OT: Knicks to trade Kurt Thomas to Phoenix for Quentin Richardson - Page 3 - Jets Insider.com Forums

patman · 06-24-2005, 05:13 AM

Isiah Thomas, sucks as bad as Rick Pitino at building a NBA team. He kept the celts drifting in no mans land for 5 years. How Isiah holds on to his job is a testimony to how stupid the Dolan's are.

All he had to due was let the guys that he inherited contracts expire, and trade what you could for future #1s ( i dont care if the picks are in the 20's or the 2nd rd.) and the team would be better off today. I know they would still be stuck with Houstons contract but that would be it.

It took Bradway a couple of years, but at least he caught on, thomas is still as dumb as they come.

Ray Ray19 · 06-24-2005, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patman

Isiah Thomas, sucks as bad as Rick Pitino at building a NBA team. He kept the celts drifting in no mans land for 5 years. How Isiah holds on to his job is a testimony to how stupid the Dolan's are.

All he had to due was let the guys that he inherited contracts expire, and trade what you could for future #1s ( i dont care if the picks are in the 20's or the 2nd rd.) and the team would be better off today. I know they would still be stuck with Houstons contract but that would be it.

It took Bradway a couple of years, but at least he caught on, thomas is still as dumb as they come.

The guy has been the GM for a year in a half. He rebuilt the Pacers who have been a contending team the last several years, he began rebuilding the Raptors and didn't get a chance to finish.

Anybody who criticizes him for the Knicks is just downright ignorant. He inherited a MESS, a cap mess as well as a talent mess, the team's key player before he arrived has not played in nearly two years, the team has been strapped with the dumbest contract in franchise history given to that player, the rebuilding process began beneath the BASEMENT. It will take more than a year to clean it up.

Ray Ray19 · 06-24-2005, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Anyway, you are wrong about Houston. His coming off the cap affects the Knicks luxury tax status. it does not affect the actual salary cap status of the team. The teams cap remains the same as it was last season. I dont see how Richardson gives them an athletic "shooter". Hes not a shooter. Hes a nice option outside off the break or as a backup. You are claiming he is going to play the same role they had hoped Crawford would take up. Crawford didnt so not so why should this guy? Hes a career under 40% shooter isnt he? Thats not a great shooter. Hes a guy who plays a role for a good team, not a guy expected to be a great player to carry a team.

The union is actually in the process of seeking out cap relief as well as luxury tax relief, so I'm not wrong, I read this yesterday.

Richardson is absolutely a shooter, what the hell are you watching? He's also till just 25, he does need to develop more consisentcy, but the ability is there.

How the hell can this trade be considered a "trade just to make a trade?"

The Knicks need to replace Houston, they needed an athletic swingman, who can shoot, it is a NEED, as is a big man for the frontcourt. The Knicks now addressed this without yet using a draft pick, and did it by trading for a young stud in Richardson, who had somewhat of a breakout year last year with the Suns. The guy still has a lot of potential to be even more than that. In Crawford and Richardson, they now have two very young players with a ton of ability, who will now advance the team to match up and compete with some of the better players in the league. This league is dominated by the athletic player, the Knicks didn't have an answer to stop the Dwayne Wade's, the Kobe Bryants, the Tracy McGrady's. Sure, they don't have an answer for Shaquille O'neal either, but who in this league does?

Jason423 · 06-24-2005, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19

The union is actually in the process of seeking out cap relief as well as luxury tax relief, so I'm not wrong, I read this yesterday.

Richardson is absolutely a shooter, what the hell are you watching? He's also till just 25, he does need to develop more consisentcy, but the ability is there.

How the hell can this trade be considered a "trade just to make a trade?"

The Knicks need to replace Houston, they needed an athletic swingman, who can shoot, it is a NEED, as is a big man for the frontcourt. The Knicks now addressed this without yet using a draft pick, and did it by trading for a young stud in Richardson, who had somewhat of a breakout year last year with the Suns. The guy still has a lot of potential to be even more than that. In Crawford and Richardson, they now have two very young players with a ton of ability, who will now advance the team to match up and compete with some of the better players in the league. This league is dominated by the athletic player, the Knicks didn't have an answer to stop the Dwayne Wade's, the Kobe Bryants, the Tracy McGrady's. Sure, they don't have an answer for Shaquille O'neal either, but who in this league does?

Please point me to the articles where the union is pushing for cap relief for a guy like Houston for an NBA team. The most I have seen is that if Houstons injury is a career ending one he would only count one more season versus the cap.

