Fact vs. Fiction at the GOP Convention

Klecko73isGod · 09-04-2008, 12:43 PM

Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer
Wed Sep 3, 11:48 PM ET

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.

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Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform — not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state — by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right — change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington — throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check[/url]

Warfish · 09-04-2008, 12:45 PM

Fact vs. Fiction on Klecko73.

He claims he was a Republican. Yet posts like a lifelong Liberal Democrat.

Piper · 09-04-2008, 12:46 PM

Already posted and debunked as very little fact.

More like selective statistics immitating fact. Or statements that don't directly concern the statement above

Klecko73isGod · 09-04-2008, 12:54 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2726749]Fact vs. Fiction on Klecko73.

He claims he was a Republican. Yet posts like a lifelong Liberal Democrat.[/QUOTE]

No, I am a Republican who is fed up with the neo con religious nuts who have hijacked my party.

Piper · 09-04-2008, 12:55 PM

[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2726773]No, I am a Republican who is fed up with the neo con religious nuts who have hijacked my party.[/QUOTE]

John McCain is a neo-con religious nut?

Warfish · 09-04-2008, 12:57 PM

[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2726773]No, I am a Rino-publican who is fed up with the conservatives who think they deserve to have representation. Libs rule.[/QUOTE]

Fixed.:D

Klecko73isGod · 09-04-2008, 01:01 PM

[QUOTE=Piper;2726775]John McCain is a neo-con religious nut?[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, he's swamped by the party's current base, which led to him picking that empty skirt as his VP.

Klecko73isGod · 09-04-2008, 01:02 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2726779]Fixed.:D[/QUOTE]

Conservatives are fine. Neo-cons are not conservative.

Savage69 · 09-04-2008, 01:03 PM

[QUOTE=Piper;2726775]John McCain is a neo-con religious nut?[/QUOTE]

Klecko is just a whining Bloging shameless spamming Nut..:P

Klecko73isGod · 09-04-2008, 01:14 PM

[QUOTE=Savage69;2726796]Klecko is just a whining Bloging shameless spamming Nut..:P[/QUOTE]

And you're nothing but a post compiler. :P

SMC · 09-04-2008, 01:21 PM

[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2726773]No, I am a Republican who is fed up with the neo con religious nuts who have hijacked my party.[/QUOTE]

And don't forget, Kleck, Palin supports Jews for Jesus whose leader preached to Palin's congregation that terrorist acts against Jews is God's judgment against the Jews.

Of course, Rev. Wright hates Jews, but that's just his personal opinion. ;)

MnJetFan · 09-04-2008, 01:25 PM

Wow a women who thinks for herself is a empty skirt, but Obama who is programmed by his party is considered a change!

Savage69 · 09-04-2008, 01:27 PM

[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2726825]And you're nothing but a post compiler. :P[/QUOTE]

Kleck are you going to the Game this year??

Klecko73isGod · 09-04-2008, 01:40 PM

[QUOTE=SMC;2726845]And don't forget, Kleck, Palin supports Jews for Jesus whose leader preached to Palin's congregation that terrorist acts against Jews is God's judgment against the Jews.

Of course, Rev. Wright hates Jews, but that's just his personal opinion. ;)[/QUOTE]

Jews for Jesus? You mean Christians?

But seriously, I'm a Jew and I hate Jews. (But when I say it, it's funny. We're a very funny people, you know?)

Klecko73isGod · 09-04-2008, 01:40 PM

[QUOTE=Savage69;2726863]Kleck are you going to the Game this year??[/QUOTE]

Not quite sure. Will be a gametime decision.

jets5ever · 09-04-2008, 03:04 PM

This is a "fact?" : [I]He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest.[/I] Oh, so capital gains and dividend taxes on the non-wealthiest will be unaffected? Does he think only the "wealthiest" pay these cap gains and dividend taxes? People with high incomes but not a lot of wealth won't see income taxes or cap gains and div taxes rise? This guy is an idiot with no clue about basic economics or tax policies. I love these "Myth/Fact" articles, as if writing, in caps, the word "FACT" in front of an opinion gives it any validity at all.

The attempt to make it seem like a "FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" that Obama has actually done anything in the Senate is particularly hilarious.

09-04-2008, 03:47 PM

[quote=Klecko73isGod;2726792]Conservatives are fine. Neo-cons are not conservative.[/quote]

So, in your view who & what's a conservative. Sounds like paranoia from living in the South where everything you are is a minority of some kind!

