Was the lack of competition at QB Rex's fault?

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

See but you still don't get it , this is not about a love affair of a player, it could have been Tebow or Mcelroy or whatever other QB who graced the field for the past 4 years. Its about a HC and CS that failed to adapt their offensive system when their beloved philosophy was no longer effective. They wasted 2 years trying to force fit an archaic system when the team didn't have the resources to run it. .

The Jets adpated their offensive schemes not once but twice with two different offensive coordinstors, so don't tell me they didn't adapt their systems to fit what Sanchez does well. Yet SANCHEZ, and only SANCHEZ could not do anything with it.

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

I don't care if people don't agree with me, I may be proven wrong ,Rex may afterall become an offensive genius, and Sanchez might still suck but there's just as much chance I'm right and Rex was the reason this team has suffered on offense for the better part of three years. Its easy to blame the QB , I know the Giants fans did in Eli's first couple of seasons how'd that work out.

We all want the same thing I just won't go *****ing and screaming and threatening to boycott games and give up my season tickets because I know no matter how I feel I won't be able to influence the outcome anymore than anyone else on these boards.

It's not a matter you may be wrong. You are wrong.

I already laid out how Sanchez was given the best of everything in the way offensive weapons. He was even given two different OC's because Rex showed so much loyalty to this kid. He gave him opportunity after opportunity after opportunity. He spit the bit each and every time. Every one of those opportunities put him in position to do what Sanchez does best. The things he had shown in the past that he could do well.

He failed because he has ZERO poise in the pocket. He's also terribly inaccurate. He still cannot read defenses. He's a turnover machine. Those are the facts with Mark Sanchez. Just because you love him and want to defend him doesn't mean I am going to waste my time trying to talk to someone who has this weird man crush on a failed QB.

I'm done discussing this with you.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs

Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Tom Brady, Rodgers, Joe Namath the list of great NFL QB's who were appointed starting QB is endless.

You think Sanchez sucks, I don't think he's very good. Competition isn't going to change that. Coaching and surrounding him with talent might. It might not but giving reps to anyone else isn't making him better on opening day in a new offensive system.

You want the guy out because you think he sucks. Not unreasonable. Stop hiding behind the notion that you think competition is going to make Mark Sanchez a better QB. It's pure nonesense.

Each one of those QB's were told that they would go into TC as the projected starter. But they didn't simply get appointed. They still had to show that they were in fact the most talented QB of the bunch before they given the starting job. They won a QB competition in TC

To say they didn't is ludicrous. They proved each and every time that they were the guy that could lead the team by playing the best football. By playing good football you get respect from all of your teammates and that is when things like chemistry and unity are built, not because the HC happens to think this guy should be the starter because he does the best job shining his shoes. It's about actual accomplishments on the football field each and every day. It's about proving yourself each and every day.

[PatriotReign]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

I 100% agree with this. Thank you TX for telling the truth whether Jets fans want to hear it or not.

I would also venture it wasn't a matter of IF Drew Stanton played better, he would have played better no doubt. Because playing ANY other established veteran QB like Drew Stanton is, would have been addition by subtraction. At the very least you don't have SFB Sanchez throwing the ball up for grabs. The amount of turnovers the Jets offense committed would have been far less and likely would have rsulted in more wins.

You just know Stanton is kicking himself for demanding his release from the Jets. It's pretty evident that he would've had a real shot to takeover last season. IIRC he is on GB now(?) You gotta question the guy's logic in thinking he'd have a better shot at starting behind Rodgers than Sanchez/Tebow.

[56mehl56]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

The Jets adpated their offensive schemes not once but twice with two different offensive coordinstors, so don't tell me they didn't adapt their systems to fit what Sanchez does well. Yet SANCHEZ, and only SANCHEZ could not do anything with it.

They changed the Oc's but the scheme remained the same G&P. In fact the change to Sparano got Rex even closer to G&P then he ever was that's why he was handpicked by Rex.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

It's not a matter you may be wrong. You are wrong.

