How Will Obama Lead the U.S. To Energy Independence? - Page 2

2foolish197 · 06-17-2008, 08:34 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;2587326][url]http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/[/url]

Plan for a Clean Energy Future
“Well, I don't believe that climate change is just an issue that's convenient to bring up during a campaign. I believe it's one of the greatest moral challenges of our generation. That's why I've fought successfully in the Senate to increase our investment in renewable fuels. That's why I reached across the aisle to come up with a plan to raise our fuel standards… And I didn't just give a speech about it in front of some environmental audience in California. I went to Detroit, I stood in front of a group of automakers, and I told them that when I am president, there will be no more excuses — we will help them retool their factories, but they will have to make cars that use less oil.”

— Barack Obama, Speech in Des Moines, IA, October 14, 2007

At a Glance
Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050
Invest in a Clean Energy Future
Support Next Generation Biofuels
Set America on Path to Oil Independence
Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030
Restore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change[/QUOTE]
ok how is he going to do this?

CTM · 06-17-2008, 08:42 PM

Obama will do little..

As usual, capitilism and the free markets will sort it out

This is why I hope gas stays right where it is..

My prediciton, the nerds in silicon valley are investing heavily in solar. Get a breakthrough that can a) capture the infrared spectrum and b) apply moore's law to solar cells and we'll be golden..

F oil, F ethanol, F everything besides solar, wind and ocean current...

long island leprechaun · 06-17-2008, 09:06 PM

[QUOTE=piney;2588161]sorry, but for the Obama detractors that is just empty rhetoric.....there is no substance to this plan..he is too general and vague...Obama has no plan.....[/QUOTE]

The next complaint will be that his plan is too specific.... :rolleyes:

long island leprechaun · 06-17-2008, 09:06 PM

[QUOTE=2foolish197;2588215]ok how is he going to do this?[/QUOTE]

You skipped a few posts. Go back and check them out.

bitonti · 06-17-2008, 10:25 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2587441]The trouble I have Bit, is that is all VERY general. How will he "reduce Carbon Emissions by 80%" for example? What does "Invest in a Clean Energy Futre" actually mena, specificly? "Set America on A Path to Oil Independence"? Thats what I am asking, WHAT is he planning that will do that, specificly?

Less generalizaed rhetoric, more specificity.

[/QUOTE]

warfish not that you really care but each one of those were links to sections about what he wants to do.

Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050
Invest in a Clean Energy Future
Support Next Generation Biofuels
Set America on Path to Oil Independence
Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030
Restore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change

you guys want to ask how, go and click a link! i gave you the page

piney · 06-17-2008, 10:52 PM

[QUOTE=CTM;2588221]Obama will do little..

As usual, capitilism and the free markets will sort it out

This is why I hope gas stays right where it is..

My prediciton, the nerds in silicon valley are investing heavily in solar. Get a breakthrough that can a) capture the infrared spectrum and b) apply moore's law to solar cells and we'll be golden..

F oil, F ethanol, F everything besides solar, wind and ocean current...[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%...the free market will take care of it faster than anything else...

the fact that car manufacturers are already concentrating on making smaller cars speaks volumes for where the Auto market has been going.....

I tend to think people are genrally made up the same way, and if so, like me, they will seek out alternative ways to get their energy and run their vehicles for just one reason only.....cost.

CTM · 06-17-2008, 10:57 PM

[QUOTE=piney;2588488]I agree 100%...the free market will take care of it faster than anything else...

the fact that car manufacturers are already concentrating on making smaller cars speaks volumes for where the Auto market has been going.....
[B]
I tend to think people are genrally made up the same way, and if so, like me, they will seek out alternative ways to get their energy and run their vehicles for just one reason only.....cost.[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, and the industry to meet that need will grow.

It's kind of silly looking towards the president as the only means to solve this problem when we already have a system in place to do so. Can he help? Sure, but ultimately it needs to be motivated by profit

Almost as silly btw, as DeanPatsFan ..... whose #1 criteria for president is how safe and secure they make him feel with their abilities to protect him..

Winstonbiggs · 06-18-2008, 04:39 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti;2588421]warfish not that you really care but each one of those were links to sections about what he wants to do.

Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050
Invest in a Clean Energy Future
Support Next Generation Biofuels
Set America on Path to Oil Independence
Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030
Restore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change

you guys want to ask how, go and click a link! i gave you the page[/QUOTE]

So tell me why he and the Democrats in Congress are complaining about high oil and food prices when they are supporting ethanol subsidies and banned oil drilling up to two hundred miles off shore and in Alaska?

Contrary to what most people think, high oil and food prices will be the number 1 issue in this campaign and the facts are Obama and the Democrats support both through public policy while blaming the results on the Administration.

If Obama and the Democrats weren't lying, they would own up to the fact that their stradegy for reducing climate change is by making oil and coal, the only currently proven technologies that can run our economy unafordable. It's a reasonable stradegy and it will work but the results will be a substantially poorer society with the middle class being squeezed down in the process for a future that is not yet out there.

It's simply a lie that the Democrats are trying to lower fuel and food prices while outright banning offshore drilling and Artic drilling and subsidizing bio fuels while locking out ethanol from Brazil.

I have no issue with that stance however blaming Bush for high oil prices is simply a lie. We have had tons of threads about how Bush lied to get us into war. Do we really want to elect an administration and Congress who is lying to us about our economic future and won't be straight with us about what this is really about, conservation and climate change at the expense of relatively inexpensive energy and food. That may well be a very good thing? It's worthy of a reasoned debate rather than a lie that may well lead us to an economic dissaster that could destroy our way of life and our basic freedom.

bitonti · 06-18-2008, 09:54 AM

[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2588939]So tell me why he and the Democrats in Congress are complaining about high oil and food prices when they are supporting ethanol subsidies and banned oil drilling up to two hundred miles off shore and in Alaska?

Contrary to what most people think, high oil and food prices will be the number 1 issue in this campaign and the facts are Obama and the Democrats support both through public policy while blaming the results on the Administration.

If Obama and the Democrats weren't lying, they would own up to the fact that their stradegy for reducing climate change is by making oil and coal, the only currently proven technologies that can run our economy unafordable. It's a reasonable stradegy and it will work but the results will be a substantially poorer society with the middle class being squeezed down in the process for a future that is not yet out there.

It's simply a lie that the Democrats are trying to lower fuel and food prices while outright banning offshore drilling and Artic drilling and subsidizing bio fuels while locking out ethanol from Brazil.

I have no issue with that stance however blaming Bush for high oil prices is simply a lie. We have had tons of threads about how Bush lied to get us into war. Do we really want to elect an administration and Congress who is lying to us about our economic future and won't be straight with us about what this is really about, conservation and climate change at the expense of relatively inexpensive energy and food. That may well be a very good thing? It's worthy of a reasoned debate rather than a lie that may well lead us to an economic dissaster that could destroy our way of life and our basic freedom.[/QUOTE]

Obama has said in his recent speeches that USA has only 3% of the world's oil - if that's true (i don't know for sure) then drilling ANWR or off the coast won't make a dent in prices.

Warfish · 06-18-2008, 10:21 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti;2588421]warfish not that you really care but each one of those were links to sections about what he wants to do.

Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050
Invest in a Clean Energy Future
Support Next Generation Biofuels
Set America on Path to Oil Independence
Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030
Restore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change

you guys want to ask how, go and click a link! i gave you the page[/QUOTE]

Yep, someone else posted the extended-detail version.

I think I preferred the generalizations......Obama seems interested in banking our future on technology and improvements that do not yet exist, whilst extolling a variety of long-winded-jargon-laden yet frankly meaningless generalizations (ideals) and demands he has no way of ensuring happen, all whilst doing quite a bit to actively increase the size of Govt., the cost of taxation and to generally lower the quality of living in America in order to please the Eco-crowd and redistribute wealth from those he doesn't like to those he does.

We may indeed be free of foreign oil via this plan, I must admit. But the cost (Massive Govt., massive taxation, less enegery availabillity to the masses, smaller less safe cars, vastly higher energy costs) isn't worth the trade-off IMO.

Too bad he's gonna win.:(

bitonti · 06-18-2008, 11:30 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2589148]
Too bad he's gonna win.:([/QUOTE]

have a little faith Warfish just because the technology doesn't exist now doesn't mean it won't ever exist.

taking this out of politics for a second, looking at the markets, it's highly probable the next "bubble" is an alt energy bubble, like the other bubbles, quality of life for Americans will rise not fall.

06-17-2008, 08:34 PM	#21
2foolish197 i suspect hanky-panky All League Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: astoria Posts: 4,528	[QUOTE=bitonti;2587326][url]http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/[/url] Plan for a Clean Energy Future “Well, I don't believe that climate change is just an issue that's convenient to bring up during a campaign. I believe it's one of the greatest moral challenges of our generation. That's why I've fought successfully in the Senate to increase our investment in renewable fuels. That's why I reached across the aisle to come up with a plan to raise our fuel standards… And I didn't just give a speech about it in front of some environmental audience in California. I went to Detroit, I stood in front of a group of automakers, and I told them that when I am president, there will be no more excuses — we will help them retool their factories, but they will have to make cars that use less oil.” — Barack Obama, Speech in Des Moines, IA, October 14, 2007 At a Glance Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050 Invest in a Clean Energy Future Support Next Generation Biofuels Set America on Path to Oil Independence Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030 Restore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change[/QUOTE] ok how is he going to do this?

06-17-2008, 08:42 PM	#22
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	Obama will do little.. As usual, capitilism and the free markets will sort it out This is why I hope gas stays right where it is.. My prediciton, the nerds in silicon valley are investing heavily in solar. Get a breakthrough that can a) capture the infrared spectrum and b) apply moore's law to solar cells and we'll be golden.. F oil, F ethanol, F everything besides solar, wind and ocean current...

06-17-2008, 09:06 PM	#23
long island leprechaun Don't mess with Angel Eyes. All Pro Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: greenwich village, NYC Posts: 7,235	[QUOTE=piney;2588161]sorry, but for the Obama detractors that is just empty rhetoric.....there is no substance to this plan..he is too general and vague...Obama has no plan.....[/QUOTE] The next complaint will be that his plan is too specific.... :rolleyes:

06-17-2008, 10:25 PM	#25
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=Warfish;2587441]The trouble I have Bit, is that is all VERY general. How will he "reduce Carbon Emissions by 80%" for example? What does "Invest in a Clean Energy Futre" actually mena, specificly? "Set America on A Path to Oil Independence"? Thats what I am asking, WHAT is he planning that will do that, specificly? Less generalizaed rhetoric, more specificity. [/QUOTE] warfish not that you really care but each one of those were links to sections about what he wants to do. Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050 Invest in a Clean Energy Future Support Next Generation Biofuels Set America on Path to Oil Independence Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030 Restore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change you guys want to ask how, go and click a link! i gave you the page

06-17-2008, 10:52 PM	#26
piney hip deep in dirty diapers All League Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,618	[QUOTE=CTM;2588221]Obama will do little.. As usual, capitilism and the free markets will sort it out This is why I hope gas stays right where it is.. My prediciton, the nerds in silicon valley are investing heavily in solar. Get a breakthrough that can a) capture the infrared spectrum and b) apply moore's law to solar cells and we'll be golden.. F oil, F ethanol, F everything besides solar, wind and ocean current...[/QUOTE] I agree 100%...the free market will take care of it faster than anything else... the fact that car manufacturers are already concentrating on making smaller cars speaks volumes for where the Auto market has been going..... I tend to think people are genrally made up the same way, and if so, like me, they will seek out alternative ways to get their energy and run their vehicles for just one reason only.....cost.

06-17-2008, 10:57 PM	#27
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=piney;2588488]I agree 100%...the free market will take care of it faster than anything else... the fact that car manufacturers are already concentrating on making smaller cars speaks volumes for where the Auto market has been going..... [B] I tend to think people are genrally made up the same way, and if so, like me, they will seek out alternative ways to get their energy and run their vehicles for just one reason only.....cost.[/B][/QUOTE] Yes, and the industry to meet that need will grow. It's kind of silly looking towards the president as the only means to solve this problem when we already have a system in place to do so. Can he help? Sure, but ultimately it needs to be motivated by profit Almost as silly btw, as DeanPatsFan ..... whose #1 criteria for president is how safe and secure they make him feel with their abilities to protect him..

06-18-2008, 04:39 AM	#28
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,930	[QUOTE=bitonti;2588421]warfish not that you really care but each one of those were links to sections about what he wants to do. Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050 Invest in a Clean Energy Future Support Next Generation Biofuels Set America on Path to Oil Independence Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030 Restore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change you guys want to ask how, go and click a link! i gave you the page[/QUOTE] So tell me why he and the Democrats in Congress are complaining about high oil and food prices when they are supporting ethanol subsidies and banned oil drilling up to two hundred miles off shore and in Alaska? Contrary to what most people think, high oil and food prices will be the number 1 issue in this campaign and the facts are Obama and the Democrats support both through public policy while blaming the results on the Administration. If Obama and the Democrats weren't lying, they would own up to the fact that their stradegy for reducing climate change is by making oil and coal, the only currently proven technologies that can run our economy unafordable. It's a reasonable stradegy and it will work but the results will be a substantially poorer society with the middle class being squeezed down in the process for a future that is not yet out there. It's simply a lie that the Democrats are trying to lower fuel and food prices while outright banning offshore drilling and Artic drilling and subsidizing bio fuels while locking out ethanol from Brazil. I have no issue with that stance however blaming Bush for high oil prices is simply a lie. We have had tons of threads about how Bush lied to get us into war. Do we really want to elect an administration and Congress who is lying to us about our economic future and won't be straight with us about what this is really about, conservation and climate change at the expense of relatively inexpensive energy and food. That may well be a very good thing? It's worthy of a reasoned debate rather than a lie that may well lead us to an economic dissaster that could destroy our way of life and our basic freedom.

06-18-2008, 09:54 AM	#29
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2588939]So tell me why he and the Democrats in Congress are complaining about high oil and food prices when they are supporting ethanol subsidies and banned oil drilling up to two hundred miles off shore and in Alaska? Contrary to what most people think, high oil and food prices will be the number 1 issue in this campaign and the facts are Obama and the Democrats support both through public policy while blaming the results on the Administration. If Obama and the Democrats weren't lying, they would own up to the fact that their stradegy for reducing climate change is by making oil and coal, the only currently proven technologies that can run our economy unafordable. It's a reasonable stradegy and it will work but the results will be a substantially poorer society with the middle class being squeezed down in the process for a future that is not yet out there. It's simply a lie that the Democrats are trying to lower fuel and food prices while outright banning offshore drilling and Artic drilling and subsidizing bio fuels while locking out ethanol from Brazil. I have no issue with that stance however blaming Bush for high oil prices is simply a lie. We have had tons of threads about how Bush lied to get us into war. Do we really want to elect an administration and Congress who is lying to us about our economic future and won't be straight with us about what this is really about, conservation and climate change at the expense of relatively inexpensive energy and food. That may well be a very good thing? It's worthy of a reasoned debate rather than a lie that may well lead us to an economic dissaster that could destroy our way of life and our basic freedom.[/QUOTE] Obama has said in his recent speeches that USA has only 3% of the world's oil - if that's true (i don't know for sure) then drilling ANWR or off the coast won't make a dent in prices.

06-18-2008, 10:21 AM	#30
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=bitonti;2588421]warfish not that you really care but each one of those were links to sections about what he wants to do. Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050 Invest in a Clean Energy Future Support Next Generation Biofuels Set America on Path to Oil Independence Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030 Restore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change you guys want to ask how, go and click a link! i gave you the page[/QUOTE] Yep, someone else posted the extended-detail version. I think I preferred the generalizations......Obama seems interested in banking our future on technology and improvements that do not yet exist, whilst extolling a variety of long-winded-jargon-laden yet frankly meaningless generalizations (ideals) and demands he has no way of ensuring happen, all whilst doing quite a bit to actively increase the size of Govt., the cost of taxation and to generally lower the quality of living in America in order to please the Eco-crowd and redistribute wealth from those he doesn't like to those he does. We may indeed be free of foreign oil via this plan, I must admit. But the cost (Massive Govt., massive taxation, less enegery availabillity to the masses, smaller less safe cars, vastly higher energy costs) isn't worth the trade-off IMO. Too bad he's gonna win.:(

06-18-2008, 11:30 AM	#31
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=Warfish;2589148] Too bad he's gonna win.:([/QUOTE] have a little faith Warfish just because the technology doesn't exist now doesn't mean it won't ever exist. taking this out of politics for a second, looking at the markets, it's highly probable the next "bubble" is an alt energy bubble, like the other bubbles, quality of life for Americans will rise not fall.