sad milestone

YellowSubmarine · 01-02-2007, 03:50 PM

What a sad mile stone, 3.000 lost in that $hithole Iraq, for what ?

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16418524/[/url]

Warfish · 01-02-2007, 04:09 PM

[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine]for what?[/QUOTE]

I don't know.

Why don't YOU tell us what it was for? As you see it, of course.....

Tell us YellowSubmarine.....why did George Bush go to War, and why does he Stay at War despite popular dissapproval of the War Effort?

chicadeel · 01-02-2007, 04:23 PM

3,000 brave American solders whose service to this country should be respected and honored.

Winstonbiggs · 01-02-2007, 04:36 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]I don't know.

Why don't YOU tell us what it was for? As you see it, of course.....

Tell us YellowSubmarine.....why did George Bush go to War, and why does he Stay at War despite popular dissapproval of the War Effort?[/QUOTE]

Even if you believe as I do that his intentions were good, hard to understand why he's staying.

Warfish · 01-02-2007, 04:37 PM

[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]Even if you believe as I do that his intentions were good, hard to understand why he's staying.[/QUOTE]

OK. So why is he staying then Winston?

Winstonbiggs · 01-02-2007, 04:41 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]OK. So why is he staying then Winston?[/QUOTE]

I really don't know War, my gut tells me he doesn't have a way out and will simply dump it in the next administrations lap.

Warfish · 01-02-2007, 04:45 PM

[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]I really don't know War, my gut tells me he doesn't have a way out and will simply dump it in the next administrations lap.[/QUOTE]

So you believe he personally values American lives little enough to stay (and lose more) for no reason other than to try to hoist blame on the next Pres?

Renaissance10 · 01-02-2007, 04:50 PM

I blame the liberal Media,, if the Liberals wouldnt report these kind of things it would be like they never happened,, you dont see Fox News mentioning it or making a big deal out of it

Warfish · 01-02-2007, 04:52 PM

[QUOTE=Renaissance10]I blame the liberal Media,, if the Liberals wouldnt report these kind of things it would be like they never happened,, you dont see Fox News mentioning it or making a big deal out of it[/QUOTE]

Same question goes to you: Why did George Bush go to War, and why does he Stay at War despite popular dissapproval of the War Effort?

Winstonbiggs · 01-02-2007, 04:54 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]So you believe he personally values American lives little enough to stay (and lose more) for no reason other than to try to hoist blame on the next Pres?[/QUOTE]

That's a harsh way to put it. I believe he believes in the mission but has absolutely no idea how to accomplish the mission. The net effect is whether he values the lives or not, I don't see the situation improving under his watch and I don't see him getting out.

Renaissance10 · 01-02-2007, 04:58 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]Same question goes to you: Why did George Bush go to War, and why does he Stay at War despite popular dissapproval of the War Effort?[/QUOTE]

why did Bush go to war? Because he recieved bad advice from the people that pull his strings and on a personal level he wanted to show he is a man to his daddy

Warfish · 01-02-2007, 04:59 PM

[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]That's a harsh way to put it. I believe he believes in the mission but has absolutely no idea how to accomplish the mission. The net effect is whether he values the lives or not, I don't see the situation improving under his watch and I don't see him getting out.[/QUOTE]

Sorry Winston. And yes, your second description is very much different than your first. Instead of being a sociopath uncaring for human life, he is simply a dullard ignoramous, incappable of admitting defeat, incappable off changint tactics on his own, yet also incappable of asking for help to win, and hence uncaringly losing more lives due to his inaction while awaiting the next Pres.

Let me ask you Winston. Before a single bomb fell, or a single boot hit Iraqi dirt......was the Iraq War Effort winable?

Warfish · 01-02-2007, 05:00 PM

[QUOTE=Renaissance10]why did Bush go to war? Because he recieved bad advice from the people that pull his strings and on a personal level he wanted to show he is a man to his daddy[/QUOTE]

Who pulls his strings, specificly?

Are you absolving him of blame for the war because he is a puppet for others?

Renaissance10 · 01-02-2007, 05:06 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]Who pulls his strings, specificly?

