ISO:Jetdawgg

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=sackdance]No. You're missing the point. What about Indians? What about indentured servitude? What about someone's great-great grandfather who was promised compensation from the government, say $150 for a team of horses, but got stiffed? What about immigrant rights from 100 years ago? What about wrongful death suits from building the railroads? Slavery was cruel and sad, but reparations is horse****. Perhaps the reparations movement would be better served by finding out more about the continuity of slavery practice in NE Africa [I]today[/I]. Arabs raiding sub-Saharan African villages for slaves, I believe this is still accepted there.[/QUOTE]

Point- Reparations for African Americans due to the practice of slavery in the USA.

How am I missing that?

[sackdance]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]Point- Reparations for African Americans due to the practice of slavery in the USA.

How am I missing that?[/QUOTE]
On legal grounds? Slavery was protected by the constitution before being abolished.

Reparations is a dumb topic.

[doggin94it]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]You are missing the point. The American gov't sponsored the slavery. The American businessmen got something for nothing for at least 225 years.

The African nations are not a part of this argument. This is an American issue.
At least this part of it any way.

The author is also conveniently unaware of the Willie Lynch effects of the US' brand of slavery which is really what we African Americans need healing from[/QUOTE]

And that is the basis for affirmative action - which, I believe, has outlived its usefulness.

You, Jetdawgg, are suffering NO effects of slavery. So why should YOU be compensated for it? (Not that you'll answer the question)

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=sackdance]On legal grounds? Slavery was protected by the constitution before being abolished.

Reparations is a dumb topic.[/QUOTE]

That is the point altogher. The US gov't sponsored slavery allowing the US business to prosper exponentially off the backs of African Americans.

We are due something (I am not sure if it will be tax breaks, tax credits, monies...) for 225 years of a gov't sponsored handout program for businesses

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=doggin94it]And that is the basis for affirmative action - which, I believe, has outlived its usefulness.

You, Jetdawgg, are suffering NO effects of slavery. So why should YOU be compensated for it? (Not that you'll answer the question)[/QUOTE]

I can't say that I am not suffering any effects from slavery, however I am better equipped to handle and manage the racial problems that I face.

The compensation part is not a personal thing. I may not be here when compensation is delivered. I don't think that I would be compensated if I were to get a favorable ruling today.

I have learned how to benefit from the system at hand. I hope that this anwsers your question.

[Bill Parcells]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]I can't say that I am not suffering any effects from slavery, however I am better equipped to handle and manage the racial problems that I face.

The compensation part is not a personal thing. I may not be here when compensation is delivered. I don't think that I would be compensated if I were to get a favorable ruling today.

I have learned how to benefit from the system at hand. I hope that this anwsers your question.[/QUOTE]
OK Jetdawgg. Let me see if I've finally figured out your point. The essence of your argument is that black people in 21st Century America are not responsible or accountable for their (dysfunctional) behavior. Dead white guys, who owned slaves, or enforced segregation DECADES ago, are. Ergo, the current citizenry of the USA is obligated to compensate you.

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=bill parcells]OK Jetdawgg. Let me see if I've finally figured out your point. The essence of your argument is that black people in 21st Century America are not responsible or accountable for their (dysfunctional) behavior. Dead white guys, who owned slaves, or enforced segregation DECADES ago, are. Ergo, the current citizenry of the USA is obligated to compensate you.[/QUOTE]

For the 99999th time, let's not personalize the issue. It is not about ME!!!!!

The argument is not about African Americans in the 21st century. It is about the US gov't for 225 years or so forcing Africans to work for free.

[Come Back to NY]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]For the 99999th time, let's not personalize the issue. It is not about ME!!!!!

The argument is not about African Americans in the 21st century. It is about the US gov't for 225 years or so forcing Africans to work for free.[/QUOTE]

no it's not about YOU...but even though no member of your family were slaves YOU have declared several times in this post that YOU are entitled to reparations....more leftist hypocrisy....

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY]no it's not about YOU...but even though no member of your family were slaves YOU have declared several times in this post that YOU are entitled to reparations....more leftist hypocrisy....[/QUOTE]

The primary reason is being missed by some of you here. Did the US gov't not enslave African peoples for 225 years?

Did the African people ever get paid for that labor?

Did the USA and US business/corporations benefit from this handout?

That is where a major part of the argument is and it is not being addressed here by some of the posters.

I am a decendant of those Africans that were forced to work in the manical gov't hand out program to businesses/corporations. Those Africans are no longer here today.

As ancestors of those enslaved people, we are still seeking justice and will obtain it. This is something that the USA should have done decades ago. It is not my policy to continue to drag this out.

[Come Back to NY]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]The primary reason is being missed by some of you here. Did the US gov't not enslave African peoples for 225 years?

