The presidency of GWB has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy...(vid)

[DeanPatsFan]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2200879]That's your choice[/QUOTE]

That would be any intelligent person's choice....

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2200882]That would be any intelligent person's choice....[/QUOTE]


Too bad you cannot make the claim of having any intelligence or courage

[DeanPatsFan]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2200885]Too bad you cannot make the claim of having any intelligence or courage[/QUOTE]

What can I say. Judging from your posts, it's clear your intellect knows no bounds......

[kennyo7]

[QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2200859]You're like a broken record kenny. I KNEW that would be the response I'd get from you.

George Tenent was head of the CIA and I'm sure he sat in on a waterboarding session or two of KSM.

How about you?[/QUOTE]


John McCain was a tortured POW and said it is not effective.

Col. Stuart Herrington, a military intelligence specialist who conducted interrogations in Vietnam, Panama and Iraq during Desert Storm, and who was sent by the Pentagon in 2003 -- long before Abu Ghraib -- to assess interrogations in Iraq said "torture is simply not a good way to get information".
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html[/url]

Brigadier General David Irvine who taught prisoner interrogation and military law for 18 years with the Sixth Army Intelligence School also says that torture does not work.

Former CIA officers also say it does not work.
[url]http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=1322866[/url]



This has been studied extensively throughout history. Examination of court records for 625 cases of torture interrogation in France, from the 1500s through the mid-1700s, showed approximate rates of error—that is, no confession on the rack, under repeated drowning, crushing of joints, and the like—in 67% to 95% of cases, depending on the province. Dr. Ruchama Marton has studied the Mosaads use of force in interrogation and found that even the most aggressive interrogation methods never provided acurate details of a single case in which torture was used.The Gestapo's use of torture against the French resistance in the 1940s and the French use of torture against the Algerian resistance in the 1950s both proved largely ineffective.

Recent confessions under torture from khalid sheikh muhammed also yielded an incredibly large amount of false info with the intent of distracting intelligence officers.[url]http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2368990.ece[/url]

[cr726]

Everyone feel safer now?

[QUOTE]Al Qaeda is in the United States, former CIA Director George Tenet says, and he’s surprised there have not been more attacks on American soil.

“I do know one thing in my gut,” Tenet writes in his upcoming book. “Al Qaeda is here and waiting.”[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2200859]You're like a broken record kenny. I KNEW that would be the response I'd get from you.

George Tenent was head of the CIA and I'm sure he sat in on a waterboarding session or two of KSM.

How about you?[/QUOTE]

[DeanPatsFan]

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2200908]John McCain was a tortured POW and said it is not effective.

Col. Stuart Herrington, a military intelligence specialist who conducted interrogations in Vietnam, Panama and Iraq during Desert Storm, and who was sent by the Pentagon in 2003 -- long before Abu Ghraib -- to assess interrogations in Iraq said "torture is simply not a good way to get information".
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html[/url]

Brigadier General David Irvine who taught prisoner interrogation and military law for 18 years with the Sixth Army Intelligence School also says that torture does not work.

Former CIA officers also say it does not work.
[url]http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=1322866[/url]



This has been studied extensively throughout history. Examination of court records for 625 cases of torture interrogation in France, from the 1500s through the mid-1700s, showed approximate rates of error—that is, no confession on the rack, under repeated drowning, crushing of joints, and the like—in 67% to 95% of cases, depending on the province. Dr. Ruchama Marton has studied the Mosaads use of force in interrogation and found that even the most aggressive interrogation methods never provided acurate details of a single case in which torture was used.The Gestapo's use of torture against the French resistance in the 1940s and the French use of torture against the Algerian resistance in the 1950s both proved largely ineffective.

Recent confessions under torture from khalid sheikh muhammed also yielded an incredibly large amount of false info with the intent of distracting intelligence officers.[url]http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2368990.ece[/url][/QUOTE]

Bottom line is.... Depending on the method, it works on some people and doesn't work on others.

It worked on KSM.

[PlumberKhan]

[QUOTE=Warfish;2200319]And what do we do, when the very freedoms we cherish, the rights earned by two centuries of blood, are the very tools used against us? [/QUOTE]

The same thing we do when our freedoms granted to us by the 2nd amendment are used against law-abiding citizens!

