McCain = toast

bitonti · 07-23-2008, 10:20 AM

[quote]

July 19, 2008 —

"Too close to call." "Within the margin of error." "A statistical dead heat." If you've been following news coverage of the 2008 presidential election, you're probably familiar with these phrases. Media commentary on the presidential horserace, reflecting the results of a series of new national polls, has strained to make a case for a hotly contested election that is essentially up for grabs.

Signs of Barack Obama's weaknesses allegedly abound. The huge generic Democratic Party advantage is not reflected in the McCain-Obama pairings in national polls. Why, according to the constant refrain, hasn't Obama put this election away? A large number of Clinton supporters in the primaries refuse to commit to Obama. White working class and senior voters tilt decidedly to McCain. Racial resentment limits Obama's support among these two critical voting blocs. Enthusiasm among young voters and African-Americans, two groups strongly attracted to Obama, is waning. McCain is widely seen as better prepared to step up to the responsibilities of commander-in-chief. Blah, blah, blah.

While no election outcome is guaranteed and McCain's prospects could improve over the next three and a half months, virtually all of the evidence that we have reviewed - historical patterns, structural features of this election cycle, and national and state polls conducted over the last several months - points to a comfortable Obama/Democratic party victory in November. Trumpeting this race as a toss-up, almost certain to produce another nail-biter finish, distorts the evidence and does a disservice to readers and viewers who rely upon such punditry.

Consider the following.

Except for a few days when the Gallup and Rasmussen tracking polls showed a tie, Barack Obama has led John McCain in every national poll in the past two months. Obama's average margin has consistently been in the 4-6 point range during this time. By contrast, the polls in 2000 and 2004 showed much more variation over time.

State polling data have also consistently given Obama the advantage. According to realclearpolitics.com, Obama is currently leading in 26 states and the District of Columbia with a total of 322 electoral votes; McCain is currently leading in 24 states with a total of 216 electoral votes. Obama is leading in every state carried by John Kerry in 2004 along with seven states carried by George Bush: Iowa, New Mexico, Ohio, Indiana, Virginia, Nevada and Colorado.

Obama is leading in 11 of the 12 swing states that were decided by a margin of five points or less in 2004 including five of the six that were carried by George Bush. And while Obama has a comfortable lead in every state that John Kerry won by a margin of more than five points in 2004, McCain is in a difficult battle in a number of states that Bush carried by a margin of more than five points including such solidly red states as Indiana, Montana, North Dakota, Virginia, and North Carolina.

And remember these June and July polls may well understate Obama's eventual margin. Ronald Reagan did not capitalize on the huge structural advantage Republicans enjoyed in 1980 until after the party conventions and presidential debate. It took a while and a sufficient level of comfort with the challenger for anti-Carter votes to translate into support for Reagan. If Obama's performance over the last eighteen months is any guide, a similar pattern is likely to unfold in 2008.

Aside from the horserace results, there is evidence of a growing Democratic Party advantage in the electorate. A recent analysis by Rhodes Cook of voter registration data in 29 states and the District of Columbia that permit registration by party shows that since November of 2004, Democratic registration has increased by almost 700 thousand while Republican registration has declined by almost one million.

Democrats now enjoy a substantial lead over Republicans in voter identification. According to the Gallup Poll, the two parties have gone from near parity four years ago to a 12 point Democratic advantage in the first half of 2008. And polling data continue to show that Democrats are more satisfied with their party's nominee than Republicans voters and more highly motivated to vote. While Republicans normally benefit from higher turnout among their supporters, that may not be the case this year.

In order to defeat Barack Obama, John McCain will have to convince a lot of disgruntled Republicans to turn out and vote for him. But mobilizing the Republican base, a strategy employed successfully by Karl Rove in 2002 and 2004, won't be enough for McCain to win in 2008. He'll also have to convince a majority of independents and a substantial number of Democrats to vote for him. That's a task that proved too difficult even for Rove in the 2006 midterm election and it may be even more difficult in 2008. That's because since 2006 the political environment has gone from bad to worse for Republicans.

[b]It is no exaggeration to say that the political environment this year is one of the worst for a party in the White House in the past sixty years.[/b] You have to go all the way back to 1952 to find an election involving the combination of an unpopular president, an unpopular war, and an economy teetering on the brink of recession. 1952 was also the last time the party in power wasn't represented by either the incumbent president or the incumbent vice-president. But the fact that Democrat Harry Truman wasn't on the ballot didn't stop Republican Dwight Eisenhower from inflicting a crushing defeat on Truman's would-be successor, Adlai Stevenson.

