Obama: Ethnic cleansing reduced violence

SanAntonio_JetFan · 07-22-2008, 11:45 AM

Terry Moran asked ”if the country had pursued your policy of withdrawing in the face of this horrific violence, what do you think Iraq would look like now?”

Obama said it would be hard to speculate. “The Sunnis might have made the same decisions at that time. The Shii’as might have made some similar decisions based on political calculation. [B]There was ethnic cleansing in Baghdad that actually took the violence level down[/B],” he said.

:eek:

cr726 · 07-22-2008, 11:48 AM

That is because Pakistan is on the Iraqi border.

[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639293]Terry Moran asked ”if the country had pursued your policy of withdrawing in the face of this horrific violence, what do you think Iraq would look like now?”

Obama said it would be hard to speculate. “The Sunnis might have made the same decisions at that time. The Shii’as might have made some similar decisions based on political calculation. [B]There was ethnic cleansing in Baghdad that actually took the violence level down[/B],” he said.

:eek:[/QUOTE]

SanAntonio_JetFan · 07-22-2008, 11:54 AM

[QUOTE=cr726;2639298]That is because Pakistan is on the Iraqi border.[/QUOTE]

:confused:

cr726 · 07-22-2008, 11:54 AM

I guess you only pay attention when Obama mis-speaks?

[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639312]:confused:[/QUOTE]

SanAntonio_JetFan · 07-22-2008, 11:57 AM

[QUOTE=cr726;2639313]I guess you only pay attention when Obama mis-speaks?[/QUOTE]

Your response was nonsensical.

cr726 · 07-22-2008, 11:59 AM

You start thread after thread about BS Obama quotes, that's it.

[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639317]Your response was nonsensical.[/QUOTE]

SanAntonio_JetFan · 07-22-2008, 12:03 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;2639319]You start thread after thread about BS Obama quotes, that's it.[/QUOTE]

Well, the guy has the largest brigade of TV news anchors ever assembled on his non-campaign event and he HAS TO BE EXPEXTING this question. Without a script or teleprompter, he just says some ridiculous crap.

cr726 · 07-22-2008, 12:05 PM

Good job. McCain is and has been doing the same thing.

[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639325]Well, the guy has the largest brigade of TV news anchors ever assembled on his non-campaign event and he HAS TO BE EXPEXTING this question. Without a script or teleprompter, he just says some ridiculous crap.[/QUOTE]

SanAntonio_JetFan · 07-22-2008, 12:10 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;2639328]Good job. McCain is and has been doing the same thing.[/QUOTE]

I know you are, but what am I.

kennyo7 · 07-22-2008, 12:12 PM

[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639293]Terry Moran asked ”if the country had pursued your policy of withdrawing in the face of this horrific violence, what do you think Iraq would look like now?”

Obama said it would be hard to speculate. “The Sunnis might have made the same decisions at that time. The Shii’as might have made some similar decisions based on political calculation. [B]There was ethnic cleansing in Baghdad that actually took the violence level down[/B],” he said.

:eek:[/QUOTE]

Uhhh, do you doubt that the successful ethnic cleansing campaigns at the hands of Shia Death Squads has lead to a decrease in the level of violence we see today??? Most of the fighting was between Iraqi Sunni and Shia groups vying for power (contrary to the popular belief that it was AQ behind most of the violence). The Shia Death Squads were very successful in shifting the ethnic demographics of Baghdad and many other Iraqis cities that were previously mixed. As the cities became mostly Shia the violence has dropped. The Shia Death Squads succeeded. This has truly lead to the drop in violence along with other factors. Obama was right.

chicadeel · 07-22-2008, 12:19 PM

[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639325][B]Well, the guy has the largest brigade of TV news anchors ever assembled on his non-campaign event[/B] and he HAS TO BE EXPEXTING this question. Without a script or teleprompter, he just says some ridiculous crap.[/QUOTE]

.......And then we learn that..........

[U]Andrea Mitchell on Hardball[/U]

Andrea: Let me say something about his message management. He didn’t have reporters with him. He didn’t have a press pool. He didn’t do a press conference while he was on the ground either on Afghanistan or Iraq. What you’re seeing is not reporters brought in, you’re seeing selected pictures taken by the military, questioned by the military and what some would call fake interviews because they’re not interviews with a journalist so there’s a real press issue here. Politically it’s smart as can be, but we’ve not seen a Presidential candidate do this in my recollection ever before.

I don’t think journalism is the prime thing that we recruit them and pay them for.

