Final case on A-Rod

BrooklynBound · 10-08-2006, 10:23 PM

As a Mets fan, I obviously hear the media killing A-Rod for disappearing in big spots. However, I have friends that tell me it's overblown because he had a great 2004 LDS vs. Minnesota and led the Yanks to the playoffs in 2005. Two poor division series and people are all over him.

Is that fair? I'm not making a stance one way or the other. I'm just looking for some knowledgeable Yankee fans to make the case that he's pulling his weight for the Yanks.

JeffWeaverFan · 10-08-2006, 10:58 PM

IMO, the media attention he gets is unfair. Sheff has been just as bad as he has in the postseason, but nobody seems to care about that.

Saying that, I needed more from A-Rod in this series. I think Torre did a lousy job by batting him 6th and 8th (what was he trying to do there? Get in A-Rod's head? That's the last thing he should be doing), but A-Rod needed to do more. If we can get a good young pitcher and a good young hitter and a prospect, I'd make hte deal.

Jermaine · 10-09-2006, 02:04 AM

yeah he's definitely the whipping boy for the Yankees team... Honestly i know he's getting a ton of money and has "25 million reasons" to be happy as T.O.'s publicist would put it but it must be hard to be SO HATED day in day out.

Oh well though Yankee fans got their new toy and they broke it wah wah they'll get another one soon enough.

SMC · 10-09-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynBound

As a Mets fan, I obviously hear the media killing A-Rod for disappearing in big spots. However, I have friends that tell me it's overblown because he had a great 2004 LDS vs. Minnesota and led the Yanks to the playoffs in 2005. Two poor division series and people are all over him.

Is that fair? I'm not making a stance one way or the other. I'm just looking for some knowledgeable Yankee fans to make the case that he's pulling his weight for the Yanks.

Actually, your friend is not correct. He was 9 for 18 (.421) with 3 RBI and 1 HR. Yes, those numbers look good, but everyone hit in that series. ARod had as many RBI as Williams and Sierra, but less than Jeter in that series. Plus, 5 other Yankees had as many homers in that series. He also did not hit with men in scoring position. That was the same bugaboo that has haunted him his whole career.

It's not two division servies only. It's also a poor ALCS. In his last 11 post season games he is batting 5/46 (.108) with no homers or RBI. The Yanks are 3-8 in that span. You explain to me how he should not be criticized?

JeffWeaverFan · 10-09-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC

Actually, your friend is not correct. He was 9 for 18 (.421) with 3 RBI and 1 HR. Yes, those numbers look good, but everyone hit in that series. ARod had as many RBI as Williams and Sierra, but less than Jeter in that series. Plus, 5 other Yankees had as many homers in that series. He also did not hit with men in scoring position. That was the same bugaboo that has haunted him his whole career.

It's not two division servies only. It's also a poor ALCS. In his last 11 post season games he is batting 5/46 (.108) with no homers or RBI. The Yanks are 3-8 in that span. You explain to me how he should not be criticized?

In the series he had the huge hit that won us game 3. Supposedly, that's what Yankee fans want from him (not the numbers, the big hit). You can't argue he sucks because he doesn't get the big hit on one hand, and then say he sucks because he didn't have as many RBI's or HR's as other guys in a series. Has to be one or the other.

He should be criticized for that. But, IMO, so should a lot of other Yankees. This shouldn't be just about A-Rod. Gary Sheffield has been terrible in the postseason in that span of time too, where is the criticism for his horrible postseason play? Matsui was HORRIBLE in the ALDS last year, especially in that game 5 - and he also did nothing in the last 4 games of the postseason. Now, saying that, I blame A-Rod for not playing better. But I also blame Sheff just as much. Sheff - don't let the door hit you on the way out. A-Rod? If we can get some good young (cheap) players for him, including a good pitcher, I'd ship him out too.

24 · 10-09-2006, 07:59 PM

He can play 2nd base for the mets anyday.. Or hell put him at short, reyes can play 2nd, he can take short after Arods days are behind him, Reyes will still be young by then.

Jermaine · 10-09-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeller83

He can play 2nd base for the mets anyday.. Or hell put him at short, reyes can play 2nd, he can take short after Arods days are behind him, Reyes will still be young by then.

Wow burn in hell man, I dont want A-Rod NEAR the Mets, you truly are just a Yankees-type rooting for the mets arent you...

And i just realized you would want to move Reyes to second even??? ****ing idiot...

Bill Parcells · 10-09-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermaine

Wow burn in hell man, I dont want A-Rod NEAR the Mets, you truly are just a Yankees-type rooting for the mets arent you...

And i just realized you would want to move Reyes to second even??? ****ing idiot...

tsk tsk!!!!

that looks like a personal attack on a Met fan!!!!!!!!!!

Jermaine · 10-09-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill parcells

tsk tsk!!!!

that looks like a personal attack on a Met fan!!!!!!!!!!

here's a quarter...

