Bush Redefines our Goals in Iraq- Aim even Lower

kennyo7 · 05-03-2007, 03:34 PM

So yesterday, for the 3rd or 4th time has redefined the meaning for success in Iraq.

First it was "creating a peaceful western style democracy that will be allied with us in the WOT".........then it was to "create a country that could sustain itself, govern itself and defend itself"........and now its this:

[QUOTE]And the definition of success as I described is [B]sectarian violence down. Success is not, no violence.[/B] There are parts of our own country that have got a certain level of violence to it. But [B]success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives[/B]. And that’s what we’re trying to achieve. [/QUOTE]

WoW!!
Absolutely amazing. Way to set such low standards. Hey if you continue to fail to meet your initial objectives, just keep changing them . Set the standards even lower, eventually you might meet them.

Funny thing is , in the 2004 debate John Kerry said gains can be made against terrorism when “it isn’t threatening people’s lives every day, and fundamentally, it’s something that you continue to fight, but it’s not threatening the fabric of your life. Success against terrorism will occur when terrorist acts are reduced to a nuisance level". He was absolutely ridiculed by Bush, Cheney and the republicans for saying this. Now Bush is using the very same standard to set our goal in Iraq.

AlbanyJet · 05-05-2007, 09:51 AM

[QUOTE=kennyo7]So yesterday, for the 3rd or 4th time has redefined the meaning for success in Iraq.

First it was "creating a peaceful western style democracy that will be allied with us in the WOT".........then it was to "create a country that could sustain itself, govern itself and defend itself"........and now its this:

[quote]And the definition of success as I described is sectarian violence down. Success is not, no violence. There are parts of our own country that have got a certain level of violence to it. But success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives. And that?s what we?re trying to achieve.[/quote]

WoW!!

Absolutely amazing. Way to set such low standards. Hey if you continue to fail to meet your initial objectives, just keep changing them . Set the standards even lower, eventually you might meet them.

Funny thing is , in the 2004 debate John Kerry said gains can be made against terrorism when ?it isn?t threatening people?s lives every day, and fundamentally, it?s something that you continue to fight, but it?s not threatening the fabric of your life. Success against terrorism will occur when terrorist acts are reduced to a nuisance level". He was absolutely ridiculed by Bush, Cheney and the republicans for saying this. Now Bush is using the very same standard to set our goal in Iraq.[/QUOTE]

What does Muslims in Iraq brutally torturing and murdering each other have to do with the global war on terror that Kerry was referring to?

Personally, if President George Bush came out and said something to the effect of "We removed a brutal Iraqi dictator but the people we liberated turned out to be de-human animals who would rather blow each other up in Mosques, schools, and hospitals. Humankind has never known such base people. We are not fighting an army in Iraq. We are not fighting anyone in Iraq. We are caught in the middle of a decades old, hopeless, endless, senseless, Islamic blood bath. Therefore, US military forces begin withdrawl from Iraq immediately." I would have no problem with that.

I hate George Bush but the failure in Iraq is firmly placed firmly on the shoulders of Islam as far as I'm concerned.

Warfish · 05-05-2007, 11:25 AM

I don't see the "Primary Victory Goal" having changed at all. It is still to have a Democratic Iraq, Allied to the USA.

Limiting sectarian violence is a sub-goal that is clearly required to have any chance at reaching the primary goal.

kennyo7 · 05-05-2007, 11:31 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish]I don't see the "Primary Victory Goal" having changed at all. [B]It is still to have a Democratic Iraq, Allied to the USA[/B].

Limiting sectarian violence is a sub-goal that is clearly required to have any chance at reaching the primary goal.[/QUOTE]

But that is not what he said.
He said the goal is to get the violence down to an acceptable level. Nothing about creating a democracy allied with the USA. The presumption is once the violence is down we are out, since for the last 6 years he has offered no political solutions just military ones.

kennyo7 · 05-05-2007, 11:31 AM

[QUOTE=AlbanyJet]What does Muslims in Iraq brutally torturing and murdering each other have to do with the global war on terror that Kerry was referring to?