Warfish · 07-22-2008, 12:27 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2639335]Uhhh, do you doubt that the successful ethnic cleansing campaigns at the hands of Shia Death Squads has lead to a decrease in the level of violence we see today??? Most of the fighting was between Iraqi Sunni and Shia groups vying for power (contrary to the popular belief that it was AQ behind most of the violence). The Shia Death Squads were very successful in shifting the ethnic demographics of Baghdad and many other Iraqis cities that were previously mixed. As the cities became mostly Shia the violence has dropped. The Shia Death Squads succeeded. This has truly lead to the drop in violence along with other factors. Obama was right.[/QUOTE]

Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change.

Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change.

It must really wax your carrot that the Surge (i.e. Reinforcement of U.S. Troops to a More Appropriate Level) actually worked, and we have come so much closer to winning in Iraq, and leaving with Iraq stable. Your frustration and anger is so obvious, and it makes me laugh every time I read it. You were sooooo desperate for Bush Co. to lose, it kills you that we've all but won you so-called "unwinnable" war. And we did it losing less troops in all these years than died (in some cases) in hours in other Wars.

But hey Ken, don't fret. :)

Obama has pledged to keep American Troops in Iraq, albeit in a reduced role, and plans on opening up our efforts in Afganistan and Pakistan ten-fold of what they are today, up to and including American action in Pakistan without Pakistani approval. We'll see how he handled being Commander-in-Chief soon enough. You'll get your Universal healthcare, your higher taxation, your amnesty for illegals, your alt-fuel funding and oil-descrimination and more! So smile, it's all good for you these days.

cr726 · 07-22-2008, 12:28 PM

Lame?

[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639333]I know you are, but what am I.[/QUOTE]

SanAntonio_JetFan · 07-22-2008, 12:35 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;2639362]Lame?[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

kennyo7 · 07-22-2008, 12:43 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2639356]Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change.

Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change.

It must really wax your carrot that the Surge (i.e. Reinforcement of U.S. Troops to a More Appropriate Level) actually worked, and [B]we have come so much closer to winning in Iraq, and leaving with Iraq stable[/B]. Your frustration and anger is so obvious, and it makes me laugh every time I read it. You were sooooo desperate for Bush Co. to lose, it kills you that we've all but won you so-called "unwinnable" war. And we did it losing less troops in all these years than died (in some cases) in hours in other Wars.

But hey Ken, don't fret. :)

Obama has pledged to keep American Troops in Iraq, albeit in a reduced role, and plans on opening up our efforts in Afganistan and Pakistan ten-fold of what they are today, up to and including American action in Pakistan without Pakistani approval. We'll see how he handled being Commander-in-Chief soon enough. You'll get your Universal healthcare, your higher taxation, your amnesty for illegals, your alt-fuel funding and oil-descrimination and more! So smile, it's all good for you these days.[/QUOTE]

Please define "winning". Our goal was to create a model western style democracy allied with the USA in the WOT. Iraq is clearly (only a blind person wont admit to it) a friend/allie of Iran (a nation we consider an enemy and a member of the axis of evil). How can you be allied with the USA in the WOT and still consider the enemy in the very war we are fighting also a friend????

Im not "desperate to lose"...whatever that silly statement is supposed to mean. You like throwing out these moronic statements , dont you?? Thats typical of people who dont know what they are talking about.

Is the violence down in Iraq??? Well, kind of. Violence against Iraqis and and the ISF is about the same. In January 2006 there were 537 civilian Iraqi and ISF deaths. In June 2008 there was 450. Not much of a difference there. But hey. im sure thats acceptable to you. Does the surge deserve credit?? Absolutely. Is the end-result something that was worth the Billions of our dollars spent, 4000 dead troops, and 30,000 permanently maimed/disabled. Well for guys like Fish who wanted to create a country that greets our enemy with hugs and rolls out the red carpet for them, i guess it is worth it.

Warfish · 07-22-2008, 01:26 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2639391]Please define "winning". Our goal was to create a model western style democracy allied with the USA in the WOT. Iraq is clearly (only a blind person wont admit to it) a friend/allie of Iran (a nation we consider an enemy and a member of the axis of evil). How can you be allied with the USA in the WOT and still consider the enemy in the very war we are fighting also a friend????

Im not "desperate to lose"...whatever that silly statement is supposed to mean. You like throwing out these moronic statements , dont you?? Thats typical of people who dont know what they are talking about.

Is the violence down in Iraq??? Well, kind of. Violence against Iraqis and and the ISF is about the same. In January 2006 there were 537 civilian Iraqi and ISF deaths. In June 2008 there was 450. Not much of a difference there. But hey. im sure thats acceptable to you. Does the surge deserve credit?? Absolutely. Is the end-result something that was worth the Billions of our dollars spent, 4000 dead troops, and 30,000 permanently maimed/disabled. Well for guys like Fish who wanted to create a country that greets our enemy with hugs and rolls out the red carpet for them, i guess it is worth it.[/QUOTE]

KEN DEATH SQUADS!!!!! ARRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!! RUN!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

It must really suck hoping your own country loses all the time. You must be one deeply unhappy and disatisfied man Ken. I feel VERY sorry for you. It's kind pathetic really, you seem to be a real success in your life, yet still you have nothing but complaints.

You cannot even find anything positive about winning. Guess for you, all there is is losing.

At least till the Socialist Messiah takes office. I have a feeling we'll hear a whole new Ken then, about how great the Obama Iraq plan is, and how we're winning in Afaganistan despite Bush (lord knows, we'll hear you pull the same things the Anti-Clinton crowd pulled, blaming Bush and deflecting for Obama the next 8 years, or 80 years, etc.).

How do I define winning? Iraq today vs. Iraq when the Dems declared it lost and Obama demanded immediate withdrawl. To me, the difference is a victory.

But again, don't fret little Ken. Your one-world, look to other countries for answers and defer because America is just another country, not great in any way, socialist dream will soon come true! Yay for you!

bitonti · 07-22-2008, 01:32 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2639475]
How do I define winning? Iraq today vs. Iraq when the Dems declared it lost and Obama demanded immediate withdrawl. To me, the difference is a victory.
[/QUOTE]

That's convenient.

Wouldn't it be nice if the NFL allowed the teams to define their own terms of victory?

"sure the Jets scored less points than the Pats, but they played better than last week, that's a victory"

moving the goalposts is fun.

SanAntonio_JetFan · 07-22-2008, 01:39 PM

Victory? That depends on who you are and who you believe.

If a milliary commander in Iraq indicates that our objectives are being met and that we are "winning", I'd pretty much define that as victory.

But, if that information contradicts your political ideology, then you can just write that commander off as a "betrayer".

Warfish · 07-22-2008, 01:41 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;2639488]That's convenient.

Wouldn't it be nice if the NFL allowed the teams to define their own terms of victory?

"sure the Jets scored less points than the Pats, but they played better than last week, that's a victory"

moving the goalposts is fun.[/QUOTE]

Sure it's Fun.

Obama does it on every issue almost daily, he must enjoy it too. I was unaware you were so against "flip-flopping" given your support of the empty-suit Messiah.

No worries Bit, you're in deep eyelash-batting roses and sex-jelly love with a empty-suit full of rediculous empty catch phrases who wants to wage endless war in Afganistan, where Empires go to die, and invade Pakistan (a nuclear cpable nation) but you're just full O' piss and vinegar because we've effectively won in Iraq but not enough to please you because the "goalposts got moved".

Your objectivity and independance is well established. Really (*snicker*). :rolleyes:

I'll make you a deal Bit. I'll define Victory in Iraq when Obama defines [U]anything[/U], like say "Victory in Afganistan" without a cue-card, teleprompter and 400 "advisors' telling him what he thinks. :rolleyes:

doggin94it · 07-22-2008, 01:43 PM

[quote=kennyo7;2639335]Uhhh, do you doubt that the successful ethnic cleansing campaigns at the hands of Shia Death Squads has lead to a decrease in the level of violence we see today??? Most of the fighting was between Iraqi Sunni and Shia groups vying for power (contrary to the popular belief that it was AQ behind most of the violence). The Shia Death Squads were very successful in shifting the ethnic demographics of Baghdad and many other Iraqis cities that were previously mixed. As the cities became mostly Shia the violence has dropped. The Shia Death Squads succeeded. This has truly lead to the drop in violence along with other factors. Obama was right.[/quote]

Actually, there was "ethnic cleansing" in Baghdad (really, of neighborhoods in Baghdad) and it had little to do with death squads (other than as an effect). What Obama is talking about is the fact that many formerly mixed Baghdadi neighborhoods are now relatively mono-ethnic; Sunni families moved out of majority Shia areas and vice versa. And he's right that it happened. But that's not why the violence level is down

07-22-2008, 11:45 AM	#1
SanAntonio_JetFan Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,481	Obama: Ethnic cleansing reduced violence Terry Moran asked ”if the country had pursued your policy of withdrawing in the face of this horrific violence, what do you think Iraq would look like now?” Obama said it would be hard to speculate. “The Sunnis might have made the same decisions at that time. The Shii’as might have made some similar decisions based on political calculation. [B]There was ethnic cleansing in Baghdad that actually took the violence level down[/B],” he said. :eek:

07-22-2008, 12:27 PM	#12
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=kennyo7;2639335]Uhhh, do you doubt that the successful ethnic cleansing campaigns at the hands of Shia Death Squads has lead to a decrease in the level of violence we see today??? Most of the fighting was between Iraqi Sunni and Shia groups vying for power (contrary to the popular belief that it was AQ behind most of the violence). The Shia Death Squads were very successful in shifting the ethnic demographics of Baghdad and many other Iraqis cities that were previously mixed. As the cities became mostly Shia the violence has dropped. The Shia Death Squads succeeded. This has truly lead to the drop in violence along with other factors. Obama was right.[/QUOTE] Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change. Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change. It must really wax your carrot that the Surge (i.e. Reinforcement of U.S. Troops to a More Appropriate Level) actually worked, and we have come so much closer to winning in Iraq, and leaving with Iraq stable. Your frustration and anger is so obvious, and it makes me laugh every time I read it. You were sooooo desperate for Bush Co. to lose, it kills you that we've all but won you so-called "unwinnable" war. And we did it losing less troops in all these years than died (in some cases) in hours in other Wars. But hey Ken, don't fret. :) Obama has pledged to keep American Troops in Iraq, albeit in a reduced role, and plans on opening up our efforts in Afganistan and Pakistan ten-fold of what they are today, up to and including American action in Pakistan without Pakistani approval. We'll see how he handled being Commander-in-Chief soon enough. You'll get your Universal healthcare, your higher taxation, your amnesty for illegals, your alt-fuel funding and oil-descrimination and more! So smile, it's all good for you these days. Last edited by Warfish; 07-22-2008 at 12:29 PM.

07-22-2008, 11:48 AM	#2
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,532	That is because Pakistan is on the Iraqi border. [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639293]Terry Moran asked ”if the country had pursued your policy of withdrawing in the face of this horrific violence, what do you think Iraq would look like now?” Obama said it would be hard to speculate. “The Sunnis might have made the same decisions at that time. The Shii’as might have made some similar decisions based on political calculation. [B]There was ethnic cleansing in Baghdad that actually took the violence level down[/B],” he said. :eek:[/QUOTE]

07-22-2008, 11:54 AM	#3
SanAntonio_JetFan Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,481	[QUOTE=cr726;2639298]That is because Pakistan is on the Iraqi border.[/QUOTE] :confused:

07-22-2008, 11:57 AM	#5
SanAntonio_JetFan Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,481	[QUOTE=cr726;2639313]I guess you only pay attention when Obama mis-speaks?[/QUOTE] Your response was nonsensical.

07-22-2008, 11:59 AM	#6
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,532	You start thread after thread about BS Obama quotes, that's it. [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639317]Your response was nonsensical.[/QUOTE]

07-22-2008, 12:03 PM	#7
SanAntonio_JetFan Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,481	[QUOTE=cr726;2639319]You start thread after thread about BS Obama quotes, that's it.[/QUOTE] Well, the guy has the largest brigade of TV news anchors ever assembled on his non-campaign event and he HAS TO BE EXPEXTING this question. Without a script or teleprompter, he just says some ridiculous crap.

07-22-2008, 12:05 PM	#8
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,532	Good job. McCain is and has been doing the same thing. [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639325]Well, the guy has the largest brigade of TV news anchors ever assembled on his non-campaign event and he HAS TO BE EXPEXTING this question. Without a script or teleprompter, he just says some ridiculous crap.[/QUOTE]

07-22-2008, 12:10 PM	#9
SanAntonio_JetFan Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,481	[QUOTE=cr726;2639328]Good job. McCain is and has been doing the same thing.[/QUOTE] I know you are, but what am I.

07-22-2008, 12:12 PM	#10
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,417	[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639293]Terry Moran asked ”if the country had pursued your policy of withdrawing in the face of this horrific violence, what do you think Iraq would look like now?” Obama said it would be hard to speculate. “The Sunnis might have made the same decisions at that time. The Shii’as might have made some similar decisions based on political calculation. [B]There was ethnic cleansing in Baghdad that actually took the violence level down[/B],” he said. :eek:[/QUOTE] Uhhh, do you doubt that the successful ethnic cleansing campaigns at the hands of Shia Death Squads has lead to a decrease in the level of violence we see today??? Most of the fighting was between Iraqi Sunni and Shia groups vying for power (contrary to the popular belief that it was AQ behind most of the violence). The Shia Death Squads were very successful in shifting the ethnic demographics of Baghdad and many other Iraqis cities that were previously mixed. As the cities became mostly Shia the violence has dropped. The Shia Death Squads succeeded. This has truly lead to the drop in violence along with other factors. Obama was right.

07-22-2008, 12:19 PM	#11
chicadeel All Pro Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,234	[QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639325][B]Well, the guy has the largest brigade of TV news anchors ever assembled on his non-campaign event[/B] and he HAS TO BE EXPEXTING this question. Without a script or teleprompter, he just says some ridiculous crap.[/QUOTE] .......And then we learn that.......... [U]Andrea Mitchell on Hardball[/U] Andrea: Let me say something about his message management. He didn’t have reporters with him. He didn’t have a press pool. He didn’t do a press conference while he was on the ground either on Afghanistan or Iraq. What you’re seeing is not reporters brought in, you’re seeing selected pictures taken by the military, questioned by the military and what some would call fake interviews because they’re not interviews with a journalist so there’s a real press issue here. Politically it’s smart as can be, but we’ve not seen a Presidential candidate do this in my recollection ever before. I don’t think journalism is the prime thing that we recruit them and pay them for.

07-22-2008, 12:28 PM	#13
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,532	Lame? [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639333]I know you are, but what am I.[/QUOTE]

07-22-2008, 12:35 PM	#14
SanAntonio_JetFan Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,481	[QUOTE=cr726;2639362]Lame?[/QUOTE] Exactly.

07-22-2008, 12:43 PM	#15
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,417	[QUOTE=Warfish;2639356]Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change. Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change Shia Death Squads Hope Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Shia Death Squads Change. It must really wax your carrot that the Surge (i.e. Reinforcement of U.S. Troops to a More Appropriate Level) actually worked, and [B]we have come so much closer to winning in Iraq, and leaving with Iraq stable[/B]. Your frustration and anger is so obvious, and it makes me laugh every time I read it. You were sooooo desperate for Bush Co. to lose, it kills you that we've all but won you so-called "unwinnable" war. And we did it losing less troops in all these years than died (in some cases) in hours in other Wars. But hey Ken, don't fret. :) Obama has pledged to keep American Troops in Iraq, albeit in a reduced role, and plans on opening up our efforts in Afganistan and Pakistan ten-fold of what they are today, up to and including American action in Pakistan without Pakistani approval. We'll see how he handled being Commander-in-Chief soon enough. You'll get your Universal healthcare, your higher taxation, your amnesty for illegals, your alt-fuel funding and oil-descrimination and more! So smile, it's all good for you these days.[/QUOTE] Please define "winning". Our goal was to create a model western style democracy allied with the USA in the WOT. Iraq is clearly (only a blind person wont admit to it) a friend/allie of Iran (a nation we consider an enemy and a member of the axis of evil). How can you be allied with the USA in the WOT and still consider the enemy in the very war we are fighting also a friend???? Im not "desperate to lose"...whatever that silly statement is supposed to mean. You like throwing out these moronic statements , dont you?? Thats typical of people who dont know what they are talking about. Is the violence down in Iraq??? Well, kind of. Violence against Iraqis and and the ISF is about the same. In January 2006 there were 537 civilian Iraqi and ISF deaths. In June 2008 there was 450. Not much of a difference there. But hey. im sure thats acceptable to you. Does the surge deserve credit?? Absolutely. Is the end-result something that was worth the Billions of our dollars spent, 4000 dead troops, and 30,000 permanently maimed/disabled. Well for guys like Fish who wanted to create a country that greets our enemy with hugs and rolls out the red carpet for them, i guess it is worth it.