40 years ago the original "neo-cons" were mostly Jewish Socialists. Using it in the perjorative is still considered a slur against Jews because Wolfie and Perle are always lumped in w/ Cheney. Kinda like calling someone n______ and redefining/qualifying it with hey, I dont mean the original 1928 I want to hang you from a tree, n______ version, I meant the new 2008 slightly less unkinder version.

Sharrow · 09-04-2008, 09:29 PM

[QUOTE=flushingjet;2727314]So, in your view who & what's a conservative. Sounds like paranoia from living in the South where everything you are is a minority of some kind!

40 years ago the original "neo-cons" were mostly Jewish Socialists. Using it in the perjorative is still considered a slur against Jews because Wolfie and Perle are always lumped in w/ Cheney. Kinda like calling someone n______ and redefining/qualifying it with hey, I dont mean the original 1928 I want to hang you from a tree, n______ version, I meant the new 2008 slightly less unkinder version.[/QUOTE]

Lol, you think calling someone a neo-con with a negative tone is comparative to calling a black person the n word? I don't think the people using the word mean "jew" when they say it, I think they mean "idiot."

HDCentStOhio · 09-04-2008, 10:09 PM

[QUOTE=Sharrow;2728058]Lol, you think calling someone a neo-con with a negative tone is comparative to calling a black person the n word? I don't think the people using the word mean "jew" when they say it, I think they mean "idiot."[/QUOTE]

Flushing is correct. You have no clue what you are talking about. Do a little research.

Warfish · 09-04-2008, 10:27 PM

[QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;2728190]PS. You're a pretty smart guy, flushing .. I was very wrong in the PSL debate when I accused you of lacking original ideas .. I still think you're position on the PSL's was a little to Rand'ian for my taste, but you are definitely a thoughtful and engaging poster who [B]DOES NOT[/B] take his marching orders from anyone .. I really enjoy reading your opinions[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Flushing is many many many things....

Dumb is [U]definitely[/U] not one of them. :yes:

09-04-2008, 12:43 PM	#1
Klecko73isGod Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,750	Fact vs. Fiction at the GOP Convention Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer Wed Sep 3, 11:48 PM ET ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth. ADVERTISEMENT Some examples: PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere." THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere." PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform — not even in the state senate." THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation. PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars." THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded. Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families. He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise. MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson. THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state — by population. MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC. THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations. FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States." THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries. FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right — change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington — throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin." THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate. [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check[/url]

09-04-2008, 01:21 PM	#11
SMC Day-to-day Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 22,032	[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2726773]No, I am a Republican who is fed up with the neo con religious nuts who have hijacked my party.[/QUOTE] And don't forget, Kleck, Palin supports Jews for Jesus whose leader preached to Palin's congregation that terrorist acts against Jews is God's judgment against the Jews. Of course, Rev. Wright hates Jews, but that's just his personal opinion. ;) Last edited by SMC; 09-04-2008 at 01:24 PM.

09-04-2008, 12:45 PM	#2
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	Fact vs. Fiction on Klecko73. He claims he was a Republican. Yet posts like a lifelong Liberal Democrat.

09-04-2008, 12:46 PM	#3
Piper Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from) Posts: 13,197	Already posted and debunked as very little fact. More like selective statistics immitating fact. Or statements that don't directly concern the statement above

09-04-2008, 12:54 PM	#4
Klecko73isGod Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,750	[QUOTE=Warfish;2726749]Fact vs. Fiction on Klecko73. He claims he was a Republican. Yet posts like a lifelong Liberal Democrat.[/QUOTE] No, I am a Republican who is fed up with the neo con religious nuts who have hijacked my party.

09-04-2008, 12:55 PM	#5
Piper Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from) Posts: 13,197	[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2726773]No, I am a Republican who is fed up with the neo con religious nuts who have hijacked my party.[/QUOTE] John McCain is a neo-con religious nut?

09-04-2008, 12:57 PM	#6
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2726773]No, I am a Rino-publican who is fed up with the conservatives who think they deserve to have representation. Libs rule.[/QUOTE] Fixed.:D

09-04-2008, 01:01 PM	#7
Klecko73isGod Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,750	[QUOTE=Piper;2726775]John McCain is a neo-con religious nut?[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, he's swamped by the party's current base, which led to him picking that empty skirt as his VP.

09-04-2008, 01:02 PM	#8
Klecko73isGod Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,750	[QUOTE=Warfish;2726779]Fixed.:D[/QUOTE] Conservatives are fine. Neo-cons are not conservative.