[B]Personally, if President George Bush came out and said something to the effect of "We removed a brutal Iraqi dictator but the people we liberated turned out to be de-human animals who would rather blow each other up in Mosques, schools, and hospitals. Humankind has never known such base people. We are not fighting an army in Iraq. We are not fighting anyone in Iraq. We are caught in the middle of a decades old, hopeless, endless, senseless, Islamic blood bath. Therefore, US military forces begin withdrawl from Iraq immediately." I would have no problem with that.[/B]

I hate George Bush but the failure in Iraq is firmly placed firmly on the shoulders of Islam as far as I'm concerned.[/QUOTE]

I kind of agree with this.

Warfish · 05-05-2007, 06:21 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7]presumption[/QUOTE]

Yep. So what is your criticism here then? Don't you want us out faster? You seem to be contradicting yourself here, if he has, as you presume/assume, changed the exit qualifier to "lower sectarian violence only", that means we'll be out faster, right? Faster than doing that AND fostering an allied Democracy right?

So why the nasty critical tone in your OP then? I would think you'd be very supporting of lowered expectations/requirements. But I guess any chance to take a shot, eh? Even if you actually agree or support the actual facts (or at least the direction).

PlumberKhan · 05-05-2007, 06:37 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]Democratic Iraq, Allied to the USA...[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/2371/heman6dy.png[/IMG]

[SIZE=6][B]BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL!!![/B][/SIZE]

Leaf or bud, bro?

Come Back to NY · 05-05-2007, 08:02 PM

classic liberal incompetence...

let's compare terrorism to daily violence which takes place in the streets and citys around the globe daily...

classically pathetic and yet expected....

kennyo7 · 05-05-2007, 09:01 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish]Yep. So what is your criticism here then? Don't you want us out faster? You seem to be contradicting yourself here, if he has, as you presume/assume, changed the exit qualifier to "lower sectarian violence only", that means we'll be out faster, right? Faster than doing that AND fostering an allied Democracy right?

So why the nasty critical tone in your OP then? I would think you'd be very supporting of lowered expectations/requirements. But I guess any chance to take a shot, eh? Even if you actually agree or support the actual facts (or at least the direction).[/QUOTE]

My criticism is that he keeps changing his goals. I am also critical because he ridiculed Kerry for saying the very same thing that he is saying now.

Do I believe he can even achieve this lower expectation? No.
We should pull out in the coming months.

kennyo7 · 05-05-2007, 09:04 PM

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY]classic liberal incompetence...

let's compare terrorism to daily violence which takes place in the streets and citys around the globe daily...

classically pathetic and yet expected....[/QUOTE]

Really? , we have daily suicide bombers, mass executions (some of which is conducted by the government and police) killing 20-100 people/day.

Lets see, this happened [U]one[/U] day at VT and Americans were shocked (and rightfully so). But Iraq has 1-2 VTs every day. And to CBNY this is acceptable...now thats what i call pathetic

Come Back to NY · 05-05-2007, 09:23 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7]Really? , we have daily suicide bombers, mass executions (some of which is conducted by the government and police) killing 20-100 people/day.

Lets see, this happened [U]one[/U] day at VT and Americans were shocked (and rightfully so). But Iraq has 1-2 VTs every day. And to CBNY this is acceptable...now thats what i call pathetic[/QUOTE]

again- d!psh!t....read the cherry picked quotes YOU posted...it has nothing to do with what I think is acceptable....

PlumberKhan · 05-05-2007, 09:37 PM

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY]classic liberal incompetence...

let's compare terrorism to daily violence which takes place in the streets and citys around the globe daily...

classically pathetic and yet expected....[/QUOTE]

Classic classicness....

cr726 · 05-06-2007, 12:51 AM

It never gets old.

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY]again- d!psh!t....read the cherry picked quotes YOU posted...it has nothing to do with what I think is acceptable....[/QUOTE]

AlbanyJet · 05-06-2007, 10:22 AM

[QUOTE=kennyo7]We should pull out in the coming months.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree with you. Democrats call it 'withdrawl of US forces' but I call it 'Iraqi Divestiture'.