OUTLAW GUNS!!!


Oh...


We didn't do that?



OK......TORTURE CRIMINALS!!

Yeah!


Question 1: Who kills more Americans every year?

A.) Terrorists

B.) Other Americans

C.) Smurfs

[Queens Jet Fan]

[QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2200739]George Tenent said the waterboarding of KSM gained information that saved hundreds, if not thousands of lives.

Hell kenny, one of them could have been yours....[/QUOTE]

Please cite us a link to back up this quote. I don't believe he said this at all.

[Queens Jet Fan]

[QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2200859]
George Tenent was head of the CIA and I'm sure he sat in on a waterboarding session or two of KSM.

[/QUOTE]
Well this is just another of your posts that are completely dead wrong. Are you ever right?
[QUOTE]"Have you ever seen any of these interrogations done?" Pelley asks.

"No," Tenet replies. [/QUOTE]

[URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/25/60minutes/main2728375_page3.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/25/60minutes/main2728375_page3.shtml[/URL]

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2200984]Well this is just another of your posts that are completely dead wrong. Are you ever right?


[URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/25/60minutes/main2728375_page3.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/25/60minutes/main2728375_page3.shtml[/URL][/QUOTE]

He's intelligent:yes:

[DeanPatsFan]

[QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2200984]Well this is just another of your posts that are completely dead wrong. Are you ever right?


[URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/25/60minutes/main2728375_page3.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/25/60minutes/main2728375_page3.shtml[/URL][/QUOTE]

Do you think he's going to admit to seeing KSM waterboarded and then have the commie liberal pukes at See-BS News grill him about what he saw?

[DeanPatsFan]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2201007]He's intelligent:yes:[/QUOTE]

And you're not.....

[bigalbarracuda]

[QUOTE=Warfish;2200319]And what do we do, when the very freedoms we cherish, the rights earned by two centuries of blood, are the very tools used against us? When our freedoms give others free movement within our borders? When our welcoming nature gives rise to unfettered invasion of illegals and God knows whomever else? When our desire to be moral leaves tools in the bag of our defense? When our desire to be better earns our people the most diabolical and grotesque deaths imaginable when captured or kidnapped? When our open nature to all faiths allows one faith to espouse hatred for everythign we are, within our own borders?

You call him simplistic, yet you fail (and almost every Left-leaner I know fails) to see how a SMART enemy can use the very basic principles of freedom, the rights we have (and have so foolishly given to everyone, citizen or not, legal or not), the very basic tenants of American freedom, as a dagger, to stab us in the heart from the inside.

No, seemingly the way the Left-leaners see it, there IS no threat at all. Radical Fundementalist Islamofasism, in it's various forms, is but a knat to be ignored. Terrorism, and the threat of Nuclear proliferation, are just "fear tactics", no real danger.

And worst of all, [B]you [/B]far too often AGREE with those who wish to see this country torn down (because we're eveil and mean ya know) and rebuilt into some Social Welfare State, who gives rights and money to any comer in the World, by taxing it's own people at 99%. Equallity, after all, must be enforced by the Govt. without question in [B]YOUR [/B]world.

Nope, no threats at all, only the eveil Conservatives. That is the world [B]you [/B]see.[/QUOTE]

Who sh1t in your cereal this morning dude?

I once made the mistake of generalizing what I felt [B]your [/B]views were... a mistake for which I apologized at least twice for.

I won't humor your baseless attacks with a response concerning what my views actually are until I receive a similar apology. I can say that after reading your posts for a while now and coming to respect your opinion I am both shocked and disappointed to find this coming from you.

[cr726]

Why would he be there?

[QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2201023]Do you think he's going to admit to seeing KSM waterboarded and then have the commie liberal pukes at See-BS News grill him about what he saw?[/QUOTE]

[JetsFanatic]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;2198264]Sir, not in this administration......[/QUOTE]

Waterboard Hillary Clinton, maybe then she'll answer a question.

