as a handle, I would think that you would know better than to compare the two since he beat the jets in the playoffs.