Houston has barely played in 2 years now. And you are saying that just now they need a guy to replace him? I thought Thomas was the atletic swingman. Or maybe it was Crawford. Or maybe Penny. How many athletic "potential" guys can a team have? And please dont say Q is a shooter. Just for once go and look up his stats and look at his %. Now sort those stats under forwards and guards. See where he ranks. It aint pretty. Now do the same for 3 pt %. Looking like a real shooter right? Its certainly not a replacement for Houston whose job was to go run around screens hit the mid range jumper and the occasional three. Richardsons game is to run up and down the court and either go out on the break or (and this was more for last season) be either the 3 pt outlet on the break or the 3 pt guy getting the shot when teams doubled in the post.

So now the team has how many swingmen on this team? 4, 5? They have no true PG nor a true SG. I understand Thomas didnt get along with Marbury, but you just dont trade size for a decent no position player when you already have a bunch of guys playing that spot regardless of age. If Richardson was going to light the league on fire he would have done so already.

But still I want to see where Thomas has done a good job with the Knicks. In what way do you feel the Knicks are a superior team to where they were when Layden screwed it all up? They are more athletic than Laydens team, but they are also more cap strapped and the bottom line is they are playing either at the same level as the Layden era team or worse.

Jason423 · 06-24-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetKoz

I
you can make an argument that Richardson is younger than Thomas, but by the time the Knicks will actually field a good team, Richardson will be as old as Thomas is right now.

Great Point. I made a point like that on the NBA board last year I believe before they made the Rose and Taylor moves. the Knicks are in such bad shape with the cap that by the time they can maybe start getting some good free agents they are already locked in for a bunch of money with Marbury and Crawford as well as a few other spare parts. Certain fans and media people like to say they have Marbury locked up for years so when they are ready to contend hes there to steer the ship, but by that time Marbury wont be Marbury anymore. Hell be the aging veteran that people will start saying is the weak link of the team. Same goes for Crawford and now Richardson.

JetKoz · 06-24-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19

The guy has been the GM for a year in a half. He rebuilt the Pacers who have been a contending team the last several years, he began rebuilding the Raptors and didn't get a chance to finish.

Anybody who criticizes him for the Knicks is just downright ignorant. He inherited a MESS, a cap mess as well as a talent mess, the team's key player before he arrived has not played in nearly two years, the team has been strapped with the dumbest contract in franchise history given to that player, the rebuilding process began beneath the BASEMENT. It will take more than a year to clean it up.

then how do you explain Isiah making the cap situation WORSE since he got here? Usually, the idea is to clear up space. He has taken on ridiculous contracts such as Penny and Rose since he got there. I wouldn't put it past him to trade these guys the year their contract expires for more overbearing contracts.

I know, I know, that might sound SHOCKING to you. Why bother clearing cap space when you get make 10000 trades for the same skill level players?

petejet · 06-24-2005, 01:12 PM

Hey, thank God the Knicks locked up this guy for Kurt Thomas.

Richardson expressed disappointment, especially after helping the Suns win 62 games. Also, he and his wife, the singer Brandy, are building a new home in Phoenix. "It's not something I wanted but it's something I accept," Richardson told the Arizona Republic. "I'm not trying to be angry or spiteful. They're trying to better the team and I can't be mad at that. When we're not playing the Suns, I'm still going to be a Suns fan."

norm428 · 06-24-2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetKoz

sounds like another horrible Knicks trade
giving up their best inside presence (which isn't saying too much)
and a 1st rounder

for yet ANOTHER shooting guard/forward

why do they even bother anymore?

on the first page in the sports section in todays newsday, it said the pheonix is giving up the first rounder, not us.

mbn007 · 06-27-2005, 02:54 PM

This is a very good acquisition for Kurt Thomas. 33 years old, 3 more years on his contract, not an inside presence, taking time away from Sweetney. In exchange the Knicks get a guy who is a post up guard, but was forced to play as a gunslinger for the Suns. It took him time to adjust his game, but he did. He won't take 600 three pointers as a Knick, but he will use his 6"6, 230 pounds to post up most "2" guards. He averaged about 6 boards a game, which is darn good for a "2".

And, getting a first rounder makes it all the more sweet. True, the 1st rounder may not be here for a couple of seasons, but it still is a good deal. Knicks improved at the "2" guard position, and have replaced Houston. Marbury, Crawford and Quentin are all under 28. Nice youth for you 3-some at the guard slots.

It was not a steal, but it is a good deal from the Knicks point of view. Now, either Frye, or that High School kid is coming, and there will be a deal for some kind of big man down the line, or a MLE signing, like James from Seattle, to give us 20 minutes a night.

cr726 · 06-27-2005, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19
The guy has been the GM for a year in a half. He rebuilt the Pacers who have been a contending team the last several years, he began rebuilding the Raptors and didn't get a chance to finish.

Donnie Walsh has been the GM for the Pacers for years and Thomas was thrown out of Indiana. Thomas is an unproven in the basketball management area and does not seem to on verge of anything special. He has inherited a mess and this next season will be the make or break year for him.

C Mart · 06-27-2005, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr726

Donnie Walsh has been the GM for the Pacers for years and Thomas was thrown out of Indiana. Thomas is an unproven in the basketball management area and does not seem to on verge of anything special. He has inherited a mess and this next season will be the make or break year for him.

Isiah was GM of Toronto and drafted Camby, McGrady and Damon Stoudamire...I'll take my chances with Isiah as a talent evaluator...

cr726 · 06-27-2005, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Mart

Isiah was GM of Toronto and drafted Camby, McGrady and Damon Stoudamire...I'll take my chances with Isiah as a talent evaluator...

I am pretty sure Thomas left earlier in the year before the Raptors drafted McGrady. As for Camby and Stoudamire? You can't actually believe that they were good picks? Stoudamire had a few good years and Camby has not a stellar career.

Look at Thomas' trades since he has been with the Knicks. Starbury? You are going to build a team around a shoot first, second and pass third point guard?

mbn007 · 06-28-2005, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr726

I am pretty sure Thomas left earlier in the year before the Raptors drafted McGrady. As for Camby and Stoudamire? You can't actually believe that they were good picks? Stoudamire had a few good years and Camby has not a stellar career.

Look at Thomas' trades since he has been with the Knicks. Starbury? You are going to build a team around a shoot first, second and pass third point guard?

Thomas did draft all 3 of those guys, including the McGready draft. He took a lot of heat for that one, but I would venture to say the guy has become a decent NBA player.

Camby has all the talent. He was a major force for the Knicks in 1999, when they went to the finals. He couldn't do it all himself, and when Ewing got hurt in the playoffs, Camby was all alone. Robinson/Duncan was too much for him.

Camby was a force with teh Nuggets this year. When healthy, he has performed. Health has been his biggest drawback.

Isaih knows talent. His trades may be questionable, but he is a very astute talent evaluator of kids.

cr726 · 06-29-2005, 09:54 PM

Thomas has a great draft last night. I was wrong about him.

06-24-2005, 05:13 AM	#41
patman happy to be here All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,177	Isiah Thomas, sucks as bad as Rick Pitino at building a NBA team. He kept the celts drifting in no mans land for 5 years. How Isiah holds on to his job is a testimony to how stupid the Dolan's are. All he had to due was let the guys that he inherited contracts expire, and trade what you could for future #1s ( i dont care if the picks are in the 20's or the 2nd rd.) and the team would be better off today. I know they would still be stuck with Houstons contract but that would be it. It took Bradway a couple of years, but at least he caught on, thomas is still as dumb as they come.

06-24-2005, 01:12 PM	#47
petejet Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Huntington, NY Posts: 8,222	Hey, thank God the Knicks locked up this guy for Kurt Thomas. Richardson expressed disappointment, especially after helping the Suns win 62 games. Also, he and his wife, the singer Brandy, are building a new home in Phoenix. "It's not something I wanted but it's something I accept," Richardson told the Arizona Republic. "I'm not trying to be angry or spiteful. They're trying to better the team and I can't be mad at that. When we're not playing the Suns, I'm still going to be a Suns fan."

06-27-2005, 02:54 PM	#49
mbn007 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,587	This is a very good acquisition for Kurt Thomas. 33 years old, 3 more years on his contract, not an inside presence, taking time away from Sweetney. In exchange the Knicks get a guy who is a post up guard, but was forced to play as a gunslinger for the Suns. It took him time to adjust his game, but he did. He won't take 600 three pointers as a Knick, but he will use his 6"6, 230 pounds to post up most "2" guards. He averaged about 6 boards a game, which is darn good for a "2". And, getting a first rounder makes it all the more sweet. True, the 1st rounder may not be here for a couple of seasons, but it still is a good deal. Knicks improved at the "2" guard position, and have replaced Houston. Marbury, Crawford and Quentin are all under 28. Nice youth for you 3-some at the guard slots. It was not a steal, but it is a good deal from the Knicks point of view. Now, either Frye, or that High School kid is coming, and there will be a deal for some kind of big man down the line, or a MLE signing, like James from Seattle, to give us 20 minutes a night.

06-27-2005, 09:45 PM	#50
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,526	Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 The guy has been the GM for a year in a half. He rebuilt the Pacers who have been a contending team the last several years, he began rebuilding the Raptors and didn't get a chance to finish. Donnie Walsh has been the GM for the Pacers for years and Thomas was thrown out of Indiana. Thomas is an unproven in the basketball management area and does not seem to on verge of anything special. He has inherited a mess and this next season will be the make or break year for him.

06-29-2005, 09:54 PM	#54
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,526	Thomas has a great draft last night. I was wrong about him.