Trading Cromartie

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

No I Agree this is about what he'll end up getting, but he won't believe it until he hits free agency. It wouldn't shock me if he sits out a couple games when no one gives him what he wants. Revis bein Revis

If he does that, wouldn't that extend his current contract with the Jets, thus voiding his FA status in 2014?

I thought that was the trade-off of the Jets not being able to use the Franchise Tag on him.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

This is the over whelming response by smart fans and almost every analyst.

This is from a website that actually analyzes and breaks down film, www.turnonthejets.com.

The issue of whether the Jets should trade Darrelle Revis or Antonio Cromartie this year has been a hot topic amongst fans for some time now. But how realistic is it to even put those two names together in a sentence – much less to suggest that any NFL team might see Cromartie as a reasonable alternative to Revis?

If anything is beyond dispute in this debate, it’s that Cromartie had an outstanding campaign in 2012. When Revis fell foul of a torn ACL in Week 3, the whole organization looked to the former Seminole in the hope that he might be able to step up and fill the gaping hole that was left in the Jets secondary.

But although Cromartie did have considerable success while filling in for Revis this season, there is still good reason to suggest that he remains a long way short of deserving the ‘Shutdown Corner’ status that many fans have been quick to adorn him with, and despite his impressive numbers coupled with a gazelle-like pursuit speed, evidence abounds to indicate that he is the footballing equivalent of Fool’s Gold.

One way of distinguishing whether or not a cornerback is respected around the league is to simply consider how many times opposing quarterbacks have thrown the ball in his direction. Last year, Cromartie was targeted 87 times – which works out at an impressive average of 5.43 targets per game. This statistic even measures up against Revis’s 2011 numbers, when he was targeted 85 times.

In terms of how many times those targets resulted in a completion, things are still looking reasonably good for Cromartie – his 2012 return of 46% was only slightly worse than Revis’s 41.2% in 2011.

In most statistical categories, this pattern continues – the numbers put up by Cromartie last year are either similar to or slightly worse than those posted by Revis a year before – and so both defenders look to be glittering nicely. But then we come to a statistic which suddenly suggests an entirely different picture. Touchdowns. In 2012 Cromartie gave up 5 TDs – a number that had him tied for 91st* in the NFL alongside the likes of Buffalo’s Aaron Williams and Cleveland’s Buster Skrine. In 2011, Revis conceded one.

The numbers also prove to be consistent over the years: In 2010 Cromartie gave up 7 TDs, and in 2011 he was responsible for 6. Yet while the last 3-year spell of Cromartie’s career has resulted in him giving up a whopping 19 TDs, Revis – in his last fully-fit three years – gave up a grand total of 6. This is where Cromartie’s problem lies – when he’s defending with plenty of open field at his back, he’s fine. Yet if you throw at him in a confined space – let’s say inside the red zone, the chances are that you’ll get somewhere near the result that you’re hoping for.

The reason for this is quite simple: Cromartie is not an intelligent football player, and when faced with a split-second decision whilst in coverage he will all-too often make the incorrect choice. Fortunately he does possess outstanding speed and athletic ability, and so on deeper routes he is often able to recover his position whilst the ball is in the air. But pen him inside an area where he can’t use his phenomenal recovery speed and you’ve got a problem. (This, incidentally, was the main reason why San Diego were prepared to trade him in the first place. When they considered switching to a predominantly zone defense it became quickly apparent that Cromartie was inacapable of being effective when assigned to patrol an enclosed area of the field).

By the time the 2013 season begins, Cromartie will be 29-years-old, and while that’s by no means ancient for a cornerback, it’s most certainly getting towards the Golden Years for a player who depends almost entirely upon his speed. Even assuming that he enjoys good health over the next few years, it seems fair to say that it would be a surprise to see him as a starter much beyond 2014. Historically-speaking, the careers of players such as Cromartie don’t tend to tail off, they have a habit of dropping off cliffs.

So for all that he had an excellent campaign in 2012, don’t expect that NFL teams will be falling over themselves to give up first or second-round draft picks in exchange for Cromartie. That’s not to say that teams wouldn’t be interested – undoubtedly they would – but it would be a massive mistake to expect that they’ll cough up anywhere near the kind of booty that would be demanded in order to secure the services of a genuine Shutdown Corner.

[SizzleBear287]

If we're looking to rebuild (which might be the best option given the current state of the team), we should look to trade/cut as many pricey vets as possible. I've long been and still am a much bigger fan of Revis than Cro- it's becoming inevitable that Revis won't be a Jet in September but is it conceivable they could trade both of them?

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

If he does that, wouldn't that extend his current contract with the Jets, thus voiding his FA status in 2014?

I thought that was the trade-off of the Jets not being able to use the Franchise Tag on him.

I'm talking about after he becomes a FA and finds out that no one will pay him what he wants. He still won't accept it right away.