Did the African people ever get paid for that labor?

Did the USA and US business/corporations benefit from this handout?

That is where a major part of the argument is and it is not being addressed here by some of the posters.

I am a decendant of those Africans that were forced to work in the manical gov't hand out program to businesses/corporations. Those Africans are no longer here today.

As ancestors of those enslaved people, we are still seeking justice and will obtain it. This is something that the USA should have done decades ago. It is not my policy to continue to drag this out.[/QUOTE]

no one is missing anything-

YOU claim in this post since YOU are black and blacks were slaves at one point in this nation YOU deserve reparations...yet in your hypocrisy you claim not to be personalizing this....even the simple-minded can see that....

Further- your argument has been addressed- you are just to ignorant to admit it....and I'll say again- from any amount of reparations given any/all free government handouts (welfare/Medicaid/section 8 housing payments/etc) should be subtracted from those receiving them...

If someone want reparations for being forced to work for free (slavery) they should pay back all the free handouts given to them or their descendants...makes sense...

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY]no one is missing anything-

YOU claim in this post since YOU are black and blacks were slaves at one point in this nation YOU deserve reparations...yet in your hypocrisy you claim not to be personalizing this....even the simple-minded can see that....

Further- your argument has been addressed- you are just to ignorant to admit it....and I'll say again- from any amount of reparations given any/all free government handouts (welfare/Medicaid/section 8 housing payments/etc) should be subtracted from those receiving them...

If someone want reparations for being forced to work for free (slavery) they should pay back all the free handouts given to them or their descendants...makes sense...[/QUOTE]

If only things were that simple....

[Come Back to NY]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]If only things were that simple....[/QUOTE]


they are this simple..... why you'll cry like a b!tch about the justification of reparations you won't be man enough to stand up and say what was handed out for free should be given back...

because of this there is no chance in hell one single cent of reparations will ever be handed out- with good reason....

nevermind the fact you keep claiming this topic is not personnalized but made it clear you'll be on line if these handouts were ever approved...

[finlee17]

To be honest, Jetdawgg... I'm a little lost on the argument here.

What I think you are arguing is that when the 13th Amendment was passed abolishing slavery in the United States there should have been some type of reparation given to the newly freed slaves for pivotal role that they had in the agricultural economy of the southern states. Something like $X, Y acres of land, and Z mules to each free slave. Maybe throw in one of those nice southern white girls too... :D

However, they received nothing more than segregation, civil rights abuse and oppression until the 1960s. And considering that blacks have only been enjoying a somewhat equal social status as whites for the past 20 years or so, it's still not enough to overcome the cultural, political, and social disenfranchisement that blacks have been subjected to for the past 300+ yrs.

Up to that point, I'm in agreement (somewhat). However, I'm not clear as to what form reparations should come in. Are you looking for $X per black or just the equal playing field that was denied to blacks for so long?

I'm not looking to pay reparations other than to learn from history and to do everything in my power as a citizen to not let that type of bigotry exist. Am I wrong here?

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY]they are this simple..... why you'll cry like a b!tch about the justification of reparations you won't be man enough to stand up and say what was handed out for free should be given back...

because of this there is no chance in hell one single cent of reparations will ever be handed out- with good reason....

nevermind the fact you keep claiming this topic is not personnalized but made it clear you'll be on line if these handouts were ever approved...[/QUOTE]

Funny, I thought I made it clear that I:
A- probably won't be around and
B- probably won't qualify

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=finlee17]To be honest, Jetdawgg... I'm a little lost on the argument here.

What I think you are arguing is that when the 13th Amendment was passed abolishing slavery in the United States there should have been some type of reparation given to the newly freed slaves for pivotal role that they had in the agricultural economy of the southern states. Something like $X, Y acres of land, and Z mules to each free slave. Maybe throw in one of those nice southern white girls too... :D

However, they received nothing more than segregation, civil rights abuse and oppression until the 1960s. And considering that blacks have only been enjoying a somewhat equal social status as whites for the past 20 years or so, it's still not enough to overcome the cultural, political, and social disenfranchisement that blacks have been subjected to for the past 300+ yrs.

Up to that point, I'm in agreement (somewhat). [B]However, I'm not clear as to what form reparations should come in. Are you looking for $X per black or just the equal playing field that was denied to blacks for so long?[/B]

I'm not looking to pay reparations other than to learn from history and to do everything in my power as a citizen to not let that type of bigotry exist. Am I wrong here?[/QUOTE]

I am not sure how the reparations will look. Tax credits, Health services, educational credits....I don't think it will be X$ per person.

It is a very difficult subject. A lot of dialog has to occur before an understanding is reached that will work for all involved. It would not be beneficial for the reparations to tear down the USA.