NOTE: Before we leave, I still want to spike the Iraqi water supply with high-grace acid. Man, I wanna see those terrorists totally stoned - for about three months. :kitty:

PlumberKhan · 05-06-2007, 07:31 PM

[QUOTE=AlbanyJet]NOTE: Before we leave, I still want to spike the Iraqi water supply with high-grace acid. Man, I wanna see those terrorists totally stoned - for about three months. :kitty:[/QUOTE]

Why waste good drugs on a bunch of a-holes like the Iraqi terrorists?

Better yet...let's spike the D.C. water supply with high grade acid. Man, I wanna see THOSE people totally stoned - for about 3 months...maybe longer.

05-03-2007, 03:34 PM	#1
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,404	Bush Redefines our Goals in Iraq- Aim even Lower So yesterday, for the 3rd or 4th time has redefined the meaning for success in Iraq. First it was "creating a peaceful western style democracy that will be allied with us in the WOT".........then it was to "create a country that could sustain itself, govern itself and defend itself"........and now its this: [QUOTE]And the definition of success as I described is [B]sectarian violence down. Success is not, no violence.[/B] There are parts of our own country that have got a certain level of violence to it. But [B]success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives[/B]. And that’s what we’re trying to achieve. [/QUOTE] WoW!! Absolutely amazing. Way to set such low standards. Hey if you continue to fail to meet your initial objectives, just keep changing them . Set the standards even lower, eventually you might meet them. Funny thing is , in the 2004 debate John Kerry said gains can be made against terrorism when “it isn’t threatening people’s lives every day, and fundamentally, it’s something that you continue to fight, but it’s not threatening the fabric of your life. Success against terrorism will occur when terrorist acts are reduced to a nuisance level". He was absolutely ridiculed by Bush, Cheney and the republicans for saying this. Now Bush is using the very same standard to set our goal in Iraq.

05-05-2007, 09:51 AM	#2
AlbanyJet All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,635	[QUOTE=kennyo7]So yesterday, for the 3rd or 4th time has redefined the meaning for success in Iraq. First it was "creating a peaceful western style democracy that will be allied with us in the WOT".........then it was to "create a country that could sustain itself, govern itself and defend itself"........and now its this: [quote]And the definition of success as I described is sectarian violence down. Success is not, no violence. There are parts of our own country that have got a certain level of violence to it. But success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives. And that?s what we?re trying to achieve.[/quote] WoW!! Absolutely amazing. Way to set such low standards. Hey if you continue to fail to meet your initial objectives, just keep changing them . Set the standards even lower, eventually you might meet them. Funny thing is , in the 2004 debate John Kerry said gains can be made against terrorism when ?it isn?t threatening people?s lives every day, and fundamentally, it?s something that you continue to fight, but it?s not threatening the fabric of your life. Success against terrorism will occur when terrorist acts are reduced to a nuisance level". He was absolutely ridiculed by Bush, Cheney and the republicans for saying this. Now Bush is using the very same standard to set our goal in Iraq.[/QUOTE] What does Muslims in Iraq brutally torturing and murdering each other have to do with the global war on terror that Kerry was referring to? Personally, if President George Bush came out and said something to the effect of "We removed a brutal Iraqi dictator but the people we liberated turned out to be de-human animals who would rather blow each other up in Mosques, schools, and hospitals. Humankind has never known such base people. We are not fighting an army in Iraq. We are not fighting anyone in Iraq. We are caught in the middle of a decades old, hopeless, endless, senseless, Islamic blood bath. Therefore, US military forces begin withdrawl from Iraq immediately." I would have no problem with that. I hate George Bush but the failure in Iraq is firmly placed firmly on the shoulders of Islam as far as I'm concerned.

05-05-2007, 11:25 AM	#3
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	I don't see the "Primary Victory Goal" having changed at all. It is still to have a Democratic Iraq, Allied to the USA. Limiting sectarian violence is a sub-goal that is clearly required to have any chance at reaching the primary goal.

05-05-2007, 11:31 AM	#4
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,404	[QUOTE=Warfish]I don't see the "Primary Victory Goal" having changed at all. [B]It is still to have a Democratic Iraq, Allied to the USA[/B]. Limiting sectarian violence is a sub-goal that is clearly required to have any chance at reaching the primary goal.[/QUOTE] But that is not what he said. He said the goal is to get the violence down to an acceptable level. Nothing about creating a democracy allied with the USA. The presumption is once the violence is down we are out, since for the last 6 years he has offered no political solutions just military ones.

05-05-2007, 06:21 PM	#6
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=kennyo7]presumption[/QUOTE] Yep. So what is your criticism here then? Don't you want us out faster? You seem to be contradicting yourself here, if he has, as you presume/assume, changed the exit qualifier to "lower sectarian violence only", that means we'll be out faster, right? Faster than doing that AND fostering an allied Democracy right? So why the nasty critical tone in your OP then? I would think you'd be very supporting of lowered expectations/requirements. But I guess any chance to take a shot, eh? Even if you actually agree or support the actual facts (or at least the direction).

05-05-2007, 06:37 PM	#7
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=Warfish]Democratic Iraq, Allied to the USA...[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/2371/heman6dy.png[/IMG] [SIZE=6][B]BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL!!![/B][/SIZE] Leaf or bud, bro?

05-05-2007, 08:02 PM	#8
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	classic liberal incompetence... let's compare terrorism to daily violence which takes place in the streets and citys around the globe daily... classically pathetic and yet expected....

05-05-2007, 09:01 PM	#9
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,404	[QUOTE=Warfish]Yep. So what is your criticism here then? Don't you want us out faster? You seem to be contradicting yourself here, if he has, as you presume/assume, changed the exit qualifier to "lower sectarian violence only", that means we'll be out faster, right? Faster than doing that AND fostering an allied Democracy right? So why the nasty critical tone in your OP then? I would think you'd be very supporting of lowered expectations/requirements. But I guess any chance to take a shot, eh? Even if you actually agree or support the actual facts (or at least the direction).[/QUOTE] My criticism is that he keeps changing his goals. I am also critical because he ridiculed Kerry for saying the very same thing that he is saying now. Do I believe he can even achieve this lower expectation? No. We should pull out in the coming months.

05-05-2007, 09:04 PM	#10
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,404	[QUOTE=Come Back to NY]classic liberal incompetence... let's compare terrorism to daily violence which takes place in the streets and citys around the globe daily... classically pathetic and yet expected....[/QUOTE] Really? , we have daily suicide bombers, mass executions (some of which is conducted by the government and police) killing 20-100 people/day. Lets see, this happened [U]one[/U] day at VT and Americans were shocked (and rightfully so). But Iraq has 1-2 VTs every day. And to CBNY this is acceptable...now thats what i call pathetic

05-05-2007, 09:23 PM	#11
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=kennyo7]Really? , we have daily suicide bombers, mass executions (some of which is conducted by the government and police) killing 20-100 people/day. Lets see, this happened [U]one[/U] day at VT and Americans were shocked (and rightfully so). But Iraq has 1-2 VTs every day. And to CBNY this is acceptable...now thats what i call pathetic[/QUOTE] again- d!psh!t....read the cherry picked quotes YOU posted...it has nothing to do with what I think is acceptable....

05-05-2007, 09:37 PM	#12
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=Come Back to NY]classic liberal incompetence... let's compare terrorism to daily violence which takes place in the streets and citys around the globe daily... classically pathetic and yet expected....[/QUOTE] Classic classicness....

05-06-2007, 12:51 AM	#13
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,329	It never gets old. [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]again- d!psh!t....read the cherry picked quotes YOU posted...it has nothing to do with what I think is acceptable....[/QUOTE]

05-06-2007, 10:22 AM	#14
AlbanyJet All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,635	[QUOTE=kennyo7]We should pull out in the coming months.[/QUOTE] I completely agree with you. Democrats call it 'withdrawl of US forces' but I call it 'Iraqi Divestiture'. NOTE: Before we leave, I still want to spike the Iraqi water supply with high-grace acid. Man, I wanna see those terrorists totally stoned - for about three months. :kitty:

05-06-2007, 07:31 PM	#15
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=AlbanyJet]NOTE: Before we leave, I still want to spike the Iraqi water supply with high-grace acid. Man, I wanna see those terrorists totally stoned - for about three months. :kitty:[/QUOTE] Why waste good drugs on a bunch of a-holes like the Iraqi terrorists? Better yet...let's spike the D.C. water supply with high grade acid. Man, I wanna see THOSE people totally stoned - for about 3 months...maybe longer.