24 · 10-09-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermaine

Wow burn in hell man, I dont want A-Rod NEAR the Mets, you truly are just a Yankees-type rooting for the mets arent you...

And i just realized you would want to move Reyes to second even??? ****ing idiot...

1st i was joking. But if they did, I dont think it would be crazy. Reyes is unselfish. And Arod, was a superb fielder until the yanks foolishly moved him to 3rd. Arod was a much better SS then Jeter. Hands down.

Im a diehard fan, since I was 3 years old, back in 86, going to shea, yelling "DAAAAAAAAAAREelll!" i HATE THE yANKS WITH A PASSION. Just saying I wouldnt being against bringing in the greatest player of our time.

Jermaine · 10-09-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeller83

1st i was joking. But if they did, I dont think it would be crazy. Reyes is unselfish. And Arod, was a superb fielder until the yanks foolishly moved him to 3rd. Arod was a much better SS then Jeter. Hands down.

Im a diehard fan, since I was 3 years old, back in 86, going to shea, yelling "DAAAAAAAAAAREelll!" i HATE THE yANKS WITH A PASSION. Just saying I wouldnt being against bringing in the greatest player of our time.

He's not the greatest player of our time, he was the player with the greatest potential, but not right now. He may not be finished but he's not #1 on my list for sure.

ambxc22 · 10-09-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermaine

He's not the greatest player of our time, he was the player with the greatest potential, but not right now. He may not be finished but he's not #1 on my list for sure.

then who is?

24 · 10-09-2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambxc22

then who is?

Probably Carlos Beltran!

sackdance · 10-09-2006, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeller83

1st i was joking. But if they did, I dont think it would be crazy. Reyes is unselfish. And Arod, was a superb fielder until the yanks foolishly moved him to 3rd. Arod was a much better SS then Jeter. Hands down.

Im a diehard fan, since I was 3 years old, back in 86, going to shea, yelling "DAAAAAAAAAAREelll!" i HATE THE yANKS WITH A PASSION. Just saying I wouldnt being against bringing in the greatest player of our time.

So...you weren't joking. However, you were dreaming. Not going to happen, kid.

Jason423 · 10-09-2006, 11:52 PM

One other question about A-Rod and this was a discussion I had with my friend the other day. Could the Yankee fan have ever accepted A-Rod? Whenever he did anything good it almost seemed as if it was never good enough, despite winning an MVP award two years ago, and when he did something bad it was always overblown.

I just kind of assumed that Yankee fans were predisposed to hating A-Rod(or as some of my Yankee friends calls him A-Hole and that was when the trade went down) because everyone is so sensitive to any criticism that comes Derek Jeters way. Its like for years you have to defend your star player as the best against A-Rod and Nomar and you really grow to hate those guys and then next thing you know he is on the team playing third base. I would think its very hard to just accept the guy with open arms after that. Plus he was willing to take a pay cut to go to Boston. I know as a Met fan I would have a hard time accepting A-rod because of how his free agency went down. Was that the same situation over in the Bronx?

As an outside observer I felt alot of what he got was unfair. He tried to play a new position and fit in with a team that for some reason never seemed to accept him as a member. Some of that Im sure was his fault, but he was still a dominant player in 2005 and a very good one in 2006. This is more of an organizational failure than that of a player. He was a poor fit for this team. But did he perform any worse in the playoffs than Jeter, Sheffield, Giambi, etc....these last three seasons. These guys havent won since the scrappy Yankee teams of the late 90s through 2001. A-Rod didnt win either. I just dont see why you treat him any differntly than the other ones on this team.

SMC · 10-10-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan

In the series he had the huge hit that won us game 3. Supposedly, that's what Yankee fans want from him (not the numbers, the big hit). You can't argue he sucks because he doesn't get the big hit on one hand, and then say he sucks because he didn't have as many RBI's or HR's as other guys in a series. Has to be one or the other.

He should be criticized for that. But, IMO, so should a lot of other Yankees. This shouldn't be just about A-Rod. Gary Sheffield has been terrible in the postseason in that span of time too, where is the criticism for his horrible postseason play? Matsui was HORRIBLE in the ALDS last year, especially in that game 5 - and he also did nothing in the last 4 games of the postseason. Now, saying that, I blame A-Rod for not playing better. But I also blame Sheff just as much. Sheff - don't let the door hit you on the way out. A-Rod? If we can get some good young (cheap) players for him, including a good pitcher, I'd ship him out too.

Jeff, I like how you changed your avatar from ARod. We've been arguing this issue for a couple of years now. I think you're the biggest ARod apologist out there, but you deny that. So be it.

I agree with you on Sheffield and he will be gone. Matsui was bad in the ALDS last year but was good before that and decent in this past series.

ARod has been dreadful since Pedro Martinez hit him in the Red Sox series and scared him away from the plate. Plus, you cannot deny the fact that he is 4/26 with men in scoring position in the postseason for his career. That predates the Yankees and also includes the "glorious" Minnesota series you persist to hang your hat on.

You keep on harping on his one good playoff series TWO YEARS AGO. And please, STOP making stuff up about ARod when it comes to that series.

The Yanks won game three 8-4 (after leading it 8-1 until the bottom of the 9th). ARod, by the way had no hits in that game. If you're talking about game 2, ARod had a double in the 12th inning which tied the game after Cairo and Jeter walked. But that didn't score the winning run. Matsui's sacrifice fly did.

So, again, please stop making stuff up about ARod and the Minnesota series because he simply did not have a single hit in that series which won them the game.

If you want to refresh your memory on the Minnesota series so you won't misrepresent it again, here's the link:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/po...04_ALDS2.shtml

24 · 10-10-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sackdance

So...you weren't joking. However, you were dreaming. Not going to happen, kid.

Im not. I could care less. I know it aint happening. I just said I wouldnt be against it.

JetsFanInDenver · 10-10-2006, 05:19 PM

Just got an email from a friend.

Cashman says ARod is not available for a trade. He will be with the team in '07.

That sucks. So we have the same manager & the same choker for next season.

Elon · 10-10-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetsFanInDenver

Just got an email from a friend.

Cashman says ARod is not available for a trade. He will be with the team in '07.

That sucks. So we have the same manager & the same choker for next season.

That's just GM talk.

If he gets a deal that can upgrade the team and he can convince ARod to waive the no-trade clause, he'll make the deal.

JetsFanatic · 10-10-2006, 09:01 PM

The Mets make it the NLCS, and their fans start a thread on Arod.

Kind of tells you something.

10-08-2006, 10:23 PM	#1
BrooklynBound Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,550	Final case on A-Rod As a Mets fan, I obviously hear the media killing A-Rod for disappearing in big spots. However, I have friends that tell me it's overblown because he had a great 2004 LDS vs. Minnesota and led the Yanks to the playoffs in 2005. Two poor division series and people are all over him. Is that fair? I'm not making a stance one way or the other. I'm just looking for some knowledgeable Yankee fans to make the case that he's pulling his weight for the Yanks.

10-08-2006, 10:58 PM	#2
JeffWeaverFan All Pro Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 8,484	IMO, the media attention he gets is unfair. Sheff has been just as bad as he has in the postseason, but nobody seems to care about that. Saying that, I needed more from A-Rod in this series. I think Torre did a lousy job by batting him 6th and 8th (what was he trying to do there? Get in A-Rod's head? That's the last thing he should be doing), but A-Rod needed to do more. If we can get a good young pitcher and a good young hitter and a prospect, I'd make hte deal.

10-09-2006, 02:04 AM	#3
Jermaine Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 773	yeah he's definitely the whipping boy for the Yankees team... Honestly i know he's getting a ton of money and has "25 million reasons" to be happy as T.O.'s publicist would put it but it must be hard to be SO HATED day in day out. Oh well though Yankee fans got their new toy and they broke it wah wah they'll get another one soon enough.

10-09-2006, 07:59 PM	#6
24 All Pro Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,884	He can play 2nd base for the mets anyday.. Or hell put him at short, reyes can play 2nd, he can take short after Arods days are behind him, Reyes will still be young by then.

10-09-2006, 11:52 PM	#15
Jason423 All Pro Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 9,671	One other question about A-Rod and this was a discussion I had with my friend the other day. Could the Yankee fan have ever accepted A-Rod? Whenever he did anything good it almost seemed as if it was never good enough, despite winning an MVP award two years ago, and when he did something bad it was always overblown. I just kind of assumed that Yankee fans were predisposed to hating A-Rod(or as some of my Yankee friends calls him A-Hole and that was when the trade went down) because everyone is so sensitive to any criticism that comes Derek Jeters way. Its like for years you have to defend your star player as the best against A-Rod and Nomar and you really grow to hate those guys and then next thing you know he is on the team playing third base. I would think its very hard to just accept the guy with open arms after that. Plus he was willing to take a pay cut to go to Boston. I know as a Met fan I would have a hard time accepting A-rod because of how his free agency went down. Was that the same situation over in the Bronx? As an outside observer I felt alot of what he got was unfair. He tried to play a new position and fit in with a team that for some reason never seemed to accept him as a member. Some of that Im sure was his fault, but he was still a dominant player in 2005 and a very good one in 2006. This is more of an organizational failure than that of a player. He was a poor fit for this team. But did he perform any worse in the playoffs than Jeter, Sheffield, Giambi, etc....these last three seasons. These guys havent won since the scrappy Yankee teams of the late 90s through 2001. A-Rod didnt win either. I just dont see why you treat him any differntly than the other ones on this team.

10-10-2006, 05:19 PM	#18
JetsFanInDenver Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 0	Just got an email from a friend. Cashman says ARod is not available for a trade. He will be with the team in '07. That sucks. So we have the same manager & the same choker for next season.

10-10-2006, 09:01 PM	#20
JetsFanatic When you listen to the fans, you sit with the fans! Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,931	The Mets make it the NLCS, and their fans start a thread on Arod. Kind of tells you something.