Open your mind , it may help you see the truth. Plus its a hell of a burden being right all of the time.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

I already laid out how Sanchez was given the best of everything in the way offensive weapons. He was even given two different OC's because Rex showed so much loyalty to this kid. He gave him opportunity after opportunity after opportunity. He spit the bit each and every time. Every one of those opportunities put him in position to do what Sanchez does best. The things he had shown in the past that he could do well.

Rex showed loyalty because A) he was a high draft pick of the regime B) as you've stated elsewhere he really did give the Jets the best chance to win, what were his options Brunell/Simms/McElroy/Tebow

Originally Posted by Mainejet

He failed because he has ZERO poise in the pocket. He's also terribly inaccurate. He still cannot read defenses. He's a turnover machine. Those are the facts with Mark Sanchez. Just because you love him and want to defend him doesn't mean I am going to waste my time trying to talk to someone who has this weird man crush on a failed QB.

I'm not saying he doesn't have flaws , he does, we all see them, his pocket presence and ball security are true issues. I don't buy the inaccurate and reading defenses part though. Those are part mainfestations of the **** offense that the Jets have deployed the past 2 years. Any QB will be inaccurate given the poor weapons that surrounded him and a scheme that would set any QB up to fail. Look how other QB's fare when they can't establish a run game. You need to magnify that by 10 in a system that's predicated by wanting to run the ball.

And once again its not a Sanchez issue , its the HC's vision that should be in question here, but your man crush on Rex can't get you past that. Hopefully, Rex has taken a step in the right direction by bringing in Mornhinweg, a new QB coach and admitting he needed to run a more explosive O. Can he stick to that or will he fall back to his old ways at the first sign of adversity only time will tell.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

I'm done discussing this with you.

Its your keyboard, its your choice.

[Winstonbiggs]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

each one of those QB's were told that they would go into TC as the projected starter. But they simply get appointed. They still had to show that they were in fact the most talented QB of the bunch before they given the starting job. They won a QB competition in TC

To say they didn't is ludicrous. They proved each and every time that they were the guy that could lead the team byplaying the best football. By playing good football you get respect from all of your teammates and that is when things like chemistry and unity are built, not because the HC happens to think this guy should be the starter because he does the best job shining his shoes. It's about actual accomplishments on the football field each and every day. It's about proving yourself each and every day.

Wrong but that won't stop you. If Sanchez was good, very good or great competition wouldn't even be a question. You are disguising your desire to get Mark out with a love for competition. Mark competed every day in the NFL it just wasn't up to the standard you want. Having a competition for the job wouldn't change his performance on the field during games.

The fact remains that Rex recognized that Mark Sanchez was the best QB on the roster. What you are complaining about is Marks performance in NFL Games.

The Giants had all kinds of locker room issues when Eli wasn't playing that well. They unloaded their all pro tight end and got lucky when their all pro running back decided he was going to be a TV star and retired.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs

Wrong but that won't stop you. If Sanchez was good, very good or great competition wouldn't even be a question. You are disguising your desire to get Mark out with a love for competition. Mark competed every day in the NFL it just wasn't up to the standard you want. Having a competition for the job wouldn't change his performance on the field during games.

The fact remains that Rex recognized that Mark Sanchez was the best QB on the roster. What you are complaining about is Marks performance in NFL Games.

The Giants had all kinds of locker room issues when Eli wasn't playing that well. They unloaded their all pro tight end and got lucky when their all pro running back decided he was going to be a TV star and retired.

Well, I do agree with you on one thing. Having a competition wouldn
t change his performance on the field, I agree. He is officially done. He sucks and everyone knows it.

But make no mistake about it he was NEVER challenged for anything and that is a big part why he sucks today.

He should have been challenged. He should have been challenged to keep focus on his skills and sharpening them each and every day.

Now, if you don't get the concept of competition and all the good that it does, then I think you should go live in a socialist society. I mean what the hell is the point of trying to be exceptional? After all, you'll always get the very same things as everyone else. There is no need to make/try to do things in a better manner.

This ENTIRE country is based on competition. Businesses COMPETE on a daily basis. Their employess COMPETE with other candidates to get their jobs. Salesman within that organization then COMPETE with each other for rewards/bonuses that the company gives out. Presidential candidates COMPETE to get their jobs. The NFL COMPETES in the entertainment market with other sports leagues for revenue. And YES, every position on a football team should be determined via competition.

If you don't get it, I don't care. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. But I've got news for you, you are alone in your belief that the QB of a football team should simply be appointed. It's the most insanely idiotic thing anyone could do.

[Winstonbiggs]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

Well, I do agree with you on one thing. Having a competition wouldn
t change his performance on the field, I agree. He is officially done. He sucks and everyone knows it.

But make no mistake about it he was NEVER challenged for anything and that is a big part why he sucks today.

He should have been challenged. He should have been challenged to keep focus on his skills and sharpening them each and every day.

Now, if you don't get the concept of competition and all the good that it does, then I think you should go live in a socialist society. I mean what the hell is the point of trying to be exceptional? After all, you'll always get the very same things as everyone else. There is no need to make/try to do things in a better manner.

This ENTIRE country is based on competition. Businesses COMPETE on a daily basis. Their employess COMPETE with other candidates to get their jobs. Salesman within that organization then COMPETE with each other for rewards/bonuses that the company gives out. Presidential candidates COMPETE to get their jobs. The NFL COMPETES in the entertainment market with other sports leagues for revenue. And YES, every position on a football team should be determined via competition.

If you don't get it, I don't care. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. But I've got news for you, you are alone in your belief that the QB of a football team should simply be appointed. It's the most insanely idiotic thing anyone could do.

Mark Sanchez wasn't appointed. He developed his talent against the best competition available throughout his development. He put himself up for the draft and the NY Jets organization in need of a QB with no veteran of any substance to lead an NFL team on the roster, decided to move up in the draft and take him based on the skill set he had shown both in competition and on tests performed by the team and various scouts and other teams.

The Jets like every other NFL team have a salary cap. The team starters on any stable decent team are almost entirely rated by a depth chart on a regular basis, before during and after the season. Key players take up an enormous portion of the salary cap and are virtual unchallenged or dumped on a regular basis. A few jobs are actually up for review through in team competition each year and they are generally at positions that are weak links on the team or where an ageing vet is in decline.

I own a company. I can assure you my executive staff is not in a competition against each other. That doesn't mean we aren't developing new talent we are and that doesn't mean we aren't in competition with our competitors we are.

Your analogy is simply either stupidity, ignorance of argumentative for the sack of argument. There are 32 NFL QB jobs and maybe 5 to 10 top quality QB's and a handful of QB's who are going to develop into top players. The problem isn't the internal competition the problem is the organization either made a bad choice or they have done a poor job in developing that pick to reach his potential at the next level. This idea that teams have multiple franchise QB's on their roster and if there was more internal competition they would all have one is simply irrational. What's worse is thinking the HC, a key member of the organization wasn't part of that decision and is simply the victim of the GM not drafting multiple potential franchise QB's to compete with each other.

At least you admit your real issue isn't competition it's simply that Sanchez isn't very good.

[rextilleon]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

I'm not so sure anymore. Tanny's interview on Fatty's show was very eye opening for me.

He took full responsibility for the teams woes and said he was the guy with final say on all players.

Mark Sanchez was never challenged in his career and IMO it has been part of the reason for a toxic lockerroom like so many fans have claimed.

Rex Ryan is also the kind of guy where if you were looking for answers to those kinds of questions you would never get an answer. Rex Ryan has some very good qualities. One of his best is his ability to always go TEAM. He never throws his players under the bus. Mark Sanchez was absolutely terrible last season. But you'd never know it if you were relying on Rex Ryan to tell things like they are. That is Rex Ryan protecting his players and shouldering the blame.

Those are rare qualities found in a HC. Besides Bill Parcells, I wonder if any other HC the Jets ever employed had as much character and honor.

My feeling is that this season is going to in stark contrast to Rex's first 4 seasons in NY. There will be straight up competition at almost every position on the field. I believe that will bring out the best in everyone and certainly end the lockerrom toxicity if there ever was any.

This is ridiculous. One of Ryan's major problems is that there is absolutely no accountability demanded of his players. Was Andrew Luck challenged? Was Griffith? Oh please, you are either a good QB or you aren't. Has nothing to do with competition.