[detjetsfan]

Cro is a top 5 CB who will cost a fraction of the money Revis will cost and less years of guaranteed money. Get a 2nd for him and resign Revis.

[Long Suffering Jets Fan]

Originally Posted by southside

This has nothing to do with who's better and using the money wisely.

Woody Johnson has had enough of Revis and his agents. They negotiate in bad faith and they've created this situation. Johnson simply doesn't want Revis on the team any longer.

This is an interesting perspective. If this is the case, all bets are off. Personal feelings could get in the way of logic. God know's we've seen this before from Woody. Take a look at the Santonio Holmes signing. Woody thinks he's the best player on the planet after he was dumped by Pittsburgh for a 5th rounder, because they had had enough of him. So they sign him for $24M in guaranteed money. For that money they could have had 4-6 solid players. Instead no players and Braylon and Cotch are sent packing. All the for a player that has been over 1000 yards one time.

[Long Suffering Jets Fan]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

It goes beyond that though. How much signing bonus are you giving him? Because even with a modest signing bonus his 13 million a year salary will probably count around 17 million against the cap with his prorated bonus.

The 13M would be total average compensation inclusive of salary and bonuses, both guaranteed and not guaranteed.

Mario Williams signed a contract averaging $16M/year for 6 years. The total value of the contract was 6x16 or $96M of guaranteed and not guaranteed money. The contract included a $19M signing bonus. The following are the cap numbers for 2012 and 2013:

2012:

Salary 5.9M
Prorated Bonus 3.8M
Workout Bonus .1M
Cap Value 9.8M
Cap savings if cut = -15.1M

2013:

Salary 6.5M
Prorated Bonus 5.4M
Workout Bonus .5M
Cap Value 12.4M
Cap savings if cut = -2.8M

By the third year they could get out of the contract and get money back if they cut him.

[Long Suffering Jets Fan]

Originally Posted by jets rooter

if the jets fans are thinking of trading cromartie.then who do they think would replace him.

Obviously Revis.

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by Long Suffering Jets Fan

This is an interesting perspective. If this is the case, all bets are off. Personal feelings could get in the way of logic. God know's we've seen this before from Woody. Take a look at the Santonio Holmes signing. Woody thinks he's the best player on the planet after he was dumped by Pittsburgh for a 5th rounder, because they had had enough of him. So they sign him for $24M in guaranteed money. For that money they could have had 4-6 solid players. Instead no players and Braylon and Cotch are sent packing. All the for a player that has been over 1000 yards one time.

Yeah but Tone would have hit 1,000 yards last season if he had Tebow throwing to him instead of Suckchez.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

If he does that, wouldn't that extend his current contract with the Jets, thus voiding his FA status in 2014?

I thought that was the trade-off of the Jets not being able to use the Franchise Tag on him.

It is but Revis fan-boys don't give a crap about contracts just like their hero..

[PMarsico9]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

This is from a website that actually analyzes and breaks down film, www.turnonthejets.com.

The issue of whether the Jets should trade Darrelle Revis or Antonio Cromartie this year has been a hot topic amongst fans for some time now. But how realistic is it to even put those two names together in a sentence – much less to suggest that any NFL team might see Cromartie as a reasonable alternative to Revis?

If anything is beyond dispute in this debate, it’s that Cromartie had an outstanding campaign in 2012. When Revis fell foul of a torn ACL in Week 3, the whole organization looked to the former Seminole in the hope that he might be able to step up and fill the gaping hole that was left in the Jets secondary.

But although Cromartie did have considerable success while filling in for Revis this season, there is still good reason to suggest that he remains a long way short of deserving the ‘Shutdown Corner’ status that many fans have been quick to adorn him with, and despite his impressive numbers coupled with a gazelle-like pursuit speed, evidence abounds to indicate that he is the footballing equivalent of Fool’s Gold.

One way of distinguishing whether or not a cornerback is respected around the league is to simply consider how many times opposing quarterbacks have thrown the ball in his direction. Last year, Cromartie was targeted 87 times – which works out at an impressive average of 5.43 targets per game. This statistic even measures up against Revis’s 2011 numbers, when he was targeted 85 times.

In terms of how many times those targets resulted in a completion, things are still looking reasonably good for Cromartie – his 2012 return of 46% was only slightly worse than Revis’s 41.2% in 2011.

In most statistical categories, this pattern continues – the numbers put up by Cromartie last year are either similar to or slightly worse than those posted by Revis a year before – and so both defenders look to be glittering nicely. But then we come to a statistic which suddenly suggests an entirely different picture. Touchdowns. In 2012 Cromartie gave up 5 TDs – a number that had him tied for 91st* in the NFL alongside the likes of Buffalo’s Aaron Williams and Cleveland’s Buster Skrine. In 2011, Revis conceded one.