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]The primary reason is being missed by some of you here. Did the US gov't not enslave African peoples for 225 years?
[/QUOTE]

Nope, before 1776 the Portuguese, Spanish, and Dutch controlled most of the slave trade to the Americas from 1500 to 1700
and the English were running the place.

Also, before 1800 other people were indentured servants and slaves
as well (Whites, and Indians) (see next)

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg] Did the African people ever get paid for that labor?[/QUOTE]

Prior to 1700, they, like others worked as indentured servants with no
monetary compensation but with their food & housing paid for.
It was a contract under which masters could be sued if they
didnt hold up their end of the deal. At the end, they became
freed men and often given land and other gear. So they werent all
shoved out in the cold with a handshake and fond farewell. It was actually
considered a better deal financially to have contract workers than slaves
until servants started demanding wages, better treatment etc.
Read up on that some time.

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]Did the USA and US business/corporations benefit from this handout??[/QUOTE]

What predecessor corporations of todays Fortune 500 existed at that time that exploited slaves?-very few out of the thousands today. And not in every state, but those that did operated legally.

Examine the claims also-a NY Life Insurance predecessor company writing
policies insuring slaves lives for 2 years, then abolishing the
practice in 1848 benefitted whom exactly, for how much $?
How did that exploit the slave's physical labor?

Whatever your "business" is, and Im not really concerned what,
I am sure you are taking advantage of some essentially Unconstitutional
race-based benefit, backed by the government in some manner,
designed to give minorities restitution.

If not you're not running your business very well!

If African-Americans of today were their own nation, theyd
be the 11th to the 15th wealthiest in the world
(based on 2003 data)

So much for the need for reparations.

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=flushingjet]Nope, before 1776 the Portuguese, Spanish, and Dutch controlled most of the slave trade to the Americas from 1500 to 1700
and the English were running the place.

Also, before 1800 other people were indentured servants and slaves
as well (Whites, and Indians) (see next)



Prior to 1700, they, like others worked as indentured servants with no
monetary compensation but with their food & housing paid for.
It was a contract under which masters could be sued if they
didnt hold up their end of the deal. At the end, they became
freed men and often given land and other gear. So they werent all
shoved out in the cold with a handshake and fond farewell. It was actually
considered a better deal financially to have contract workers than slaves
until servants started demanding wages, better treatment etc.
Read up on that some time.



What predecessor corporations of todays Fortune 500 existed at that time that exploited slaves?-very few out of the thousands today. And not in every state, but those that did operated legally.

Examine the claims also-a NY Life Insurance predecessor company writing
policies insuring slaves lives for 2 years, then abolishing the
practice in 1848 benefitted whom exactly, for how much $?
How did that exploit the slave's physical labor?

Whatever your "business" is, and Im not really concerned what,
I am sure you are taking advantage of some essentially Unconstitutional
race-based benefit, backed by the government in some manner,
designed to give minorities restitution.

If not you're not running your business very well!

If African-Americans of today were their own nation, theyd
be the 11th to the 15th wealthiest in the world
(based on 2003 data)

So much for the need for reparations.[/QUOTE]

Those points are well noted. The point you are missing is that enslaved Africans were stolen from their land and brought here to work for free. Regardless.

I stated before that I don't use the race beneifts to obtain business. They are ususally not funded well and don't have the kind of work I do.

I will research some of the other points over the holidays. I don't have all of the answers and I get a lot of questions from quite a few posters. I am not the expert on this matter at all either.

I have a general understanding of the issue from my readings and life learning experiences.

The food and housing was not always the most desirable even if it was 'free'.
What about the education? What about the medical services? What about the abuse?

I see how slavery affected the USA particularly here in the south. It has a lasting affect on both sides.

[Come Back to NY]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]I am not sure how the reparations will look. Tax credits [/QUOTE] aka welfare...

[QUOTE]Health services[/QUOTE] aka medicaid

[QUOTE]educational credits[/QUOTE] aka free tution or grants based on skin color/ethnicity....

[Come Back to NY]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg]Funny, I thought I made it clear that I:
A- probably won't be around and
B- probably won't qualify[/QUOTE]

regardless of how you frame it you still say since "my people were oppressed" and deserve reparations you also deserve a take in the handout...

the sad thing is attitudes and extremist views such as yours (gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme) cheapens acts of real racism when they occur 'cause people don't want to hear it....just like the boy who cried wolf...

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY]regardless of how you frame it you still say since "my people were oppressed" and deserve reparations you also deserve a take in the handout...

the sad thing is attitudes and extremist views such as yours (gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme) cheapens acts of real racism when they occur 'cause people don't want to hear it....just like the boy who cried wolf...[/QUOTE]

225 years of free labor mandated by the US gov't. What do you think we should get?

The status quo is not acceptable.