France more anti-Muslim than us?

brady's a catcher · 07-11-2008, 11:22 AM

I'm extremely interested to hear people's views on the case detailed below, particularly in terms of whether we should take similar actions here.

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25637418/[/url]

PARIS - France has denied citizenship to a veiled Moroccan woman on the grounds that her "radical" practice of Islam is incompatible with basic French values such as equality of the sexes.

The case will reignite debate about how to reconcile freedom of religion, which is guaranteed by the French constitution, and other fundamental rights, which many in France feel are being challenged by the way of life of some Muslims.

Le Monde newspaper said it was the first time a Muslim applicant had been rejected for reasons to do with personal religious practice.

"She has adopted a radical practice of her religion, incompatible with essential values of the French community, particularly the principle of equality of the sexes," said a ruling by the Council of State handed down last month and sent to Reuters on Friday to confirm a report in Le Monde.

The Council of State is a judicial body which has final say on disputes between individuals and the public administration.

She speaks good French
Married to a French national, the woman arrived in France in 2000, speaks good French and has three children born in France.

She wears a black burqa that covers all her body except her eyes, which are visible through a narrow slit, and lives in "total submission" to her husband and male relatives, according to reports by social services. Le Monde said the woman is 32.

The woman's application for French nationality was rejected in 2005 on grounds of "insufficient assimilation". She appealed to the Council of State, which last month approved the rejection.

In the past, nationality was denied to Muslims who were known to have links with extremist circles or who had publicly advocated radicalism, which is not the case here.

The ruling comes weeks after a heated debate over whether traditional Muslim views were creeping into French law, prompted by a court annulment of the marriage of two Muslims because the husband said the wife was not a virgin as she had claimed to be.

Click for related content
Special Report: Migration to Europe

Going to an extreme?
In the case of the Moroccan woman, Le Monde suggested the Council of State had gone to the opposite extreme by rejecting the woman's beliefs and way of life rather than accommodating them.

"Is a burqa incompatible with French nationality?" the newspaper asked.

The legal expert who provided a formal report on the case to the Council of State wrote that the woman's interviews with social services revealed that "she lives almost as a recluse, isolated from French society," Le Monde reported.

"She has no idea about the secular state or the right to vote. She lives in total submission to her male relatives. She seems to find this normal and the idea of challenging it has never crossed her mind," Emmanuelle Prada-Bordenave wrote.

SanAntonio_JetFan · 07-11-2008, 11:47 AM

It's ironic that this page has banner ads for an Arab/Muslim dating website.

EDIT> Well, at least it did before I posted this.

OrangeJet · 07-11-2008, 12:52 PM

[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2623373]It's ironic that this page has banner ads for an Arab/Muslim dating website.

EDIT> Well, at least it did before I posted this.[/QUOTE]

The ads are based on the content of the thread.

Mean Bro Green · 07-11-2008, 12:58 PM

that's a disgusting story and should never happen here

brady's a catcher · 07-11-2008, 01:29 PM

[QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2623475]that's a disgusting story and should never happen here[/QUOTE]

On moral or legal grounds? Guessing moral since you used the word "disgusting".

bitonti · 07-11-2008, 02:27 PM

of course France is more anti-Muslim than Us, we are about to elect a Muslim president, right guys? ;)

Mean Bro Green · 07-11-2008, 04:21 PM

[QUOTE=brady's a catcher;2623506]On moral or legal grounds? Guessing moral since you used the word "disgusting".[/QUOTE]

both, discrimination due to her dress and how she relates to her husband is of no consequence to the gov't. Tell me she has a criminal history or shady ties to any rogue group and I'll say fine but no member of any ethnic or religious group should be discriminated against regardless of what invisible friends they may have...........;)

brady's a catcher · 07-11-2008, 04:23 PM

[QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2623906]both, discrimination due to her dress and how she relates to her husband is of no consequence to the gov't. Tell me she has a criminal history or shady ties to any rogue group and I'll say fine but no member of any ethnic or religious group should be discriminated against regardless of what invisible friends they may have...........;)[/QUOTE]