09-04-2008, 01:03 PM	#9
Savage69 Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 39,294	[QUOTE=Piper;2726775]John McCain is a neo-con religious nut?[/QUOTE] Klecko is just a whining Bloging shameless spamming Nut..:P

09-04-2008, 01:14 PM	#10
Klecko73isGod Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,750	[QUOTE=Savage69;2726796]Klecko is just a whining Bloging shameless spamming Nut..:P[/QUOTE] And you're nothing but a post compiler. :P

09-04-2008, 01:25 PM	#12
MnJetFan All League Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,302	Wow a women who thinks for herself is a empty skirt, but Obama who is programmed by his party is considered a change!

09-04-2008, 01:27 PM	#13
Savage69 Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 39,294	[QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2726825]And you're nothing but a post compiler. :P[/QUOTE] Kleck are you going to the Game this year??

09-04-2008, 01:40 PM	#14
Klecko73isGod Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,750	[QUOTE=SMC;2726845]And don't forget, Kleck, Palin supports Jews for Jesus whose leader preached to Palin's congregation that terrorist acts against Jews is God's judgment against the Jews. Of course, Rev. Wright hates Jews, but that's just his personal opinion. ;)[/QUOTE] Jews for Jesus? You mean Christians? But seriously, I'm a Jew and I hate Jews. (But when I say it, it's funny. We're a very funny people, you know?)

09-04-2008, 03:04 PM	#16
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	This is a "fact?" : [I]He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest.[/I] Oh, so capital gains and dividend taxes on the non-wealthiest will be unaffected? Does he think only the "wealthiest" pay these cap gains and dividend taxes? People with high incomes but not a lot of wealth won't see income taxes or cap gains and div taxes rise? This guy is an idiot with no clue about basic economics or tax policies. I love these "Myth/Fact" articles, as if writing, in caps, the word "FACT" in front of an opinion gives it any validity at all. The attempt to make it seem like a "FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" that Obama has actually done anything in the Senate is particularly hilarious.

09-04-2008, 03:47 PM	#17
flushingjet Edit Status Guest Posts: n/a	[quote=Klecko73isGod;2726792]Conservatives are fine. Neo-cons are not conservative.[/quote] So, in your view who & what's a conservative. Sounds like paranoia from living in the South where everything you are is a minority of some kind! 40 years ago the original "neo-cons" were mostly Jewish Socialists. Using it in the perjorative is still considered a slur against Jews because Wolfie and Perle are always lumped in w/ Cheney. Kinda like calling someone n______ and redefining/qualifying it with hey, I dont mean the original 1928 I want to hang you from a tree, n______ version, I meant the new 2008 slightly less unkinder version.

09-04-2008, 09:29 PM	#18
Sharrow Veteran Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,710	[QUOTE=flushingjet;2727314]So, in your view who & what's a conservative. Sounds like paranoia from living in the South where everything you are is a minority of some kind! 40 years ago the original "neo-cons" were mostly Jewish Socialists. Using it in the perjorative is still considered a slur against Jews because Wolfie and Perle are always lumped in w/ Cheney. Kinda like calling someone n______ and redefining/qualifying it with hey, I dont mean the original 1928 I want to hang you from a tree, n______ version, I meant the new 2008 slightly less unkinder version.[/QUOTE] Lol, you think calling someone a neo-con with a negative tone is comparative to calling a black person the n word? I don't think the people using the word mean "jew" when they say it, I think they mean "idiot."

09-04-2008, 10:09 PM	#19
HDCentStOhio longing for the days of Ronald Reagan Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Long Island & Section 337 Posts: 4,859	[QUOTE=Sharrow;2728058]Lol, you think calling someone a neo-con with a negative tone is comparative to calling a black person the n word? I don't think the people using the word mean "jew" when they say it, I think they mean "idiot."[/QUOTE] Flushing is correct. You have no clue what you are talking about. Do a little research.

09-04-2008, 10:27 PM	#20
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;2728190]PS. You're a pretty smart guy, flushing .. I was very wrong in the PSL debate when I accused you of lacking original ideas .. I still think you're position on the PSL's was a little to Rand'ian for my taste, but you are definitely a thoughtful and engaging poster who [B]DOES NOT[/B] take his marching orders from anyone .. I really enjoy reading your opinions[/QUOTE] Agreed. Flushing is many many many things.... Dumb is [U]definitely[/U] not one of them. :yes: