Spanish a requirement in NJ schools?

CTM · 10-05-2006, 08:53 PM

Not sure if this has been discussed here yet, or if it even warrants a discussion, but what are the thoughts on this? My stepdaughter started 3rd grade this year and has a required course in Spanish. Not optional, required, just like Math, Science and English.

I'm pretty perturbed by this, not that I have anything against learning another language, but why a requirement? Especially considering how far american kids are behind in the universal languages of science, math, music and arts...

Lawyers, Guns and Money · 10-05-2006, 09:56 PM

[QUOTE=ChanTheMaster]Not sure if this has been discussed here yet, or if it even warrants a discussion, but what are the thoughts on this? My stepdaughter started 3rd grade this year and has a required course in Spanish. Not optional, required, just like Math, Science and English.

I'm pretty perturbed by this, not that I have anything against learning another language, but why a requirement? Especially considering how far american kids are behind in the universal languages of science, math, music and arts...[/QUOTE]

Just more ammo as to why the Govt should get out of the education business......but I know I know, they know whats best for me!!

JetsFan2012 · 10-05-2006, 11:24 PM

it's not necessarily a bad thing, kids all over the world (especially europe) are pretty proficient with English as a second language. I think a second language should be mandtory, but you should have a choice of what to take.

BrooklynBound · 10-05-2006, 11:31 PM

hmm, what would it be replacing? i'd rather them take spanish than gym

CanadaSteve · 10-05-2006, 11:34 PM

[QUOTE=Lawyers, Guns and Money]Just more ammo as to why the Govt should get out of the education business......but I know I know, they know whats best for me!![/QUOTE]

YEah right....and let private corporations come in with big money and teach the kids value....like how to work for big corporations.

No thanks..

CanadaSteve · 10-05-2006, 11:35 PM

[QUOTE=BrooklynBound]hmm, what would it be replacing? i'd rather them take spanish than gym[/QUOTE]

Hence why there is an obescity problem in our children--NO EXERCISE

Warfish · 10-05-2006, 11:37 PM

Two thoughts come immediately to mind:

--Useful

--Wrong

It's a useful skill, but it's sad we've come to a point where Spanish is all but required in America now, where one grouo refuses to join us all in the melting pot, and instead demands the rest of us change to fit their culture. Useful, but wrong.

BrooklynBound · 10-05-2006, 11:38 PM

[QUOTE=CanadaSteve]Hence why there is an obescity problem in our children--NO EXERCISE[/QUOTE]

kids are fat because they go home, eat junk and sit in front of the tv/PC all night... not because they spend 45 mins in the outfield of a wiffleball game. i agree kids need to exercise, but i think the school day should be spend on their minds. they get out at 3:30-4, plenty of time for sports/exercise after.

i'm not really looking to get rid of gym, persay, but i think learning a second language is much more valuable

BrooklynBound · 10-05-2006, 11:40 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]Two thoughts come immediately to mind:

--Useful

--Wrong

It's a useful skill, but it's sad we've come to a point where Spanish is all but required in America now, where one grouo refuses to join us all in the melting pot, and instead demands the rest of us change to fit their culture. Useful, but wrong.[/QUOTE]

learning spanish is a tremendous leg up in the business world. many kids in asia and europe are required to learn english. it's certainly useful, but is it wrong?

ragnarok14 · 10-06-2006, 06:00 AM

By learning spanish, your lessining the barrier faced by people from spanish speaking countries to intergrating into the wider american community. So aside from it giving your kids a handy skill for life it also helps the community work better together.

New York Mick · 10-06-2006, 06:10 AM

[QUOTE=ragnarok14]By learning spanish, your lessining the barrier faced by people from spanish speaking countries to intergrating into the wider american community. So aside from it giving your kids a handy skill for life it also helps the community work better together.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't it help to if they were required to learn American English before they could get jobs or Green Cards. It would be nice if I could work some where in S. Florida and not need a translator.

ragnarok14 · 10-06-2006, 07:06 AM

[QUOTE=New York Mick]Wouldn't it help to if they were required to learn American English before they could get jobs or Green Cards. It would be nice if I could work some where in S. Florida and not need a translator.[/QUOTE]

Yeah there is that too, we here in australia are just about to put a 'must know basic english' clause in our requirements on become residents. But I really dont see the harm in kids learning basic spanish, aside from mandarin its probably the most useful of the non english languages.

Klecko73isGod · 10-06-2006, 07:52 AM

[QUOTE=New York Mick]Wouldn't it help to if they were required to learn American English before they could get jobs or Green Cards. It would be nice if I could work some where in S. Florida and not need a translator.[/QUOTE]There are studies that show that learning a foreign language at an early age can actually help children learn English better.

Also, there are two things to consider. Whether you like it or not, the U.S. already has the second largest spanish speaking population of any country in the world, Mexico is number 1. Also, seeing as how the latino population is the largest growing segment of the population and some predictions have latinos being in the majority of this country within the next 50 years, kids are just gonna have to learn to speak spanish to survive.

BrooklynBound · 10-06-2006, 08:28 AM

[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod]There are studies that show that learning a foreign language at an early age can actually help children learn English better.

Also, there are two things to consider. Whether you like it or not, the U.S. already has the second largest spanish speaking population of any country in the world, Mexico is number 1. Also, seeing as how the latino population is the largest growing segment of the population and some predictions have latinos being in the majority of this country within the next 50 years, kids are just gonna have to learn to speak spanish to survive.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Whether it's right or wrong - it is. It's reality. The world is always changing and we have to adjust to it.

CTM · 10-06-2006, 09:15 AM

[QUOTE=pauliec]it's not necessarily a bad thing, kids all over the world (especially europe) are pretty proficient with English as a second language. I think a second language should be mandtory, but you should have a choice of what to take.[/QUOTE]
True, but English is a very important language to learn for later in life from a business standpoint, what value does Spanish have?

CTM · 10-06-2006, 09:17 AM

[QUOTE=BrooklynBound]hmm, what would it be replacing? i'd rather them take spanish than gym[/QUOTE]
I'd rather music, gym or an ELECTED language before a requirement in Spanish...

CTM · 10-06-2006, 09:19 AM

[QUOTE=BrooklynBound]learning spanish is a tremendous leg up in the business world. many kids in asia and europe are required to learn english. it's certainly useful, but is it wrong?[/QUOTE]
The size of the Spanish speaking market is no where near as large as the English speaking market. I understand it's growing in this country, but if giving kids a leg up in busines is the goal of the program, why not force them to learn Chinese or Japanese?

CTM · 10-06-2006, 09:24 AM

[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod]There are studies that show that learning a foreign language at an early age can actually help children learn English better.
[/quote]
There's also studies about how much regular music classes help developemnt, or how far behind we are in math and sciences

[quote]
Also, there are two things to consider. Whether you like it or not, the U.S. already has the second largest spanish speaking population of any country in the world, Mexico is number 1. Also, seeing as how the latino population is the largest growing segment of the population and some predictions have latinos being in the majority of this country within the next 50 years, kids are just gonna have to learn to speak spanish to survive.[/QUOTE]
Not if our government would kick the illegals out and make them apply for visa and cards in english as well as pass a citzenship test in English.

In a society that has become too accomadating, we are now allowing another culture to swallow our own...

Lawyers, Guns and Money · 10-06-2006, 09:28 AM

[QUOTE=CanadaSteve]YEah right....and let private corporations come in with big money and teach the kids value....like how to work for big corporations.

No thanks..[/QUOTE]

"Evil" Corporations!!! Seriously, i know the govt will never get out of the education business....but it has been a complete failure at it. I would love to see unlimited tax credits in education. And unless you are in the teachers union and worrying about losing jobs for your constituents, I can not see any good reason not to do it.

First, I would liken it to what happened to the postal service once competition form Fed ex, UPS etc were able to ship Parcels..... what happened???? The post office became a lot more efficient!! It still needs a ways to go. The quality of education at every school would increase, or it wouldn't be competitive and cease to exist

Second, it would align parents interest with their kids......parents are more likely to care about their child's education if they are actually paying for it!! Most parents wouldn't tolerate cutting class, slacking off etc if its coming out of their wallets

Third, if parents/students don't like the curriculum, it is easy to switch schools to one you approve. If you want to send your child to a math intensive school, it should be possible etc... BS like what Baltimore is trying to do wouldn't be forced down everyone's fault

Even poor students would benefit!! Class sizes would be smaller in "poor" communities, hence would improve learning conditions

The only losers I see are people in the teachers union

Milton Friedman (and i think Sowell might have too) has written a lot about this topic is is far more eloquent than I. Ill see if I can find some of his text on it.

Lawyers, Guns and Money · 10-06-2006, 09:31 AM

[QUOTE=Lawyers, Guns and Money]
Third, if parents/students don't like the curriculum, it is easy to switch schools to one you approve. If you want to send your child to a math intensive school, it should be possible etc... BS like what Baltimore is trying to do wouldn't be forced down everyone's fault

.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, NJ....I think Ive watched to many episodes of The Wire and have Baltimore on the mind

10-05-2006, 08:53 PM	#1
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	Spanish a requirement in NJ schools? Not sure if this has been discussed here yet, or if it even warrants a discussion, but what are the thoughts on this? My stepdaughter started 3rd grade this year and has a required course in Spanish. Not optional, required, just like Math, Science and English. I'm pretty perturbed by this, not that I have anything against learning another language, but why a requirement? Especially considering how far american kids are behind in the universal languages of science, math, music and arts...

10-05-2006, 09:56 PM	#2
Lawyers, Guns and Money Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenwich Village, NY Posts: 2,229	[QUOTE=ChanTheMaster]Not sure if this has been discussed here yet, or if it even warrants a discussion, but what are the thoughts on this? My stepdaughter started 3rd grade this year and has a required course in Spanish. Not optional, required, just like Math, Science and English. I'm pretty perturbed by this, not that I have anything against learning another language, but why a requirement? Especially considering how far american kids are behind in the universal languages of science, math, music and arts...[/QUOTE] Just more ammo as to why the Govt should get out of the education business......but I know I know, they know whats best for me!!

10-05-2006, 11:24 PM	#3
JetsFan2012 Waterboy Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 0	it's not necessarily a bad thing, kids all over the world (especially europe) are pretty proficient with English as a second language. I think a second language should be mandtory, but you should have a choice of what to take.

10-05-2006, 11:31 PM	#4
BrooklynBound Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,550	hmm, what would it be replacing? i'd rather them take spanish than gym

10-05-2006, 11:34 PM	#5
CanadaSteve Liked the draft picks....meat and potatoes. All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 6,514	[QUOTE=Lawyers, Guns and Money]Just more ammo as to why the Govt should get out of the education business......but I know I know, they know whats best for me!![/QUOTE] YEah right....and let private corporations come in with big money and teach the kids value....like how to work for big corporations. No thanks..

10-05-2006, 11:35 PM	#6
CanadaSteve Liked the draft picks....meat and potatoes. All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 6,514	[QUOTE=BrooklynBound]hmm, what would it be replacing? i'd rather them take spanish than gym[/QUOTE] Hence why there is an obescity problem in our children--NO EXERCISE

10-05-2006, 11:37 PM	#7
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	Two thoughts come immediately to mind: --Useful --Wrong It's a useful skill, but it's sad we've come to a point where Spanish is all but required in America now, where one grouo refuses to join us all in the melting pot, and instead demands the rest of us change to fit their culture. Useful, but wrong.

10-05-2006, 11:38 PM	#8
BrooklynBound Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,550	[QUOTE=CanadaSteve]Hence why there is an obescity problem in our children--NO EXERCISE[/QUOTE] kids are fat because they go home, eat junk and sit in front of the tv/PC all night... not because they spend 45 mins in the outfield of a wiffleball game. i agree kids need to exercise, but i think the school day should be spend on their minds. they get out at 3:30-4, plenty of time for sports/exercise after. i'm not really looking to get rid of gym, persay, but i think learning a second language is much more valuable

10-05-2006, 11:40 PM	#9
BrooklynBound Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,550	[QUOTE=Warfish]Two thoughts come immediately to mind: --Useful --Wrong It's a useful skill, but it's sad we've come to a point where Spanish is all but required in America now, where one grouo refuses to join us all in the melting pot, and instead demands the rest of us change to fit their culture. Useful, but wrong.[/QUOTE] learning spanish is a tremendous leg up in the business world. many kids in asia and europe are required to learn english. it's certainly useful, but is it wrong?

10-06-2006, 06:00 AM	#10
ragnarok14 All League Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 631	By learning spanish, your lessining the barrier faced by people from spanish speaking countries to intergrating into the wider american community. So aside from it giving your kids a handy skill for life it also helps the community work better together.

10-06-2006, 06:10 AM	#11
New York Mick Hall Of Fame Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft Lauderdale by way of New York Posts: 13,208	[QUOTE=ragnarok14]By learning spanish, your lessining the barrier faced by people from spanish speaking countries to intergrating into the wider american community. So aside from it giving your kids a handy skill for life it also helps the community work better together.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't it help to if they were required to learn American English before they could get jobs or Green Cards. It would be nice if I could work some where in S. Florida and not need a translator.

10-06-2006, 07:06 AM	#12
ragnarok14 All League Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 631	[QUOTE=New York Mick]Wouldn't it help to if they were required to learn American English before they could get jobs or Green Cards. It would be nice if I could work some where in S. Florida and not need a translator.[/QUOTE] Yeah there is that too, we here in australia are just about to put a 'must know basic english' clause in our requirements on become residents. But I really dont see the harm in kids learning basic spanish, aside from mandarin its probably the most useful of the non english languages.

10-06-2006, 07:52 AM	#13
Klecko73isGod Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,750	[QUOTE=New York Mick]Wouldn't it help to if they were required to learn American English before they could get jobs or Green Cards. It would be nice if I could work some where in S. Florida and not need a translator.[/QUOTE]There are studies that show that learning a foreign language at an early age can actually help children learn English better. Also, there are two things to consider. Whether you like it or not, the U.S. already has the second largest spanish speaking population of any country in the world, Mexico is number 1. Also, seeing as how the latino population is the largest growing segment of the population and some predictions have latinos being in the majority of this country within the next 50 years, kids are just gonna have to learn to speak spanish to survive.

10-06-2006, 08:28 AM	#14
BrooklynBound Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,550	[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod]There are studies that show that learning a foreign language at an early age can actually help children learn English better. Also, there are two things to consider. Whether you like it or not, the U.S. already has the second largest spanish speaking population of any country in the world, Mexico is number 1. Also, seeing as how the latino population is the largest growing segment of the population and some predictions have latinos being in the majority of this country within the next 50 years, kids are just gonna have to learn to speak spanish to survive.[/QUOTE] I agree. Whether it's right or wrong - it is. It's reality. The world is always changing and we have to adjust to it.

10-06-2006, 09:15 AM	#15
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=pauliec]it's not necessarily a bad thing, kids all over the world (especially europe) are pretty proficient with English as a second language. I think a second language should be mandtory, but you should have a choice of what to take.[/QUOTE] True, but English is a very important language to learn for later in life from a business standpoint, what value does Spanish have?

10-06-2006, 09:17 AM	#16
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=BrooklynBound]hmm, what would it be replacing? i'd rather them take spanish than gym[/QUOTE] I'd rather music, gym or an ELECTED language before a requirement in Spanish...

10-06-2006, 09:19 AM	#17
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=BrooklynBound]learning spanish is a tremendous leg up in the business world. many kids in asia and europe are required to learn english. it's certainly useful, but is it wrong?[/QUOTE] The size of the Spanish speaking market is no where near as large as the English speaking market. I understand it's growing in this country, but if giving kids a leg up in busines is the goal of the program, why not force them to learn Chinese or Japanese?

10-06-2006, 09:24 AM	#18
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod]There are studies that show that learning a foreign language at an early age can actually help children learn English better. [/quote] There's also studies about how much regular music classes help developemnt, or how far behind we are in math and sciences [quote] Also, there are two things to consider. Whether you like it or not, the U.S. already has the second largest spanish speaking population of any country in the world, Mexico is number 1. Also, seeing as how the latino population is the largest growing segment of the population and some predictions have latinos being in the majority of this country within the next 50 years, kids are just gonna have to learn to speak spanish to survive.[/QUOTE] Not if our government would kick the illegals out and make them apply for visa and cards in english as well as pass a citzenship test in English. In a society that has become too accomadating, we are now allowing another culture to swallow our own...

10-06-2006, 09:28 AM	#19
Lawyers, Guns and Money Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenwich Village, NY Posts: 2,229	[QUOTE=CanadaSteve]YEah right....and let private corporations come in with big money and teach the kids value....like how to work for big corporations. No thanks..[/QUOTE] "Evil" Corporations!!! Seriously, i know the govt will never get out of the education business....but it has been a complete failure at it. I would love to see unlimited tax credits in education. And unless you are in the teachers union and worrying about losing jobs for your constituents, I can not see any good reason not to do it. First, I would liken it to what happened to the postal service once competition form Fed ex, UPS etc were able to ship Parcels..... what happened???? The post office became a lot more efficient!! It still needs a ways to go. The quality of education at every school would increase, or it wouldn't be competitive and cease to exist Second, it would align parents interest with their kids......parents are more likely to care about their child's education if they are actually paying for it!! Most parents wouldn't tolerate cutting class, slacking off etc if its coming out of their wallets Third, if parents/students don't like the curriculum, it is easy to switch schools to one you approve. If you want to send your child to a math intensive school, it should be possible etc... BS like what Baltimore is trying to do wouldn't be forced down everyone's fault Even poor students would benefit!! Class sizes would be smaller in "poor" communities, hence would improve learning conditions The only losers I see are people in the teachers union Milton Friedman (and i think Sowell might have too) has written a lot about this topic is is far more eloquent than I. Ill see if I can find some of his text on it.

10-06-2006, 09:31 AM	#20
Lawyers, Guns and Money Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenwich Village, NY Posts: 2,229	[QUOTE=Lawyers, Guns and Money] Third, if parents/students don't like the curriculum, it is easy to switch schools to one you approve. If you want to send your child to a math intensive school, it should be possible etc... BS like what Baltimore is trying to do wouldn't be forced down everyone's fault .[/QUOTE] Sorry, NJ....I think Ive watched to many episodes of The Wire and have Baltimore on the mind