Are you absolving him of blame for the war because he is a puppet for others?[/QUOTE]

he is the man that makes the decision, so he should be punished just for being dumb,, but the fact remains he is a puppet and is not a real president,, the people who pulled the strings are the ones who wanted the war for a financial/ personal reason

Warfish · 01-02-2007, 05:10 PM

[QUOTE=Renaissance10]he is the man that makes the decision, so he should be punished just for being dumb,, but the fact remains he is a puppet and is not a real president,, the people who pulled the strings are the ones who wanted the war for a financial/ personal reason[/QUOTE]

Interesting. Who then, are those people? And what is your evidence of this manipulation? Or do you simply "know" it to be true?

Renaissance10 · 01-02-2007, 05:14 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]Interesting. Who then, are those people? And what is your evidence of this manipulation? Or do you simply "know" it to be true?[/QUOTE]

lets look at Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz 2 ringleaders for the Iraq war,, being Pro Isreal one can say they had an agenda

Warfish · 01-02-2007, 05:17 PM

[QUOTE=Renaissance10]lets look at Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz 2 ringleaders for the Iraq war,, being Pro Isreal one can say they had an agenda[/QUOTE]

So what is the agenda then? Defend Israel? What, specificly, are we defednign them from (I believe you are on record saying Iraq had no WMD's at all, and that the inspections were working).

So what was the Perle/Wolfawitz agenda?

Winstonbiggs · 01-02-2007, 05:20 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]Sorry Winston. And yes, your second description is very much different than your first. Instead of being a sociopath uncaring for human life, he is simply a dullard ignoramous, incappable of admitting defeat, incappable off changint tactics on his own, yet also incappable of asking for help to win, and hence uncaringly losing more lives due to his inaction while awaiting the next Pres.

Let me ask you Winston. Before a single bomb fell, or a single boot hit Iraqi dirt......was the Iraq War Effort winable?[/QUOTE]

I didn't say he was a sociopath or an ignoramus. feel free to put words in my mouth. Plenty of smart people get themselves in over their heads it doesn't make them an ignoramus.

I'm not a General but it looked to me like our military did very well. We won every battle and completely destroyed the Iraqi army with very few casualties. It looks like we didn't have a serious reconstruction plan ready to follow up a very quick and thorough military campaign. Whether or not we made a mistake by taking out the Iraq army or not having enough of our own soldiers on the ground to create security or even further maybe we should have put more boots on the ground and a complete bureaucracy in place to run the show until a transition could be made? I really don't know, I didn't plan it or execute it he did.

If you take on something like this your pretty much responsible for it. He did and it looks like the group around him is out and a new group is looking for a decent way out. Smart, good intentioned people get in over their heads and fail all the time.

Warfish · 01-02-2007, 05:27 PM

[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]It looks like we didn't have a serious reconstruction plan ready to follow up a very quick and thorough military campaign. Whether or not we made a mistake by taking out the Iraq army or not having enough of our own soldiers on the ground to create security or even further maybe we should have put more boots on the ground and a complete bureaucracy in place to run the show until a transition could be made? [/QUOTE]

A few questions then: Did GW Bush create the reconstruction plan personally? Or did the Millitary/Govt. Beurocrats in a numbe rof Defense Related Departments come up with the strategy?

As for more Boots, who made that call? Did Generals ask for X number of soldiers, and Bush said no? Who created the plan for security of the occupation? Did Bush do it personally too, or was it again a creation of the Millitary minds in change? Did Bush put all of them in change, or where some, all or noen of them in change when he took office?

Bush gets alot of blame. He's a politician. I want to know who really planned the War, the Occupation and the Security for it. I want to know who gave bad intel, or if you think Bush just lied consciouely (as Renniseance seems to think).

Renaissance10 · 01-02-2007, 05:33 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]So what is the agenda then? Defend Israel? What, specificly, are we defednign them from (I believe you are on record saying Iraq had no WMD's at all, and that the inspections were working).

So what was the Perle/Wolfawitz agenda?[/QUOTE]

Saddam was a threat to Isreal, or so Perle Wolfowitz thought,, plus sources say they had financial reasons behind it

Anyway they and the Neo-cons led us to war,, the fact is they were wrong, they were wrong about the WMDs and this war has been a disaster,, why arent they being held accountable? How about sending a message to the international world(who was against going into Iraq) and putting our guys on trial for war crimes,, because they are American they get a pass? If you are American you are allowed to lead a war effort and hold no accountability?

