Injuries set to derail the Mets again?

Tony Danza · 08-19-2008, 12:51 PM

In 2006 the Mets started off red hot and seemed like they could cruise through the weak field of the NL that year and march right into the world series. What happened of course was Pedro, Duque, and Sanchez were lost for the playoffs while Floyd was about half dead himself. The Sanchez injury was especially hurtful since it forced the Mets to deal Nady. We all know how that season ended...

Now, with a slim lead and a month to go in the season the Mets are trying to hold on and squeak into the post season. The problem now is that Wagner, the best (not saying a whole lot) pitcher and anchor of the bullpen, has pain in his forearm and elbow along with swelling. Sanchez, the once dominant setup man, has lost about 5 mph off an already slower fastball. Maine, the standout hero of the Mets shortend 06 post season run has a beat up shoulder, runs his pitch count up too fast, and is also losing velocity on his fastball. Not to mention both corner outfielders have spent the majority of this season on the DL.

Is it going to be deja-vu all over again? So close yet so far?

Snakebiten? A season ending injury for Wagner would say so.

Lets hope he is ok...

JV51 · 08-19-2008, 02:07 PM

Sounds like Wagner may be done for the year.

Team debating if Maine should be the closer.

I would guess Maine would be the closer and Niese would be called up.

Tony Danza · 08-19-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JV51

Sounds like Wagner may be done for the year.

Team debating if Maine should be the closer.

I would guess Maine would be the closer and Niese would be called up.

I think that would be the best course of action. No one else really has the makeup of a closer. Sanchez has the mindset but not the stuff, Heilman the stuff and not the minset and every other reliever is somewhere in between. However, I wouldnt be against giving Ayala a look maybe some pressure would do him good. Niese also sounds like he is ready for the big leagues. He has transitioned over to AAA very nicely so far.

AnthonySerp · 08-19-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JV51

Sounds like Wagner may be done for the year.

Team debating if Maine should be the closer.

I would guess Maine would be the closer and Niese would be called up.

link???

who would take maines spot in the rotation

chad101 · 08-19-2008, 03:17 PM

The main issue will be getting to the post season with the bullpen injuries...Wags and Sanchez lost velocity though he claims that he is healthy.

Once in the post season I trust a healthy Maine as much as I do Wags in a big spot. That is without even seeing Maine close. Says a lot about Wagner doesn't it.

In the post season we can get by without Maine in the rotation. The challenge now is getting there with a revamped bullpen. I am not sure Maine is healthy enough to close but we will see. Not sure how serious we are on even making this move.

I am sure Omar is working on whomever cleared waivers late inning reliever wise. Unfortunately it will likely cost us prospects. Al Reyes was just released by Tampa and while having pitched bad the 2nd half of last year and this year, he does have closing experience and the make up for the job.

JumbalayaJet · 08-19-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JV51

Sounds like Wagner may be done for the year.

Team debating if Maine should be the closer.

I would guess Maine would be the closer and Niese would be called up.

I heard the same but I'm dismissing it as sports talk radio speculation. Maine has his own health concern and isn't up to full speed. A closer needs some gas.

chad101 · 08-19-2008, 03:21 PM

We now also need to be players in the KRod off season sweepstakes.

We won't be hurting Wag's feelings as the FO stance should simply be injury concern. It does throw the payroll out of whack but we would be coasting comfortably had we closed out the majority of the games we have let slip away.

JV51 · 08-19-2008, 03:33 PM

No thanks to KRod. Overrated, lots of wear and tear on that arm for his age.

Tony Danza · 08-19-2008, 03:37 PM

The Mets definately need at least one good bullpen arm. However, if Burgos can come back strong and Kunz start to contribute we might be ok.

JV51 · 08-19-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Danza

The Mets definately need at least one good bullpen arm. However, if Burgos can come back strong and Kunz start to contribute we might be ok.

I dont expect Burgos back but next year he and Kunz will be spring training candidates. Burgos was solid with us in the short period but his control... geesh. The guy I want this FA is a guy who can be your set up man in Scott Downs.

green&white · 08-19-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JV51

No thanks to KRod. Overrated, lots of wear and tear on that arm for his age.

Overated? Perhaps, but tell me you wouldn't take him over any reliever we have. As far as wear and tear, he's thrown 430+ innings over the last six years!! How is that wear and tear? Compare that to Santana who's thrown 3 times the number of innings and is 3 years older.... sign me up!