07-22-2008, 01:26 PM	#16
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=kennyo7;2639391]Please define "winning". Our goal was to create a model western style democracy allied with the USA in the WOT. Iraq is clearly (only a blind person wont admit to it) a friend/allie of Iran (a nation we consider an enemy and a member of the axis of evil). How can you be allied with the USA in the WOT and still consider the enemy in the very war we are fighting also a friend???? Im not "desperate to lose"...whatever that silly statement is supposed to mean. You like throwing out these moronic statements , dont you?? Thats typical of people who dont know what they are talking about. Is the violence down in Iraq??? Well, kind of. Violence against Iraqis and and the ISF is about the same. In January 2006 there were 537 civilian Iraqi and ISF deaths. In June 2008 there was 450. Not much of a difference there. But hey. im sure thats acceptable to you. Does the surge deserve credit?? Absolutely. Is the end-result something that was worth the Billions of our dollars spent, 4000 dead troops, and 30,000 permanently maimed/disabled. Well for guys like Fish who wanted to create a country that greets our enemy with hugs and rolls out the red carpet for them, i guess it is worth it.[/QUOTE] KEN DEATH SQUADS!!!!! ARRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!! RUN!!!!!!!:rolleyes: It must really suck hoping your own country loses all the time. You must be one deeply unhappy and disatisfied man Ken. I feel VERY sorry for you. It's kind pathetic really, you seem to be a real success in your life, yet still you have nothing but complaints. You cannot even find anything positive about winning. Guess for you, all there is is losing. At least till the Socialist Messiah takes office. I have a feeling we'll hear a whole new Ken then, about how great the Obama Iraq plan is, and how we're winning in Afaganistan despite Bush (lord knows, we'll hear you pull the same things the Anti-Clinton crowd pulled, blaming Bush and deflecting for Obama the next 8 years, or 80 years, etc.). How do I define winning? Iraq today vs. Iraq when the Dems declared it lost and Obama demanded immediate withdrawl. To me, the difference is a victory. But again, don't fret little Ken. Your one-world, look to other countries for answers and defer because America is just another country, not great in any way, socialist dream will soon come true! Yay for you!

07-22-2008, 01:32 PM	#17
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=Warfish;2639475] How do I define winning? Iraq today vs. Iraq when the Dems declared it lost and Obama demanded immediate withdrawl. To me, the difference is a victory. [/QUOTE] That's convenient. Wouldn't it be nice if the NFL allowed the teams to define their own terms of victory? "sure the Jets scored less points than the Pats, but they played better than last week, that's a victory" moving the goalposts is fun.

07-22-2008, 01:39 PM	#18
SanAntonio_JetFan Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,481	Victory? That depends on who you are and who you believe. If a milliary commander in Iraq indicates that our objectives are being met and that we are "winning", I'd pretty much define that as victory. But, if that information contradicts your political ideology, then you can just write that commander off as a "betrayer".

07-22-2008, 01:41 PM	#19
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=bitonti;2639488]That's convenient. Wouldn't it be nice if the NFL allowed the teams to define their own terms of victory? "sure the Jets scored less points than the Pats, but they played better than last week, that's a victory" moving the goalposts is fun.[/QUOTE] Sure it's Fun. Obama does it on every issue almost daily, he must enjoy it too. I was unaware you were so against "flip-flopping" given your support of the empty-suit Messiah. No worries Bit, you're in deep eyelash-batting roses and sex-jelly love with a empty-suit full of rediculous empty catch phrases who wants to wage endless war in Afganistan, where Empires go to die, and invade Pakistan (a nuclear cpable nation) but you're just full O' piss and vinegar because we've effectively won in Iraq but not enough to please you because the "goalposts got moved". Your objectivity and independance is well established. Really (snicker). :rolleyes: I'll make you a deal Bit. I'll define Victory in Iraq when Obama defines [U]anything[/U], like say "Victory in Afganistan" without a cue-card, teleprompter and 400 "advisors' telling him what he thinks. :rolleyes:

07-22-2008, 01:43 PM	#20
doggin94it Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,522	[quote=kennyo7;2639335]Uhhh, do you doubt that the successful ethnic cleansing campaigns at the hands of Shia Death Squads has lead to a decrease in the level of violence we see today??? Most of the fighting was between Iraqi Sunni and Shia groups vying for power (contrary to the popular belief that it was AQ behind most of the violence). The Shia Death Squads were very successful in shifting the ethnic demographics of Baghdad and many other Iraqis cities that were previously mixed. As the cities became mostly Shia the violence has dropped. The Shia Death Squads succeeded. This has truly lead to the drop in violence along with other factors. Obama was right.[/quote] Actually, there was "ethnic cleansing" in Baghdad (really, of neighborhoods in Baghdad) and it had little to do with death squads (other than as an effect). What Obama is talking about is the fact that many formerly mixed Baghdadi neighborhoods are now relatively mono-ethnic; Sunni families moved out of majority Shia areas and vice versa. And he's right that it happened. But that's not why the violence level is down