01-02-2007, 03:50 PM	#1
YellowSubmarine Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 298	sad milestone What a sad mile stone, 3.000 lost in that $hithole Iraq, for what ? [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16418524/[/url]

01-02-2007, 04:09 PM	#2
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine]for what?[/QUOTE] I don't know. Why don't YOU tell us what it was for? As you see it, of course..... Tell us YellowSubmarine.....why did George Bush go to War, and why does he Stay at War despite popular dissapproval of the War Effort?

01-02-2007, 04:23 PM	#3
chicadeel All Pro Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,234	3,000 brave American solders whose service to this country should be respected and honored.

01-02-2007, 04:36 PM	#4
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,909	[QUOTE=Warfish]I don't know. Why don't YOU tell us what it was for? As you see it, of course..... Tell us YellowSubmarine.....why did George Bush go to War, and why does he Stay at War despite popular dissapproval of the War Effort?[/QUOTE] Even if you believe as I do that his intentions were good, hard to understand why he's staying.

01-02-2007, 04:37 PM	#5
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]Even if you believe as I do that his intentions were good, hard to understand why he's staying.[/QUOTE] OK. So why is he staying then Winston?

01-02-2007, 04:41 PM	#6
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,909	[QUOTE=Warfish]OK. So why is he staying then Winston?[/QUOTE] I really don't know War, my gut tells me he doesn't have a way out and will simply dump it in the next administrations lap.

01-02-2007, 04:45 PM	#7
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]I really don't know War, my gut tells me he doesn't have a way out and will simply dump it in the next administrations lap.[/QUOTE] So you believe he personally values American lives little enough to stay (and lose more) for no reason other than to try to hoist blame on the next Pres?

01-02-2007, 04:50 PM	#8
Renaissance10 Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: US Posts: 244	I blame the liberal Media,, if the Liberals wouldnt report these kind of things it would be like they never happened,, you dont see Fox News mentioning it or making a big deal out of it

01-02-2007, 04:52 PM	#9
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Renaissance10]I blame the liberal Media,, if the Liberals wouldnt report these kind of things it would be like they never happened,, you dont see Fox News mentioning it or making a big deal out of it[/QUOTE] Same question goes to you: Why did George Bush go to War, and why does he Stay at War despite popular dissapproval of the War Effort?

01-02-2007, 04:54 PM	#10
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,909	[QUOTE=Warfish]So you believe he personally values American lives little enough to stay (and lose more) for no reason other than to try to hoist blame on the next Pres?[/QUOTE] That's a harsh way to put it. I believe he believes in the mission but has absolutely no idea how to accomplish the mission. The net effect is whether he values the lives or not, I don't see the situation improving under his watch and I don't see him getting out.

01-02-2007, 04:58 PM	#11
Renaissance10 Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: US Posts: 244	[QUOTE=Warfish]Same question goes to you: Why did George Bush go to War, and why does he Stay at War despite popular dissapproval of the War Effort?[/QUOTE] why did Bush go to war? Because he recieved bad advice from the people that pull his strings and on a personal level he wanted to show he is a man to his daddy

01-02-2007, 04:59 PM	#12
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]That's a harsh way to put it. I believe he believes in the mission but has absolutely no idea how to accomplish the mission. The net effect is whether he values the lives or not, I don't see the situation improving under his watch and I don't see him getting out.[/QUOTE] Sorry Winston. And yes, your second description is very much different than your first. Instead of being a sociopath uncaring for human life, he is simply a dullard ignoramous, incappable of admitting defeat, incappable off changint tactics on his own, yet also incappable of asking for help to win, and hence uncaringly losing more lives due to his inaction while awaiting the next Pres. Let me ask you Winston. Before a single bomb fell, or a single boot hit Iraqi dirt......was the Iraq War Effort winable?

01-02-2007, 05:00 PM	#13
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Renaissance10]why did Bush go to war? Because he recieved bad advice from the people that pull his strings and on a personal level he wanted to show he is a man to his daddy[/QUOTE] Who pulls his strings, specificly? Are you absolving him of blame for the war because he is a puppet for others?

01-02-2007, 05:06 PM	#14
Renaissance10 Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: US Posts: 244	[QUOTE=Warfish]Who pulls his strings, specificly? Are you absolving him of blame for the war because he is a puppet for others?[/QUOTE] he is the man that makes the decision, so he should be punished just for being dumb,, but the fact remains he is a puppet and is not a real president,, the people who pulled the strings are the ones who wanted the war for a financial/ personal reason

01-02-2007, 05:10 PM	#15
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Renaissance10]he is the man that makes the decision, so he should be punished just for being dumb,, but the fact remains he is a puppet and is not a real president,, the people who pulled the strings are the ones who wanted the war for a financial/ personal reason[/QUOTE] Interesting. Who then, are those people? And what is your evidence of this manipulation? Or do you simply "know" it to be true?

01-02-2007, 05:14 PM	#16
Renaissance10 Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: US Posts: 244	[QUOTE=Warfish]Interesting. Who then, are those people? And what is your evidence of this manipulation? Or do you simply "know" it to be true?[/QUOTE] lets look at Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz 2 ringleaders for the Iraq war,, being Pro Isreal one can say they had an agenda

01-02-2007, 05:17 PM	#17
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Renaissance10]lets look at Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz 2 ringleaders for the Iraq war,, being Pro Isreal one can say they had an agenda[/QUOTE] So what is the agenda then? Defend Israel? What, specificly, are we defednign them from (I believe you are on record saying Iraq had no WMD's at all, and that the inspections were working). So what was the Perle/Wolfawitz agenda?

01-02-2007, 05:20 PM	#18
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,909	[QUOTE=Warfish]Sorry Winston. And yes, your second description is very much different than your first. Instead of being a sociopath uncaring for human life, he is simply a dullard ignoramous, incappable of admitting defeat, incappable off changint tactics on his own, yet also incappable of asking for help to win, and hence uncaringly losing more lives due to his inaction while awaiting the next Pres. Let me ask you Winston. Before a single bomb fell, or a single boot hit Iraqi dirt......was the Iraq War Effort winable?[/QUOTE] I didn't say he was a sociopath or an ignoramus. feel free to put words in my mouth. Plenty of smart people get themselves in over their heads it doesn't make them an ignoramus. I'm not a General but it looked to me like our military did very well. We won every battle and completely destroyed the Iraqi army with very few casualties. It looks like we didn't have a serious reconstruction plan ready to follow up a very quick and thorough military campaign. Whether or not we made a mistake by taking out the Iraq army or not having enough of our own soldiers on the ground to create security or even further maybe we should have put more boots on the ground and a complete bureaucracy in place to run the show until a transition could be made? I really don't know, I didn't plan it or execute it he did. If you take on something like this your pretty much responsible for it. He did and it looks like the group around him is out and a new group is looking for a decent way out. Smart, good intentioned people get in over their heads and fail all the time.

01-02-2007, 05:27 PM	#19
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs]It looks like we didn't have a serious reconstruction plan ready to follow up a very quick and thorough military campaign. Whether or not we made a mistake by taking out the Iraq army or not having enough of our own soldiers on the ground to create security or even further maybe we should have put more boots on the ground and a complete bureaucracy in place to run the show until a transition could be made? [/QUOTE] A few questions then: Did GW Bush create the reconstruction plan personally? Or did the Millitary/Govt. Beurocrats in a numbe rof Defense Related Departments come up with the strategy? As for more Boots, who made that call? Did Generals ask for X number of soldiers, and Bush said no? Who created the plan for security of the occupation? Did Bush do it personally too, or was it again a creation of the Millitary minds in change? Did Bush put all of them in change, or where some, all or noen of them in change when he took office? Bush gets alot of blame. He's a politician. I want to know who really planned the War, the Occupation and the Security for it. I want to know who gave bad intel, or if you think Bush just lied consciouely (as Renniseance seems to think).

01-02-2007, 05:33 PM	#20
Renaissance10 Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: US Posts: 244	[QUOTE=Warfish]So what is the agenda then? Defend Israel? What, specificly, are we defednign them from (I believe you are on record saying Iraq had no WMD's at all, and that the inspections were working). So what was the Perle/Wolfawitz agenda?[/QUOTE] Saddam was a threat to Isreal, or so Perle Wolfowitz thought,, plus sources say they had financial reasons behind it Anyway they and the Neo-cons led us to war,, the fact is they were wrong, they were wrong about the WMDs and this war has been a disaster,, why arent they being held accountable? How about sending a message to the international world(who was against going into Iraq) and putting our guys on trial for war crimes,, because they are American they get a pass? If you are American you are allowed to lead a war effort and hold no accountability?