Agreed

07-11-2008, 11:22 AM	#1
brady's a catcher R.I.P Goofy Maloof All Pro Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 6,696	France more anti-Muslim than us? I'm extremely interested to hear people's views on the case detailed below, particularly in terms of whether we should take similar actions here. [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25637418/[/url] PARIS - France has denied citizenship to a veiled Moroccan woman on the grounds that her "radical" practice of Islam is incompatible with basic French values such as equality of the sexes. The case will reignite debate about how to reconcile freedom of religion, which is guaranteed by the French constitution, and other fundamental rights, which many in France feel are being challenged by the way of life of some Muslims. Le Monde newspaper said it was the first time a Muslim applicant had been rejected for reasons to do with personal religious practice. "She has adopted a radical practice of her religion, incompatible with essential values of the French community, particularly the principle of equality of the sexes," said a ruling by the Council of State handed down last month and sent to Reuters on Friday to confirm a report in Le Monde. The Council of State is a judicial body which has final say on disputes between individuals and the public administration. She speaks good French Married to a French national, the woman arrived in France in 2000, speaks good French and has three children born in France. She wears a black burqa that covers all her body except her eyes, which are visible through a narrow slit, and lives in "total submission" to her husband and male relatives, according to reports by social services. Le Monde said the woman is 32. The woman's application for French nationality was rejected in 2005 on grounds of "insufficient assimilation". She appealed to the Council of State, which last month approved the rejection. In the past, nationality was denied to Muslims who were known to have links with extremist circles or who had publicly advocated radicalism, which is not the case here. The ruling comes weeks after a heated debate over whether traditional Muslim views were creeping into French law, prompted by a court annulment of the marriage of two Muslims because the husband said the wife was not a virgin as she had claimed to be. Click for related content Special Report: Migration to Europe Going to an extreme? In the case of the Moroccan woman, Le Monde suggested the Council of State had gone to the opposite extreme by rejecting the woman's beliefs and way of life rather than accommodating them. "Is a burqa incompatible with French nationality?" the newspaper asked. The legal expert who provided a formal report on the case to the Council of State wrote that the woman's interviews with social services revealed that "she lives almost as a recluse, isolated from French society," Le Monde reported. "She has no idea about the secular state or the right to vote. She lives in total submission to her male relatives. She seems to find this normal and the idea of challenging it has never crossed her mind," Emmanuelle Prada-Bordenave wrote.

07-11-2008, 11:47 AM	#2
SanAntonio_JetFan Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,481	It's ironic that this page has banner ads for an Arab/Muslim dating website. EDIT> Well, at least it did before I posted this.

07-11-2008, 12:52 PM	#3
OrangeJet All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,946	[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2623373]It's ironic that this page has banner ads for an Arab/Muslim dating website. EDIT> Well, at least it did before I posted this.[/QUOTE] The ads are based on the content of the thread.

07-11-2008, 12:58 PM	#4
Mean Bro Green gettin it Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 18,660	that's a disgusting story and should never happen here

07-11-2008, 01:29 PM	#5
brady's a catcher R.I.P Goofy Maloof All Pro Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 6,696	[QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2623475]that's a disgusting story and should never happen here[/QUOTE] On moral or legal grounds? Guessing moral since you used the word "disgusting".

07-11-2008, 02:27 PM	#6
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	of course France is more anti-Muslim than Us, we are about to elect a Muslim president, right guys? ;)

07-11-2008, 04:21 PM	#7
Mean Bro Green gettin it Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 18,660	[QUOTE=brady's a catcher;2623506]On moral or legal grounds? Guessing moral since you used the word "disgusting".[/QUOTE] both, discrimination due to her dress and how she relates to her husband is of no consequence to the gov't. Tell me she has a criminal history or shady ties to any rogue group and I'll say fine but no member of any ethnic or religious group should be discriminated against regardless of what invisible friends they may have...........;)

07-11-2008, 04:23 PM	#8
brady's a catcher R.I.P Goofy Maloof All Pro Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 6,696	[QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2623906]both, discrimination due to her dress and how she relates to her husband is of no consequence to the gov't. Tell me she has a criminal history or shady ties to any rogue group and I'll say fine but no member of any ethnic or religious group should be discriminated against regardless of what invisible friends they may have...........;)[/QUOTE] Agreed