Barack Obama is not a national hero like Dwight Eisenhower, and George Bush is certainly no Harry Truman. But if history is any guide, and absent a dramatic change in election fundamentals or an utter collapse of the Obama candidacy, John McCain is likely to suffer the same fate as Adlai Stevenson.

[url]http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2008/0719_election_mann.aspx[/url]

[/quote]

by the way Abramowitz has correctly predicted popular vote winner in 14 of last 15 elections (1968 was the only miss)

jets5ever · 07-23-2008, 10:40 AM

Saw this, totally agree with it. Cannot fathom a McCain win. Think its going to be a slaughter.

Warfish · 07-23-2008, 10:41 AM

[QUOTE=jets5ever;2641202]Saw this, totally agree with it. Cannot fathom a McCain win. Think its going to be a slaughter.[/QUOTE]

Agree.

Jetdawgg · 07-23-2008, 10:51 AM

Also with the entire republican party senate and congressional seats looking weak.....McSame has a few things that can make a break for him as I see it.

OBL can be killed or caught as there are now more Marines in Afghan/Pak or his VP choice can be a real winner.

sackdance · 07-23-2008, 11:20 AM

I strongly disagree. You dudes have stars in your eyes.

Warfish · 07-23-2008, 11:33 AM

[QUOTE=sackdance;2641288]I strongly disagree. You dudes have stars in your eyes.[/QUOTE]

Please.:rolleyes:

Predicting something does not imply favoring that same something in ANY form whatsoever sack. You should know that.

I mean really, do you think Jets5 or I WANT to see Obama in office?

Exactly.

MnJetFan · 07-23-2008, 12:05 PM

McCain may be weak, but Obama is so far out there it is beyond understanding.

07-23-2008, 02:34 PM

[quote=Warfish;2641315]Please.:rolleyes:

Predicting something does not imply favoring that same something in ANY form whatsoever sack. You should know that.

I mean really, do you think Jets5 or I WANT to see Obama in office?

Exactly.[/quote]

then, why not vote in a way that keeps Obama out and puts Mccain in
the surest way is to vote for McCain. that sort of thing matters if you live in a state like, say OH or VA.

sackdance · 07-23-2008, 03:56 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2641315]Please.:rolleyes:

Predicting something does not imply favoring that same something in ANY form whatsoever sack. You should know that.

I mean really, do you think Jets5 or I WANT to see Obama in office?

Exactly.[/QUOTE]
I might have been on board with you but for three important factors:

1) When Obama had all the momentum (media too) in the world and was supposed to roll over Hillary, he did not...at all.

2) He has weaknesses you could drive a tractor trailer through. He is not, despite the glitz, a national hero. He is not Dwight Eisenhower (yet Eisenhower's name shows up again and again.)

3) Team Clinton.

quantum · 07-23-2008, 04:18 PM

[QUOTE=sackdance;2641839]I might have been on board with you but for three important factors:

1) When Obama had all the momentum (media too) in the world and was supposed to roll over Hillary, he did not...at all.

2) He has weaknesses you could drive a tractor trailer through. He is not, despite the glitz, a national hero. He is not Dwight Eisenhower (yet Eisenhower's name shows up again and again.)

3) Team Clinton.[/QUOTE]

I gotta agree - there's going to be a "lightbulb/what was i thinking" moment for a lot of people in the fall.

shakin318 · 07-23-2008, 04:28 PM

Yes, Obama has already won. You will have eleven chickens once they hatch.

bitonti · 07-23-2008, 04:47 PM

[QUOTE=quantum;2641895]I gotta agree - there's going to be a "lightbulb/what was i thinking" moment for a lot of people in the fall.[/QUOTE]

when did you have that moment about Bush?

jets5ever · 07-23-2008, 04:55 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;2641950]when did you have that moment about Bush?[/QUOTE]

Harriet Miers

Warfish · 07-23-2008, 05:02 PM

[QUOTE=flushingjet;2641656]then, why not vote in a way that keeps Obama out and puts Mccain in
the surest way is to vote for McCain. that sort of thing matters if you live in a state like, say OH or VA.[/QUOTE]

With all due respect, I see very little material policy difference between McCain and Obama. They differ only in the depth of their liberalism.

If you want to educate me, and explain what real-world policies will be different under each man, feel free. But voting for McCain just because he has a (R) next to his name does not automaticly make him a better, or different, choice. He is not a conservative, he does not stand for conservative positions, and if the country is going to suck under a Liberal, it may as well be a Liberal Democrat, and not a Liberal republican killing the ideals of Conservativism more than Bush has already done.

[QUOTE=quantum;2641895]I gotta agree - there's going to be a "lightbulb/what was i thinking" moment for a lot of people in the fall.[/QUOTE]

I think you're giving the general population far too much credit.

Press_Coverage · 07-23-2008, 05:04 PM

it's still quite up for grabs...

3 words explain why:

false flag operation...

the fear party need only ramp up the terror alert color code, and the dumbass soccer mom's will be in the McCain camp in no time...

sackdance · 07-23-2008, 05:09 PM

[QUOTE=Press_Coverage;2641974]the fear party need only ramp up the terror alert color code, and the dumbass soccer mom's will be in the McCain camp in no time...[/QUOTE]
Care to guess what percentage of soccer moms have a working command of the apostrophe?

Batmans A Scientist · 07-23-2008, 05:13 PM

I'd be pretty stunned if Obama wins. I just don't see it happening.

Press_Coverage · 07-23-2008, 05:14 PM

[QUOTE=sackdance;2641982]Care to guess what percentage of soccer moms have a working command of the apostrophe?[/QUOTE]

It was a simple typo.... is that the best you have? petty little Jet fan, aren't you?

Now, if you wanna get into a grammar and usage exchange, we can do that... I've seen some of your work...

2foolish197 · 07-23-2008, 05:16 PM

listen to me now and hear me later...there is no way barak obama will beat john mccain is the general election...no way...and guess why?

adb280z · 07-23-2008, 08:07 PM

[QUOTE=2foolish197;2641993]listen to me now and hear me later...there is no way barak obama will beat john mccain is the general election...no way...and guess why?[/QUOTE]

Why?

07-23-2008, 10:20 AM	#1
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	McCain = toast [quote] July 19, 2008 — "Too close to call." "Within the margin of error." "A statistical dead heat." If you've been following news coverage of the 2008 presidential election, you're probably familiar with these phrases. Media commentary on the presidential horserace, reflecting the results of a series of new national polls, has strained to make a case for a hotly contested election that is essentially up for grabs. Signs of Barack Obama's weaknesses allegedly abound. The huge generic Democratic Party advantage is not reflected in the McCain-Obama pairings in national polls. Why, according to the constant refrain, hasn't Obama put this election away? A large number of Clinton supporters in the primaries refuse to commit to Obama. White working class and senior voters tilt decidedly to McCain. Racial resentment limits Obama's support among these two critical voting blocs. Enthusiasm among young voters and African-Americans, two groups strongly attracted to Obama, is waning. McCain is widely seen as better prepared to step up to the responsibilities of commander-in-chief. Blah, blah, blah. While no election outcome is guaranteed and McCain's prospects could improve over the next three and a half months, virtually all of the evidence that we have reviewed - historical patterns, structural features of this election cycle, and national and state polls conducted over the last several months - points to a comfortable Obama/Democratic party victory in November. Trumpeting this race as a toss-up, almost certain to produce another nail-biter finish, distorts the evidence and does a disservice to readers and viewers who rely upon such punditry. Consider the following. Except for a few days when the Gallup and Rasmussen tracking polls showed a tie, Barack Obama has led John McCain in every national poll in the past two months. Obama's average margin has consistently been in the 4-6 point range during this time. By contrast, the polls in 2000 and 2004 showed much more variation over time. State polling data have also consistently given Obama the advantage. According to realclearpolitics.com, Obama is currently leading in 26 states and the District of Columbia with a total of 322 electoral votes; McCain is currently leading in 24 states with a total of 216 electoral votes. Obama is leading in every state carried by John Kerry in 2004 along with seven states carried by George Bush: Iowa, New Mexico, Ohio, Indiana, Virginia, Nevada and Colorado. Obama is leading in 11 of the 12 swing states that were decided by a margin of five points or less in 2004 including five of the six that were carried by George Bush. And while Obama has a comfortable lead in every state that John Kerry won by a margin of more than five points in 2004, McCain is in a difficult battle in a number of states that Bush carried by a margin of more than five points including such solidly red states as Indiana, Montana, North Dakota, Virginia, and North Carolina. And remember these June and July polls may well understate Obama's eventual margin. Ronald Reagan did not capitalize on the huge structural advantage Republicans enjoyed in 1980 until after the party conventions and presidential debate. It took a while and a sufficient level of comfort with the challenger for anti-Carter votes to translate into support for Reagan. If Obama's performance over the last eighteen months is any guide, a similar pattern is likely to unfold in 2008. Aside from the horserace results, there is evidence of a growing Democratic Party advantage in the electorate. A recent analysis by Rhodes Cook of voter registration data in 29 states and the District of Columbia that permit registration by party shows that since November of 2004, Democratic registration has increased by almost 700 thousand while Republican registration has declined by almost one million. Democrats now enjoy a substantial lead over Republicans in voter identification. According to the Gallup Poll, the two parties have gone from near parity four years ago to a 12 point Democratic advantage in the first half of 2008. And polling data continue to show that Democrats are more satisfied with their party's nominee than Republicans voters and more highly motivated to vote. While Republicans normally benefit from higher turnout among their supporters, that may not be the case this year. In order to defeat Barack Obama, John McCain will have to convince a lot of disgruntled Republicans to turn out and vote for him. But mobilizing the Republican base, a strategy employed successfully by Karl Rove in 2002 and 2004, won't be enough for McCain to win in 2008. He'll also have to convince a majority of independents and a substantial number of Democrats to vote for him. That's a task that proved too difficult even for Rove in the 2006 midterm election and it may be even more difficult in 2008. That's because since 2006 the political environment has gone from bad to worse for Republicans. [b]It is no exaggeration to say that the political environment this year is one of the worst for a party in the White House in the past sixty years.[/b] You have to go all the way back to 1952 to find an election involving the combination of an unpopular president, an unpopular war, and an economy teetering on the brink of recession. 1952 was also the last time the party in power wasn't represented by either the incumbent president or the incumbent vice-president. But the fact that Democrat Harry Truman wasn't on the ballot didn't stop Republican Dwight Eisenhower from inflicting a crushing defeat on Truman's would-be successor, Adlai Stevenson. Barack Obama is not a national hero like Dwight Eisenhower, and George Bush is certainly no Harry Truman. But if history is any guide, and absent a dramatic change in election fundamentals or an utter collapse of the Obama candidacy, John McCain is likely to suffer the same fate as Adlai Stevenson. [url]http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2008/0719_election_mann.aspx[/url] [/quote] by the way Abramowitz has correctly predicted popular vote winner in 14 of last 15 elections (1968 was the only miss)

07-23-2008, 10:40 AM	#2
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	Saw this, totally agree with it. Cannot fathom a McCain win. Think its going to be a slaughter.

07-23-2008, 10:41 AM	#3
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=jets5ever;2641202]Saw this, totally agree with it. Cannot fathom a McCain win. Think its going to be a slaughter.[/QUOTE] Agree.

07-23-2008, 10:51 AM	#4
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	Also with the entire republican party senate and congressional seats looking weak.....McSame has a few things that can make a break for him as I see it. OBL can be killed or caught as there are now more Marines in Afghan/Pak or his VP choice can be a real winner.

07-23-2008, 11:20 AM	#5
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,882	I strongly disagree. You dudes have stars in your eyes.

07-23-2008, 11:33 AM	#6
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=sackdance;2641288]I strongly disagree. You dudes have stars in your eyes.[/QUOTE] Please.:rolleyes: Predicting something does not imply favoring that same something in ANY form whatsoever sack. You should know that. I mean really, do you think Jets5 or I WANT to see Obama in office? Exactly.

07-23-2008, 12:05 PM	#7
MnJetFan All League Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,302	McCain may be weak, but Obama is so far out there it is beyond understanding.

07-23-2008, 02:34 PM	#8
flushingjet Edit Status Guest Posts: n/a	[quote=Warfish;2641315]Please.:rolleyes: Predicting something does not imply favoring that same something in ANY form whatsoever sack. You should know that. I mean really, do you think Jets5 or I WANT to see Obama in office? Exactly.[/quote] then, why not vote in a way that keeps Obama out and puts Mccain in the surest way is to vote for McCain. that sort of thing matters if you live in a state like, say OH or VA.

07-23-2008, 03:56 PM	#9
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,882	[QUOTE=Warfish;2641315]Please.:rolleyes: Predicting something does not imply favoring that same something in ANY form whatsoever sack. You should know that. I mean really, do you think Jets5 or I WANT to see Obama in office? Exactly.[/QUOTE] I might have been on board with you but for three important factors: 1) When Obama had all the momentum (media too) in the world and was supposed to roll over Hillary, he did not...at all. 2) He has weaknesses you could drive a tractor trailer through. He is not, despite the glitz, a national hero. He is not Dwight Eisenhower (yet Eisenhower's name shows up again and again.) 3) Team Clinton.

07-23-2008, 04:18 PM	#10
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 17,884	[QUOTE=sackdance;2641839]I might have been on board with you but for three important factors: 1) When Obama had all the momentum (media too) in the world and was supposed to roll over Hillary, he did not...at all. 2) He has weaknesses you could drive a tractor trailer through. He is not, despite the glitz, a national hero. He is not Dwight Eisenhower (yet Eisenhower's name shows up again and again.) 3) Team Clinton.[/QUOTE] I gotta agree - there's going to be a "lightbulb/what was i thinking" moment for a lot of people in the fall.

07-23-2008, 04:28 PM	#11
shakin318 Beslubbering beef-witted lout Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Funkytown Posts: 7,176	Yes, Obama has already won. You will have eleven chickens once they hatch.

07-23-2008, 04:47 PM	#12
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=quantum;2641895]I gotta agree - there's going to be a "lightbulb/what was i thinking" moment for a lot of people in the fall.[/QUOTE] when did you have that moment about Bush?

07-23-2008, 04:55 PM	#13
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	[QUOTE=bitonti;2641950]when did you have that moment about Bush?[/QUOTE] Harriet Miers

07-23-2008, 05:02 PM	#14
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=flushingjet;2641656]then, why not vote in a way that keeps Obama out and puts Mccain in the surest way is to vote for McCain. that sort of thing matters if you live in a state like, say OH or VA.[/QUOTE] With all due respect, I see very little material policy difference between McCain and Obama. They differ only in the depth of their liberalism. If you want to educate me, and explain what real-world policies will be different under each man, feel free. But voting for McCain just because he has a (R) next to his name does not automaticly make him a better, or different, choice. He is not a conservative, he does not stand for conservative positions, and if the country is going to suck under a Liberal, it may as well be a Liberal Democrat, and not a Liberal republican killing the ideals of Conservativism more than Bush has already done. [QUOTE=quantum;2641895]I gotta agree - there's going to be a "lightbulb/what was i thinking" moment for a lot of people in the fall.[/QUOTE] I think you're giving the general population far too much credit.

07-23-2008, 05:04 PM	#15
Press_Coverage Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,123	it's still quite up for grabs... 3 words explain why: false flag operation... the fear party need only ramp up the terror alert color code, and the dumbass soccer mom's will be in the McCain camp in no time...

07-23-2008, 05:09 PM	#16
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,882	[QUOTE=Press_Coverage;2641974]the fear party need only ramp up the terror alert color code, and the dumbass soccer mom's will be in the McCain camp in no time...[/QUOTE] Care to guess what percentage of soccer moms have a working command of the apostrophe?

07-23-2008, 05:13 PM	#17
Batmans A Scientist Watching the American East Championship All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Manhattan, NY Posts: 8,512	I'd be pretty stunned if Obama wins. I just don't see it happening.

07-23-2008, 05:14 PM	#18
Press_Coverage Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,123	[QUOTE=sackdance;2641982]Care to guess what percentage of soccer moms have a working command of the apostrophe?[/QUOTE] It was a simple typo.... is that the best you have? petty little Jet fan, aren't you? Now, if you wanna get into a grammar and usage exchange, we can do that... I've seen some of your work...

07-23-2008, 05:16 PM	#19
2foolish197 i suspect hanky-panky All League Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: astoria Posts: 4,528	listen to me now and hear me later...there is no way barak obama will beat john mccain is the general election...no way...and guess why?

07-23-2008, 08:07 PM	#20
adb280z All League Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Belleville, NJ Posts: 3,429	[QUOTE=2foolish197;2641993]listen to me now and hear me later...there is no way barak obama will beat john mccain is the general election...no way...and guess why?[/QUOTE] Why?