JV51 · 08-19-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by green&white

Overated? Perhaps, but tell me you wouldn't take him over any reliever we have. As far as wear and tear, he's thrown 430+ innings over the last six years!! How is that wear and tear? Compare that to Santana who's thrown 3 times the number of innings and is 3 years older.... sign me up!

He's a reliever. How can you compare a reliever to a starter in terms of IP? He has very good stuff but he's not unhittable anymore (1.3 whip aint pretty for a reliever). His velocity has decreased by 2 miles this year and has declined every year. Don't get me wrong, he's a top 10 closer but would you want to commit 75M over 5 years to him and give up your first round draft pick? Not me.

IM3 · 08-19-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JV51

He's a reliever. How can you compare a reliever to a starter in terms of IP? He has very good stuff but he's not unhittable anymore (1.3 whip aint pretty for a reliever). His velocity has decreased by 2 miles this year and has declined every year. Don't get me wrong, he's a top 10 closer but would you want to commit 75M over 5 years to him and give up your first round draft pick? Not me.

Stay away from K-Rod, target some hard throwing arms via trade. Or guys with good track records that have had a "down" year relieving.

JV51 · 08-19-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IM3

Stay away from K-Rod, target some hard throwing arms via trade. Or guys with good track records that have had a "down" year relieving.

I say we stay away from Jose Reyes. You still hate him and want to trade him right?

IM3 · 08-19-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JV51

I say we stay away from Jose Reyes. You still hate him and want to trade him right?

Keep on posting that the Mets are garbage, every time you start a thread that they suck they seem to roll off a nice streak.

JeffWeaverFan · 08-19-2008, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chad101

We now also need to be players in the KRod off season sweepstakes.

We won't be hurting Wag's feelings as the FO stance should simply be injury concern. It does throw the payroll out of whack but we would be coasting comfortably had we closed out the majority of the games we have let slip away.

There is not a chance that Wagner, if healthy next year, would be okay in the setup role. And, are you really willing to give KRod 5/$75M like he wants?

chad101 · 08-20-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan

There is not a chance that Wagner, if healthy next year, would be okay in the setup role. And, are you really willing to give KRod 5/$75M like he wants?

Omar and Manuel have already shown they do not base their decisions to what a player is okay with when determining what is best for the team.

As to KRod $$$$$, this same argument was mentioned when we signed Johan to a extension. I am happy with that decision and having seen us blow enough games this year that it may cost us the post season I am indeed ok with paying for a upper echelon closer. We also have no idea if Wagner will be healthy. Would I prefer a cheaper solution? Sure but I don't see one as of yet.

It's funny how some Yankee fans who dissed CC at trade deadline now have no issues with paying him Johan money next season when they claim to have the best young arms in baseball. When it comes to a Mets fan suggesting signing KRod it is deemed crazy.

Tony Danza · 08-20-2008, 10:48 AM

I think Jeff Weaver fan is right, no way we invest that kind of money into K-Rod with Wagner still under contract. There are other roads to go down in looking for a closer. I for one wouldnt mind them signing Al Reyes for cheap money and see how he pans out. Relief pitching is such a strange position, guys who are good one year can suck the next. Just need to throw a bunch of crap at the wall and see what sticks.

chad101 · 08-20-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Danza

I think Jeff Weaver fan is right, no way we invest that kind of money into K-Rod with Wagner still under contract. There are other roads to go down in looking for a closer. I for one wouldnt mind them signing Al Reyes for cheap money and see how he pans out. Relief pitching is such a strange position, guys who are good one year can suck the next. Just need to throw a bunch of crap at the wall and see what sticks.

Eh we are only on the hook to Wagner for 11.5 including buying out 2010 option. KRod is 26 and the old throwing crap at the wall scenario is not working out to well with our pen right now is it? The Yanks tried that approach with Ensberg, Betemit,Duncan and Sexon to no avail as possible
1B/DH options. I am not a fan of doing the same with the much more important closer situation. Keep in mind we would be on cruise control if not for our bull pen. I agree middle relievers are year to year as to production but the Nathan's, Mo's, KRod's of the game are givens barring injury.

It's a ways off so not worth debating. I agree we should grab Reyes for this year and see what happens. Next year however the position needs to be stable. If that's a healthy Wagner so be it.

Ven0m · 08-20-2008, 01:07 PM

I've said all along the only way I see us pursuing K-Rod is if Wagner is traded or expected to miss a significant portion of the 2009 season, and as of right now I don't expect either to be the case.

It's probably better to avoid K-Rod anyways, all of his success is due to violent mechanics that are already beginning to take their toll on him, see the lower velocity, K rate, elevated WHIP. One could argue that this is statistically his worst season, despite the high save totals. I'd hope he will be fine for the next 4 seasons, but it's a higher risk.

08-19-2008, 12:51 PM	#1
Tony Danza All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,696	Injuries set to derail the Mets again? In 2006 the Mets started off red hot and seemed like they could cruise through the weak field of the NL that year and march right into the world series. What happened of course was Pedro, Duque, and Sanchez were lost for the playoffs while Floyd was about half dead himself. The Sanchez injury was especially hurtful since it forced the Mets to deal Nady. We all know how that season ended... Now, with a slim lead and a month to go in the season the Mets are trying to hold on and squeak into the post season. The problem now is that Wagner, the best (not saying a whole lot) pitcher and anchor of the bullpen, has pain in his forearm and elbow along with swelling. Sanchez, the once dominant setup man, has lost about 5 mph off an already slower fastball. Maine, the standout hero of the Mets shortend 06 post season run has a beat up shoulder, runs his pitch count up too fast, and is also losing velocity on his fastball. Not to mention both corner outfielders have spent the majority of this season on the DL. Is it going to be deja-vu all over again? So close yet so far? Snakebiten? A season ending injury for Wagner would say so. Lets hope he is ok...

08-19-2008, 02:07 PM	#2
JV51 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 11,025	Sounds like Wagner may be done for the year. Team debating if Maine should be the closer. I would guess Maine would be the closer and Niese would be called up.

08-19-2008, 03:17 PM	#5
chad101 Banned Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,463	The main issue will be getting to the post season with the bullpen injuries...Wags and Sanchez lost velocity though he claims that he is healthy. Once in the post season I trust a healthy Maine as much as I do Wags in a big spot. That is without even seeing Maine close. Says a lot about Wagner doesn't it. In the post season we can get by without Maine in the rotation. The challenge now is getting there with a revamped bullpen. I am not sure Maine is healthy enough to close but we will see. Not sure how serious we are on even making this move. I am sure Omar is working on whomever cleared waivers late inning reliever wise. Unfortunately it will likely cost us prospects. Al Reyes was just released by Tampa and while having pitched bad the 2nd half of last year and this year, he does have closing experience and the make up for the job.

08-19-2008, 03:21 PM	#7
chad101 Banned Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,463	We now also need to be players in the KRod off season sweepstakes. We won't be hurting Wag's feelings as the FO stance should simply be injury concern. It does throw the payroll out of whack but we would be coasting comfortably had we closed out the majority of the games we have let slip away.

08-19-2008, 03:33 PM	#8
JV51 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 11,025	No thanks to KRod. Overrated, lots of wear and tear on that arm for his age.

08-19-2008, 03:37 PM	#9
Tony Danza All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,696	The Mets definately need at least one good bullpen arm. However, if Burgos can come back strong and Kunz start to contribute we might be ok.

08-20-2008, 10:48 AM	#18
Tony Danza All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,696	I think Jeff Weaver fan is right, no way we invest that kind of money into K-Rod with Wagner still under contract. There are other roads to go down in looking for a closer. I for one wouldnt mind them signing Al Reyes for cheap money and see how he pans out. Relief pitching is such a strange position, guys who are good one year can suck the next. Just need to throw a bunch of crap at the wall and see what sticks.

08-20-2008, 01:07 PM	#20
Ven0m a shutdown poster Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NY Posts: 18,349	I've said all along the only way I see us pursuing K-Rod is if Wagner is traded or expected to miss a significant portion of the 2009 season, and as of right now I don't expect either to be the case. It's probably better to avoid K-Rod anyways, all of his success is due to violent mechanics that are already beginning to take their toll on him, see the lower velocity, K rate, elevated WHIP. One could argue that this is statistically his worst season, despite the high save totals. I'd hope he will be fine for the next 4 seasons, but it's a higher risk.