The numbers also prove to be consistent over the years: In 2010 Cromartie gave up 7 TDs, and in 2011 he was responsible for 6. Yet while the last 3-year spell of Cromartie’s career has resulted in him giving up a whopping 19 TDs, Revis – in his last fully-fit three years – gave up a grand total of 6. This is where Cromartie’s problem lies – when he’s defending with plenty of open field at his back, he’s fine. Yet if you throw at him in a confined space – let’s say inside the red zone, the chances are that you’ll get somewhere near the result that you’re hoping for.

The reason for this is quite simple: Cromartie is not an intelligent football player, and when faced with a split-second decision whilst in coverage he will all-too often make the incorrect choice. Fortunately he does possess outstanding speed and athletic ability, and so on deeper routes he is often able to recover his position whilst the ball is in the air. But pen him inside an area where he can’t use his phenomenal recovery speed and you’ve got a problem. (This, incidentally, was the main reason why San Diego were prepared to trade him in the first place. When they considered switching to a predominantly zone defense it became quickly apparent that Cromartie was inacapable of being effective when assigned to patrol an enclosed area of the field).

By the time the 2013 season begins, Cromartie will be 29-years-old, and while that’s by no means ancient for a cornerback, it’s most certainly getting towards the Golden Years for a player who depends almost entirely upon his speed. Even assuming that he enjoys good health over the next few years, it seems fair to say that it would be a surprise to see him as a starter much beyond 2014. Historically-speaking, the careers of players such as Cromartie don’t tend to tail off, they have a habit of dropping off cliffs.

So for all that he had an excellent campaign in 2012, don’t expect that NFL teams will be falling over themselves to give up first or second-round draft picks in exchange for Cromartie. That’s not to say that teams wouldn’t be interested – undoubtedly they would – but it would be a massive mistake to expect that they’ll cough up anywhere near the kind of booty that would be demanded in order to secure the services of a genuine Shutdown Corner.

Yeah but he's 6'2". This article stinks simply because no CB is worth 17-18 million a year. Any team willing to pay that is stupid. He won't sign for the Jets for less, and honestly, how can you blame him?

This roster has gone to absolute garbage during his time here. He'll end up signing in Atlanta or San Francisco for about 12 million a year.

If he ends up with San Fran that team could win 2-3 super bowls over the next 5 years.

[PMarsico9]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

Cro is a top 5 CB who will cost a fraction of the money Revis will cost and less years of guaranteed money. Get a 2nd for him and resign Revis.

I agree with this.

Consider this, too: How many of the past, what, 10 Super Bowl winners have had a CB as their highest paid Defensive player in average salary?

[Long Suffering Jets Fan]

Originally Posted by PMarsico9

I agree with this.

Consider this, too: How many of the past, what, 10 Super Bowl winners have had a CB as their highest paid Defensive player in average salary?

From ESPN:

ESPN New York reports there is a "small segment" of the Jets' organization that would prefer to trade Antonio Cromartie over Darrelle Revis.
Cromartie is coming off a career-best year where he was asked to cover the offense's No. 1 receiver in Revis' absence. He also has two years left on his deal, and his trade value has never been higher. Due $9.5 million in 2013, the Jets would only take a cap hit of $2.5 million by trading Cromartie, instead of the $12 million hit they'd endure for dealing Revis. Cromartie is due a $2.3 million roster bonus on March 14, so a deal would have to be struck before then. Rex Ryan is believed to be of the contingent that supports trading Cromartie instead of Revis.

So let's see if they pay Cromartie his roster bonus. I say they will, due to Revis injury.

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by PMarsico9

I agree with this.

Consider this, too: How many of the past, what, 10 Super Bowl winners have had a CB as their highest paid Defensive player in average salary?

Packers maybe in 2010 with Woodson? But point well taken most teams the highest paid player in defense is either OLB or DE.


If I'm an NFL GM Cromartie is a much more desirable target than Revis. Less costly both in picks and money and still an elite CB who shut down the likes of Andre Johnson and other elite WRs last year.

[PMarsico9]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

Packers maybe in 2010 with Woodson? But point well taken most teams the highest paid player in defense is either OLB or DE.


If I'm an NFL GM Cromartie is a much more desirable target than Revis. Less costly both in picks and money and still an elite CB who shut down the likes of Andre Johnson and other elite WRs last year.

And the reason being, as anybody who has watched Jets games during Revis' career will agree with:

It doesn't matter how great your CBs and secondary are unless you have a guy or a group that can penetrate and get to the QB.

The 2009 team had one of the best defenses of the past 5 or so years and they did not have Cro, but they had Revis and Jenkins, who while they didn't have a huge sack guy, they, as a group, and the consistent penetration by Jenkins caused havoc.

You can have Rod Woodson, greatest CB in history, but eventually the coverage will break down because the receivers are improvising at that point.

Anybody who's played touch football knows this.