[Sharrow]

[QUOTE=pauliec;2200369]Olbermann better enjoy the remaining year of the Bush administration. When Hillary becomes President, he'll have nothing to talk about.[/QUOTE]

He'll have a lot to talk about. Whether he does or not is another story.

[Come Back to NY]

[QUOTE=Warfish;2200319]And what do we do, when the very freedoms we cherish, the rights earned by two centuries of blood, are the very tools used against us? When our freedoms give others free movement within our borders? When our welcoming nature gives rise to unfettered invasion of illegals and God knows whomever else? When our desire to be moral leaves tools in the bag of our defense? When our desire to be better earns our people the most diabolical and grotesque deaths imaginable when captured or kidnapped? When our open nature to all faiths allows one faith to espouse hatred for everythign we are, within our own borders?

You call him simplistic, yet you fail (and almost every Left-leaner I know fails) to see how a SMART enemy can use the very basic principles of freedom, the rights we have (and have so foolishly given to everyone, citizen or not, legal or not), the very basic tenants of American freedom, as a dagger, to stab us in the heart from the inside.

No, seemingly the way the Left-leaners see it, there IS no threat at all. Radical Fundementalist Islamofasism, in it's various forms, is but a knat to be ignored. Terrorism, and the threat of Nuclear proliferation, are just "fear tactics", no real danger.

And worst of all, you far too often AGREE with those who wish to see this country torn down (because we're eveil and mean ya know) and rebuilt into some Social Welfare State, who gives rights and money to any comer in the World, by taxing it's own people at 99%. Equallity, after all, must be enforced by the Govt. without question in YOUR world.

Nope, no threats at all, only the eveil Conservatives. That is the world you see.[/QUOTE]


ouch....little al gets b-slapped into submission again....

[cr726]

Guess what War, life isn't fair and doing the best thing is not always the easiest. That is life no?

Why don't we just gather everyone who we think may hurt us and send them away and who cares where because it is all about our safety.

Let's give away freedoms because the small amount of terrorists that exist in the world have you sh#tting in your pants.

That isn't left or right it is reality. You want to live in fear and give away rights because you will feel better is BS.

[QUOTE=Warfish;2200319]And what do we do, when the very freedoms we cherish, the rights earned by two centuries of blood, are the very tools used against us? When our freedoms give others free movement within our borders? When our welcoming nature gives rise to unfettered invasion of illegals and God knows whomever else? When our desire to be moral leaves tools in the bag of our defense? When our desire to be better earns our people the most diabolical and grotesque deaths imaginable when captured or kidnapped? When our open nature to all faiths allows one faith to espouse hatred for everythign we are, within our own borders?

You call him simplistic, yet you fail (and almost every Left-leaner I know fails) to see how a SMART enemy can use the very basic principles of freedom, the rights we have (and have so foolishly given to everyone, citizen or not, legal or not), the very basic tenants of American freedom, as a dagger, to stab us in the heart from the inside.

No, seemingly the way the Left-leaners see it, there IS no threat at all. Radical Fundementalist Islamofasism, in it's various forms, is but a knat to be ignored. Terrorism, and the threat of Nuclear proliferation, are just "fear tactics", no real danger.

And worst of all, you far too often AGREE with those who wish to see this country torn down (because we're eveil and mean ya know) and rebuilt into some Social Welfare State, who gives rights and money to any comer in the World, by taxing it's own people at 99%. Equallity, after all, must be enforced by the Govt. without question in YOUR world.

Nope, no threats at all, only the eveil Conservatives. That is the world you see.[/QUOTE]

[Queens Jet Fan]

[QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2201023]Do you think he's going to admit to seeing KSM waterboarded and then have the commie liberal pukes at See-BS News grill him about what he saw?[/QUOTE]

What a complete bullsh*tter you are! You make outlandish statements. When asked to back it up you can't. When you are shown to be completely wrong you say you are right but they can't admit it because liberals will attack them.

Please tell how you are privileged to such info. Of course you are not. You are just another loudmouth who has no clue what he's talking about and rants and raves how liberals are spoiling this country when the truth is it is people like yourself who betray everything this country stands for.

You're pathetic.

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=JetsFanatic;2201120]Waterboard Hillary Clinton, maybe then she'll answer a question.[/QUOTE]


:yes: